Grimm Forum

(03-01-2017, 07:03 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-01-2017, 06:52 AM)Nicholas White Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-01-2017, 06:14 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]One last hurrah for Juliette.......sure, why not?

I agree, a total injustice has been done to the character. Everything we knew about her character was flushed down the toilet for one simple reason; so Adalind could look appealing.

I disagree. It was done to make Juilette a more interesting character. Adalind has always been a popular character. People was complaining about how boring Juilette's character was so the writers spiced up her storyline.

Rather there was or wasn't an injustice done to Juilette's character I can't say. The reason being she became more popular after becoming a Hexenbiest. Not to mention she began to actually do stuff.

Really? I'd really love to hear an explanation on how making Juliette a hexenbiest and then shuffling her off to HW was so much more interesting to the viewing audience than Adalind finding out she's carrying Nick's baby.

They barely focused on Nick and Adalind having a baby together. We get about 4x+ scenes involving Eve than we get of Kelly.

So rather it is or isn't more interesting wouldn't matter as the writers barely touch on it. Also the point is to make Juilette's character more entertaining and not really the show. Kelly would either have to do with Nick, Adalind or the show overall Storyline so it wouldn't do anything for Juilette's character.

The idea of making Juilette a Hexenbiest wasn't done to make the show more interesting as the show was good in that department. It was to make Bitsie character Juilette more interesting to those who found her character boring and useless.

(03-01-2017, 07:15 AM)Hexenadler Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-01-2017, 06:52 AM)Nicholas White Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-01-2017, 06:14 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]One last hurrah for Juliette.......sure, why not?

I agree, a total injustice has been done to the character. Everything we knew about her character was flushed down the toilet for one simple reason; so Adalind could look appealing.

I disagree. It was done to make Juilette a more interesting character. Adalind has always been a popular character. People was complaining about how boring Juilette's character was so the writers spiced up her storyline.

Yeah, sure...and then they KILLED HER. (Oh, wait. No they didn't. They had a clandestine organization of self-righteous douchebags brainwash her into an emotionless automaton in less than fourteen freakin' days.) This show has a curious knack of cooking up an idea with a lot of potential, before taking a dump on it.

Either way, the idiot who barfed out the suggestion of Nick hunkering down with Adalind should have been barred from the entertainment industry for life. Sadly, the damage has been done, and "Grimm" is now on its last legs.

So we are going to ignore the fact that a lot of fans hated Juilette's character. We are going to ignore the fact alot of people complained that Juilette character was useless, boring, Bitise couldn't act and annoying.

The show fixed those issues by giving Juilette an interesting Storyline that showed off her being strong. Thus some of the fans began to like her character. So rather you liked it or not is irrelevant as the point was to target the fans who found her character bad. Of the Female main characters Juilette was the least popular with the show wanting her to be the most popular among the females given she is suppose to be the Main, Main female lead. Thus I am pretty sure Bitsie gets paid more than Claire and Bree. However when negotiation time comes if Bitsie is making $60,000 dollars per episode while Claire and Bree are only making $30,000, Bree and Claire agents are going to argue Bree and Claire should be making just as much if not more than Bitsie since their characters are more popular thus hold more value to the show. For the producers to offset this claim they have to make Juilette's character more appealing than either Adalind and Rosalee. Thus why Bitsie gets paid more can be justified by the fact her character brings more value to the show. That can only happen though if her character is more appealing than the other 2.


As far as ratings on this show though they haven't change that much on average. Between season 1 and season 6 the average ratings only dropped by about 1 million viewers. That isn't bad at all. That is the norm among any supernatural/Scifi/Fantasy show. Not including HBO shows like GOT or True Blood. They usually start small in viewers and increase over time.

Regardless of how interesting the viewers may find her, I think they attempted to put Juliette in the forefront. HW and BC ended up being a dud to me but there's no doubt that they were advertised as the biggest stories in season 5. Eve was HW's top soldier and was in every episode since her return. She was often the one getting valuable intel that pushed the plot forward and they showed how much more powerful she was in comparison to everyone else. Even BC feared her.

This season has the plot revolving around her. She seems more connected to the overarching story than Nick does and was given a "purified soul" in the process. The endgame is setup to heavily rely on her. The ultimate mystery of the series has her name written all over it. She was even the one that discovered the date of whatever it is that's coming.

Quote:And one of my biggest pet peeves with Juliette is that she never gave Nick a chance but also maybe just maybe he really didn't and doesn't love her, most of us have seen a connection between Nick and Adalind since the beginning so maybe it's just that simple he tried his best to help her and she pretty much threw it back in his face and had sex with 2 different men in my opinion Nick finally traded up

All thru season 4 Nick was not able to look at Juliette with affection. Sure he said he had to learn to accept her like she learned to accept him. But he could not get past her being a hexenbiest. Every time she woged he would cringe. Even at the shop at the end. had he embraced her like she did to him things would have been different.

People accuse Juliette of leaving Nick yet they never mention that he was rejecting who she was. That is not a speculation. The last contact was the confrontation with the group trying to suppress her powers. Proving in season 4 they where unable to accept her.

I read comments of how Juliette did not give Nick time to adjust. That is not a valid excuse. Juliette did not need time to adjust to Nick being a zombie.

But the best proof that all of this was a poor excuse. Is that it did not take time for him to adjust to Adalind. He never had a problem of looking at her lovingly. When she woged he never once cringed. Even in season one he did not have a problem with Adalind's woge.

As for Juliette not giving Nick a chance. When he came back after his walk she came down stairs he was afraid of her. When she came back and she woged. He could not even look at her. He did not have to go through all of that kind of adjustment to be with Adalind.

To me that is the injustice They spend all this time providing reasons why Nick and Juliette have a conflict. A conflict that causes her to become hurt and vengeful. As soon as we accept that this is a Grimm vs Hexenbiest issue. Adalind enters and all of this Hexenbiest vs Grimm conflict issues are resolved.

(03-01-2017, 10:56 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]All thru season 4 Nick was not able to look at Juliette with affection. Sure he said he had to learn to accept her like she learned to accept him. But he could not get past her being a hexenbiest. Every time she woged he would cringe. Even at the shop at the end. had he embraced her like she did to him things would have been different.

People accuse Juliette of leaving Nick yet they never mention that he was rejecting who she was. That is not a speculation. The last contact was the confrontation with the group trying to suppress her powers. Proving in season 4 they where unable to accept her.

I read comments of how Juliette did not give Nick time to adjust. That is not a valid excuse. Juliette did not need time to adjust to Nick being a zombie.

But the best proof that all of this was a poor excuse. Is that it did not take time for him to adjust to Adalind. He never had a problem of looking at her lovingly. When she woged he never once cringed. Even in season one he did not have a problem with Adalind's woge.

As for Juliette not giving Nick a chance. When he came back after his walk she came down stairs he was afraid of her. When she came back and she woged. He could not even look at her. He did not have to go through all of that kind of adjustment to be with Adalind.

To me that is the injustice They spend all this time providing reasons why Nick and Juliette have a conflict. A conflict that causes her to become hurt and vengeful. As soon as we accept that this is a Grimm vs Hexenbiest issue. Adalind enters and all of this Hexenbiest vs Grimm conflict issues are resolved.

Juliette was involved with his police work research and she helped researched about his family and would not marry him if he was not completely open with her starting in season one. Juliette in season 3 knew all about his life as Grimm. IMO, in season 4, Juliette saw Nick not being able to have the same open relationship as sign he could no longer love her.

In season 5, Adalind was comfortable right away with living with Nick while he was hiding his life as a grimm from her possibly due to being raised with wesen with the culture that hiding wesen stuff was ok. Even now Nick is telling more to Eve than Adalind. I agree that he accepted that Adalind as a hexenbiest IMO since they both felt he had the right to keep secrets from her while Juliette always wanted a very open relationship that Nick felt he could no longer have with her and still does not have with Adalind. IMO this issue still could backfire, in season 6, on Nick with Adalind if she feels he has been endanger the children by hiding to much.

Even now Adalind would never expect Nick to kiss her in woged form. When she showed Nick she was a hexenbiest again she called her cell phone to her.

Quote:Juliette was involved with his police work research and she helped researched about his family and would not marry him if he was not completely open with her starting in season one. Juliette in season 3 knew all about his life as Grimm. IMO, in season 4, Juliette saw Nick not being able to have the same open relationship as sign he could no longer love her.

In season one, Nick having a secrete was the only reason she did not say yes to his proposal. By season three Juliette was on the fence about wanting to live the life of a Grimm. But she had no intention of leaving him.

Quote:Juliette saw Nick not being able to have the same open relationship as sign he could no longer love her.

There is noting you can point to that even implies that is true. In season four the only problem was Juliette had become a hexenbiest.
The sleeping with Adalind they got past that. Even the fact that Juliette did not tell Nick from the beginning was not shown to be a problem. There where a number of conversations and the only topic was her being a hexenbiest.

Quote:In season 5, Adalind was comfortable right away with living with Nick while he was hiding his life as a grimm from her possibly due to being raised with wesen with the culture that hiding wesen stuff was ok.

Nick was not hiding his life from Adalind. He was not even hiding information about his cases. The only thing he did not and has not told Adalind was about what he found in Germany. It was only in season one that trust and secrecy was ever an issue. Nick did not even care that Adalind was keeping the return of her powers from him.

Quote:Even now Adalind would never expect Nick to kiss her in woged form.

When Juliette asked Nick to kiss her it was after he could not look at her. It was more of her making a point then actually a request. We are not even sure if she would have kissed him. The point is Nick has never had a problem like at Adalind woged. He has not problem looking at Eve woged. So what was the issue when at the house she woged and Nick had to look away.

[quote='syscrash' pid='47842' dateline='1488439356']
onger love her.
[/quote]
There is noting you can point to that even implies that is true. In season four the only problem was Juliette had become a hexenbiest.
The sleeping with Adalind they got past that. Even the fact that Juliette did not tell Nick from the beginning was not shown to be a problem. There where a number of conversations and the only topic was her being a hexenbiest.
[/quote]

IMO Juliette the hexenbiest in season 4 was not comfortable with Nick being a Grimm.

1) Nick first thought Juliette when she was woged was Adalind pretending to be Juliette.

2) Juliette wanted to go with Nick to Henrietta. Nick wanted to go alone to her shows Nick was not as interested in an open relationship.

3) Unlike Juliette, Adalind in season 5 and 6, never woges unexpectedly in front of Nick or his friends. Adalind does not expect him to kiss her woged and to show him she is a hexenbiets again she calls for the phone. In season 3, Adalind woges unexpectedly and Nick complained immediately about it.

http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Bad_Luck/Transcript

Scene: Nick takes his gun out and points it at Juliette after seeing her woge.
Nick: You're not Juliette. You're Adalind. What did you do with her?
Juliette: [She retracts] Nick, it's me.
Nick: I don't believe you.
Juliette: Listen, you... you proposed to me on this couch. You had a ring. I said no. You hid it upstairs in the dresser drawer. I found it. Adalind would never know that.
Nick: [He lowers his gun] How did this happen?

Scene: Juliette comes downstairs and finds Nick asleep on the couch.
[Nick quickly wakes up]
Juliette: Not gonna kill you.
Nick: I got home late. I didn't want to wake you.
Juliette: Yeah, I'm sure it had nothing to do with me being a—
Nick: I want to talk to Henrietta.
Juliette: I'll call her.
Nick: I want to talk to her face-to-face.
Juliette: I should go with you.
Nick: I think it'd be best if I went alone.

Scene: Nick arrives home.
Nick: Juliette? I talked to Henrietta. I'm not giving up. We're gonna get through this.
Juliette: You can't change it.
Nick: I'm not gonna let it destroy what we have.
Juliette: I see the way you're looking at me.
Nick: Juliette...
Juliette: It's not the same. It'll never be the same.
Nick: You learned to understand me, now I have to learn how to understand you.
Juliette: [She walks up to Nick] Is that forever?
Nick: I'm not going anywhere.
Juliette: [She woges and Nick turns his head] Is this what you want to spend the rest of your life with? Is it?
Nick: Why are you doing this?
Juliette: If I'm the girl of your dreams, the least you could do is kiss me. Kiss me. You can't even look at me. This is what's forever. [She retracts and leaves]

---

[quote='syscrash' pid='47842' dateline='1488439356']
Nick was not hiding his life from Adalind. He was not even hiding information about his cases. The only thing he did not and has not told Adalind was about what he found in Germany. It was only in season one that trust and secrecy was ever an issue. Nick did not even care that Adalind was keeping the return of her powers from him.
[quote]

Juliette was not fully included in the Grimm world until the last show of season 2.

He hid the following in S5 from Adalind:
He cured Monroe with the stick.
He most of his work in the tunnels from her.
He had Monroe and Rosalee check the tunnels without her knowledge.
He hides dangerous items under the loft.
He told much less detail about his cases to Adalind and expected her not to be personally involved with his work as a cop or a Grimm.

Quote:IMO Juliette the hexenbiest in season 4 was not comfortable with Nick being a Grimm.

1) Nick first thought Juliette when she was woged was Adalind pretending to be Juliette.

2) Juliette wanted to go with Nick to Henrietta. Nick wanted to go alone to her shows Nick was not as interested in an open relationship.

3) Unlike Juliette, Adalind in season 5 and 6, never woges unexpectedly in front of Nick or his friends. Adalind does not expect him to kiss her woged and to show him she is a hexenbiets again she calls for the phone. In season 3, Adalind woges unexpectedly and Nick complained immediately about it.

For him to think Juliette was Adalind is natural since it would be the only explanation how Juliette could woge.
Nick not wanting Juliette to go to Henrietta's was he was not comfortable being around her. Remember he sleep on the couch. Compared to Adalind who gives him a lame excuse of being scared and he jumps into bed with her.

Adalind has been woging unexpectedly in front of Nick since season one. Not once did he look away or cringe at the sight of her. Each time he had no problem starring into her eyes.

Quote:Juliette: [She woges and Nick turns his head] Is this what you want to spend the rest of your life with? Is it?

This is the point why did he feel he needed to turn his head. He has never had to turn his head with Adalind.
His turning his head and not being able to look at her hurt her feelings.

Quote:Juliette: If I'm the girl of your dreams, the least you could do is kiss me. Kiss me. You can't even look at me. This is what's forever. [She retracts and leaves]

This was in reaction to her feeling being hurt. Like she said "You can't even look at me".
Her response shows she never intended for him to really kiss her. she was making a point. The point that he was rejecting her. The point that he was disgusted by the way she looked. A disgust he has never shown toward Adalind.

Quote:He hid the following in S5 from Adalind:
He cured Monroe with the stick.
He most of his work in the tunnels from her.
He had Monroe and Rosalee check the tunnels without her knowledge.
He hides dangerous items under the loft.

All of this is the same issue. He hide the existence of the stick from her. Because you want to break down the actions need to achieve that goal does not make it more then one issue. That would be like saying going home is multiple trips if you break it down by the turns you make.

He told less about his cases only because she did not ask about his cases. Not once did not refuse to talk about a case.

Nick expressly dumped Juliette in the finale when he told her he was done and to 'get out'. That was after she had done a lot of damage. Before that he was still chasing after her. Juliette never gave Nick time to adjust and go through the motions. Of course when something bad happenes the first reflex is denial followed by the need to 'fix' it. Personally I think Nick reacted as humanly as possible to the situation coupled with the fact that he was a Grimm. Juliette was woging left and right trying to give him a crash course on dealing with your new hexenbiest girlfriend so obviously he showed revulsion which hurt her even more. I think over time Nick would've dealt with it and stand by her, he did say so himself.

Nick was never that way with Adalind because he saw her as an adversary and it wasn't personal. He saw her as just another dangerous wesen. By the time they were together Adalind had suppressed her hexenbiest. And when her hexenbiest came back Nick did say they had Kelly to think about now so he wasn't going to hurt her. And I think he'd begun to like her after all he slept with her again knowing she was now a hexenbiest.

So I think in the end it was misunderstanding that drove them apart, Juliette quickly assumed rejection and thing went downhill from there.

Quote:Nick expressly dumped Juliette in the finale when he told her he was done and to 'get out'. That was after she had done a lot of damage. Before that he was still chasing after her. Juliette never gave Nick time to adjust and go through the motions. Of course when something bad happenes the first reflex is denial followed by the need to 'fix' it. Personally I think Nick reacted as humanly as possible to the situation coupled with the fact that he was a Grimm. Juliette was woging left and right trying to give him a crash course on dealing with your new hexenbiest girlfriend so obviously he showed revulsion which hurt her even more. I think over time Nick would've dealt with it and stand by her, he did say so himself.

Nick was never that way with Adalind because he saw her as an adversary and it wasn't personal. He saw her as just another dangerous wesen. By the time they were together Adalind had suppressed her hexenbiest. And when her hexenbiest came back Nick did say they had Kelly to think about now so he wasn't going to hurt her. And I think he'd begun to like her after all he slept with her again knowing she was now a hexenbiest.

So I think in the end it was misunderstanding that drove them apart, Juliette quickly assumed rejection and thing went downhill from there.

It not a misunderstanding but a fact that your are being rejected if. The one who is suppose to love you. Turns there head away from you. rather sleep on the couch. There only thought is to change you from what you are. He tried to force Juliette to take the suppression. Adalind had to convince him to let her take it. That is not a speculation. That is proof of rejection.

How is Juliette's woging a crash course in dealing. He has dealt with Adalind a half dozen times where she has woged. There where times when he even made a joke of it. So just what did he need time to get use to with Juliette.

You say when something bad happens the first reflex is denial. Where was Juliette's denial when Nick became a zombie. It would be different if Nick had never seen a hexenbiest. But he knew on very well. He has seen her woge close up and in his face.

If Nick could adjust to Adalind as a hexenbiest because she was an adversary. Then why did that not work for Juliettte when she became and adversary.

The point is for every justification made for why there was conflict between Nick and Juliette. Are not a problem between Nick and Adalind. For every reason given why Nick is with Adalind is a conflict with Nick and Juliette.

To me the show should have made Nick accept Juliette but make Juliette become hungry with power. But to pair him up with someone that is the same as what he is rejecting. Makes Nick seem hypocritical. That is does not bother Eve makes her seem naive.

(03-02-2017, 03:40 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Nick expressly dumped Juliette in the finale when he told her he was done and to 'get out'. That was after she had done a lot of damage. Before that he was still chasing after her. Juliette never gave Nick time to adjust and go through the motions. Of course when something bad happenes the first reflex is denial followed by the need to 'fix' it. Personally I think Nick reacted as humanly as possible to the situation coupled with the fact that he was a Grimm. Juliette was woging left and right trying to give him a crash course on dealing with your new hexenbiest girlfriend so obviously he showed revulsion which hurt her even more. I think over time Nick would've dealt with it and stand by her, he did say so himself.

Nick was never that way with Adalind because he saw her as an adversary and it wasn't personal. He saw her as just another dangerous wesen. By the time they were together Adalind had suppressed her hexenbiest. And when her hexenbiest came back Nick did say they had Kelly to think about now so he wasn't going to hurt her. And I think he'd begun to like her after all he slept with her again knowing she was now a hexenbiest.

So I think in the end it was misunderstanding that drove them apart, Juliette quickly assumed rejection and thing went downhill from there.

It not a misunderstanding but a fact that your are being rejected if. The one who is suppose to love you. Turns there head away from you. rather sleep on the couch. There only thought is to change you from what you are. He tried to force Juliette to take the suppression. Adalind had to convince him to let her take it. That is not a speculation. That is proof of rejection.

How is Juliette's woging a crash course in dealing. He has dealt with Adalind a half dozen times where she has woged. There where times when he even made a joke of it. So just what did he need time to get use to with Juliette.

You say when something bad happens the first reflex is denial. Where was Juliette's denial when Nick became a zombie. It would be different if Nick had never seen a hexenbiest. But he knew on very well. He has seen her woge close up and in his face.

If Nick could adjust to Adalind as a hexenbiest because she was an adversary. Then why did that not work for Juliettte when she became and adversary.

The point is for every justification made for why there was conflict between Nick and Juliette. Are not a problem between Nick and Adalind. For every reason given why Nick is with Adalind is a conflict with Nick and Juliette.

To me the show should have made Nick accept Juliette but make Juliette become hungry with power. But to pair him up with someone that is the same as what he is rejecting. Makes Nick seem hypocritical. That is does not bother Eve makes her seem naive.

Point taken, I guess what you're saying is Nick didn't love Juliette enough to accept who she became. Meaning he never loved her that much to begin with seeing he had no problem accepting Adalind. Juliette becoming a hexebniest gave him an easy out.