(03-01-2017, 10:18 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2017, 10:11 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2017, 09:56 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2017, 09:22 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Juliette had her entire life obliterated so that Adalind would look much more appealing to Nick.
Eve/Juliette seems to have her emotions under control and no one in her family or childhood friends has been hurt. Why is Eve/Juliette still with the scooby team? The show seems to want her obsessed with cloth. Does that make sense to you?
I'm not talking about one or two specific events, Mary, nor am I saying Adalind is better than Eve. What I am saying is the series has done a serious injustice to Juliette's character.
I agree that in season 4 a large number fans where unhappy with what happen to Juliette and during that season is the largest drop in ratings by far. My question is do you see as what they are doing to Juliette in season 6 as a path to fixing some of these issues.
In my opinion, I haven't seen them fixing any issues where she is concerned.
Juliette has been dealt a bad hand and I defended her during the cat-scratch fever despite how awful that whole arc was from the beginning. I didn't think Nick should've dumped her because she didn't do anything wrong. I thought he should've dumped her for her safety. The first two seasons were full of reasons why Nick should not have stuck with Juliette but that was all on him and not her.
However, you said it yourself OP. Juliette went too far. She has to be held responsible for what she did once she became a Hexenbiest. Juliette burned the trailer. Think about how fandom would react if Lois Lane or one of Batman's girlfriends destroyed the Fortress of Solitude or the Batcave. She didn't care whether that bullet hit Monroe or not. He was saved because Hank tackled him which is something that she couldn't predict. The kicker is her consciously sending that message to Kelly to set her up for an ambush. We saw her sit upstairs and do nothing while Kelly was being attacked. We know how powerful she is. She could've darted downstairs to try and intervene once she heard the fighting. This led to her death and a reaction that we've never seen from Nick at any other time in the series.
None of this means she couldn't be an interesting character. All of the things I mentioned had the potential to make her the most fascinating character in the series but that was ruined when she became someone else. It was so absurd and such a contrivance to get the group to immediately work with her again.
It wasn't just about Juliette becoming a Hexenbiest. It had more to do with her actions after becoming one. I have no doubt that Wu would get similar treatment if he were to go off the deep end. He was turned into a Wesen against his will and unlike Juliette wasn't even conscious of what he was doing. He has every reason to go off the deep end himself. Wu decided to accept it instead of lash out at everyone although I didn't blame Juliette for doing that at first. It was the escalation of her actions that caused the problem.
The Eve persona only shows that the Hexenbiest isn't inherently bad. It shows that she was capable of using it for good all along. Juliette made the decision to be vindictive and join up with Kenneth. She has to blamed for her actions because Adalind is responsible for what she did following Renard's orders. I still think Renard is the character that is given more of a pass than anyone but he was interesting, though not lately, which is why he doesn't receive the same amount of vitriol.
(03-01-2017, 09:22 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2017, 08:57 AM)Grimmbiest11 Wrote: [ -> ]Unless you mean by not getting the guy and the baby it was an injustice?
IMO, Nick is not a prize to be won here. I find it an even greater insult to Juliette that that is all she's about. In other words, she's Nick's squeeze and egg donor to his baby.
That's not what I'm saying at all. Juliette had her entire life obliterated so that Adalind would look much more appealing to Nick.
I doubt that, Juliette had her entire life obliterated because the writers wanted to take her character to a new place. Adalind and Nick also had bad blood. He still didn't like her that much in 5x01 when she told him not hate him anymore for the sake of their son. I think what made her appealing to Nick was the fact that Nick felt needed, she gave him room to throw around his testosterone. Men want to feel needed.
(03-01-2017, 04:40 AM)Kwu9888 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2017, 12:11 AM)bj123 Wrote: [ -> ]In my view, I believe there is total injustice done to Juliette's character in Grimm. She was in love with Nick, understanding and supporting him all the way. She has turned into Hexenbiest because of those side effects or whatever while trying to help Nick (becoming Grimm Again). I understand she has gone far too much when it comes to Kelly's death. But one should understand its not real her (at least Nick should better know this), its the Hexenbiest in her. She should have got more protection, more love and support from him, which she dint get. Her hatredness towards Adalind is reasonable after all what she has done to her and her boyfriend Nick since the start of the season 1.
Its Adalind who took grimm powers away from Nick and in the process of making him grimm again Juliette had become Hexenbiest, who is held responsible for betraying Nick and his mother. I think its Adalind who should get all the blame (I know that she has done this to get to Diana), if she hadn't taken grimm powers away from him none of this would have happend. Instead i see that Nick is living happily with Adalind (why? because she delivered Kelly. What if another Hexenbiest pretends herself to be Adalind, physically gets involved with him and delivers a baby named "Marie". Is Nick going to love her too. (no wonder this might happen
)).
I understand that its for kelly at the first, but he started loving her which shouldnt have happend. She has so much negative shades in her. If something wrong happens to her, she will not hesitate to destroy others in the process getting what she wants. She takes revenge even on innocent (she made Juliette went into coma when Nick took away her powers). and now we see that she is loving and happliy enjoying family life with Nick.The one (Juliette /the new Eve)who truley loved Nick, is suffering so much inside. and we see that she still is in love with Nick and it seems Nick doesnt care about it anymore.
Whether I like Nadalind or not I am really getting a little tired of the poor little Juliette act. She had every chance to be with Nick even after being made a hexenbiest, which she decide to do even though Nick kept saying no. She is the one who left him this is something that everyone seems to just let slide. She was never forced to do anything she did she didn't go to any of her friends for help she went to Sean for goodness!! She is the one who threw away her life with Nick a few times actually again as I've said before she refused his request to marry him, she completely embraced being a hexenbiest she.even said so to Nick, who by the way has had pretty crappy life lately himself but he didn't do the things that Juliette did to the people who loved him. Let's remember all the time Nick spent trying to find and help her he said he would never hurt and he didn't no matter what terrible things she did to the people he loves. I'm so tired of people saying poor Juliette she is a product of her own making in most part. At least Adalind has told the people she hurt she is sorry and asked for forgiveness from all of them. Never heard that from Juliette all ahe does is blame Eve that's not taking any responsibility for anything.
She turned away from all the people who truly loved her and tried to actually kill them all at one time or another. So forgive me if I feel like the woman who was instrumental in having Nicks mother be killed is having a hard time right now just don't buy it. I understand things have happened to her that shouldn't have but again she did not really want help or she wouldnt have turned away so completely from Nick. That is like saying my childhood was just awful so it's OK if I kill my parents or other people who I felt didn't help me really don't think so.
After this latest rant of mine I promise to never discuss this subject again
I agree with you that Juliette dint use her chance to be with Nick, which Adalind utilised in better way (Rather i say she created one). Juliette was ready for the side effects because all she wanted is to do some good to Nick. She said she was afraid to go to anyone and that since sean's monther is Hexenbiest she thought she will find a way. After becoming Hexabiest, she couldnt control her emotions well. she lost her sense in good/bad and Evil in her has dominated her true self. All we see is Juliette betrayed Nick and his monther, she tried to kill her friends etc., but its her inner Hexabiest who has dominated her.which she could have controlled well (like Adalind) if she was born Hexenbiest.
Eve now i started relaizing what she has done and she knows it very well that the damage she has done cant be amended. If she starts with Sorry then definetly she will end up saying she still have feelings for Nick (which we see in couple of occasions). All she is trying to do is suppress her emotions to achive bigger cause. If Adalind was in Juliette's place, yeah then definitely she would have said sorry and would have played well to gain attention and sympathy (how she has done previously with Sean and Hank).
(03-01-2017, 10:47 AM)Grimmbiest11 Wrote: [ -> ]I doubt that, Juliette had her entire life obliterated because the writers wanted to take her character to a new place.
You mean as the de-feminized soldier for HW? Is that the new place you're speaking of?
(03-01-2017, 10:47 AM)Grimmbiest11 Wrote: [ -> ]Adalind and Nick also had bad blood. He still didn't like her that much in 5x01 when she told him not hate him anymore for the sake of their son. I think what made her appealing to Nick was the fact that Nick felt needed, she gave him room to throw around his testosterone. Men want to feel needed.
This is good, insightful. In some ways this hearkens back to my Juliette was slumming theory, which I still think makes more sense than anything else anyone has espoused about these two. Clearly Juliette was head and shoulders above Nick, by any measure in regard to a man woman pairing. She certainly did not need him for a darn thing. You are so very correct men want to feel needed. It is a generational challenge now with women with high paying jobs, better educations, a drawer full of toys, full acceptance socially of single motherhood. Men are now disposable commodity objects. Adalind, changed that equation for Nick. I never thought of that. Great insight.
(03-01-2017, 10:55 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]You mean as the de-feminized soldier for HW? Is that the new place you're speaking of?
I am not sure that skin tight leather and come
furry-kitten me wigs is exactly de-feminizing a woman - just sayin'.
Seriously the outfits were so incongruent with the persona, it was bizarre. I suspect Bitsie had a lot of input on it and just wanted a wig collection.
(03-01-2017, 10:28 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]None of this means she couldn't be an interesting character. All of the things I mentioned had the potential to make her the most fascinating character in the series but that was ruined when she became someone else.
I once wrote a piece of fanfiction speculating what might have happened if Juliette hadn't turned completely evil. You're welcome to take a look for yourself.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12236146/1/...e-Darkness
(03-01-2017, 11:21 AM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]Seriously the outfits were so incongruent with the persona, it was bizarre. I suspect Bitsie had a lot of input on it and just wanted a wig collection.
I suspect the brilliant brainfarts had more of a say in Bitsie's wardrobe than she did. I've seen the way she dresses in real life and that's nothing like Eve.
(03-01-2017, 11:33 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2017, 11:21 AM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]Seriously the outfits were so incongruent with the persona, it was bizarre. I suspect Bitsie had a lot of input on it and just wanted a wig collection.
I suspect the brilliant brainfarts had more of a say in Bitsie's wardrobe than she did. I've seen the way she dresses in real life and that's nothing like Eve.
Interesting...then if men did this, they are idiots.