(03-02-2017, 10:51 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I can't fault her honesty, Mary. She said she couldn't say yes until she felt Nick could let her back in again. I don't think she ever felt he took her to that level of trust. If you notice, he never asked her to marry him again. He may have been saying it without saying it that he couldn't take her to that level of trust.
I am believe in honestly too. She could have said I would never marry anyone that was not open with me. I know how your Aunt's death affected you, would you like to us to try counseling. Without it, I am not sure we can get to a place where I could say yes.
(03-02-2017, 11:01 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Would you really rely on that poll for accurate figures, Mary?
NBC does plus I am sure they paid for professional polling too that we do not see.
(03-02-2017, 08:22 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Just as a general observation, I get the impression from many here that Juliette should have accepted Nick's proposal. Why do you all feel that way?
Hi Iruk,
Just in general, you must chose your source of moral judgement. I can recall conversations with some of my buddies who wanted to engage in things intimate but were told "NO until the ring is on my finger."
Nick bought a ring in the very first episode. A "virtuous" would want it on her finger before moving in (shacking up).
The "sexual revolution" of the 60's, 70's and 80's made changed opinions and behaviors. Yet all these revolutionary "changes" have been around since the beginning of time.
I realize you see nothing desirable in Nick, but IMO Juliette did and she wanted to marry him "some day." IMO if the series began with the wedding and then the first home together there would have been a better dynamic. The WOWs, BC, HW all could have been written with them married. Case in point, viewers did mot complain about MonRosalee.
If Juliette said yes it would have given her character reason to exist. Her no was evidence that the writers have little regard for marriage, family and children. It was odd that Nick only said "for my Mother" when he terminated Kenneth. He did see the messy bed and Kenneth and asked about it.
N G
(03-02-2017, 11:10 AM)New Guy Wrote: [ -> ]If Juliette said yes it would have given her character reason to exist. Her no was evidence that the writers have little regard for marriage, family and children. N G
On the contrary, New Guy, Juliette's response shows a great deal of regard for the sanctity of marriage. She's telling Nick that honesty should be a condition of their marriage. She is right. There should be no secrets between them.
I have always felt Juliette got the short end of the stick. Beginning with episode 1 Nick started staying up nights hiding out in the trailer, never explaining why. Weird starred with a killing on her sidewalk, home invasions, abduction, losing all memory of Nick, meeting his strange new friends, finding out about the new world, etc. She asked Nick to be a Grimm to save his friends. She revealed herself to Nick, fearing he would kill her, and he just left her alone in the house, disappearing for days. Frankly, in the real world she would have been gone before she got her memory back. People say they hated her because at first she was too bland, then because she was too hot to handle.
(03-02-2017, 11:24 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]On the contrary, New Guy, Juliette's response shows a great deal of regard for the sanctity of marriage. She's telling Nick that honesty should be a condition of their marriage. She is right. There should be no secrets between them.
She also said someday to marriage like they were on the path to marriage. Do you feel uncomfortable with counseling? IMO they were not on the path for marriage or a friendly split without intervention.
(03-02-2017, 11:24 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2017, 11:10 AM)New Guy Wrote: [ -> ]If Juliette said yes it would have given her character reason to exist. Her no was evidence that the writers have little regard for marriage, family and children. N G
On the contrary, New Guy, Juliette's response shows a great deal of regard for the sanctity of marriage. She's telling Nick that honesty should be a condition of their marriage. She is right. There should be no secrets between them.
Yes, but it also doomed their relationship. Juliette raised doubts that Nick purposefully ignored until he was forced to alleviate at the end and by then bigger issues had already set in, in the form of Juliette's life being threatened on more than one occasion after his aunt warned him. They were simply never in sync after the rejected marriage proposal. Juliette looked at Nick and found him wanting but instead of leaving him, she stayed, much to her detriment. Nick wasn't going to get better or be better. He relatively good man but he was never good for Juliette once he became a Grimm.
She bent herself into a pretzel until she broke, all for him. Refusing the proposal wasn't just the right thing to do at the time, Juliette needed to follow through and leave him for good because he already showed he didn't value her all that much in the first place (after he became a Grimm).
(03-02-2017, 10:13 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2017, 09:24 AM)Nicholas White Wrote: [ -> ]People shipped Nadalind way before Adalind became pregnant. That is a huge reason Nadalind was put together. It was a popular ship already no need for the writers to sale it to people when people were already sold on it. The Ship was already sold to the audience which is why they did it.
Let me point out another quote of yours:
Quote:The idea of making Juilette a Hexenbiest wasn't done to make the show more interesting as the show was good in that department. It was to make Bitsie character Juilette more interesting to those who found her character boring and useless.
First off, I don't recall any figures anywhere showing that the Nick/Adalind ship was so much more popular than the Nick/Juliette ship.
And *if* that's the case, then I don't know why the creative team waited until season 5 to put them together.
Also, the idea of making Juliette a hexenbiest was more than likely planned way ahead of time and not, as you put it, to make Juliette more interesting to those who found her character boring and useless.
The ratings for Grimm have never been outstanding. That is one of the reasons why it's been a staple on Friday nights. It's managed to hold a small audience but that's as far as it goes. There are hundreds of millions of people who could watch the program that do not.
First off if you read my post correctly you would see I said Nadalind was already a popular ship which is was based on Tumblr, twitter, youtube and many other sites. People shipped them way before Adalind became pregnant. Most of the comments you hear now about Nadalind people say they shipped them since season 1.
No where in my comment did I say it was more popular than Nick x Juilette. That is what you said not me. What I said was Adalind's character was popular than Juilette which she was/is based on polls about Grimm character popularity. Youtube comments, Facebook comments, etc.
Juilette character was hated since season 1 and they didn't make her into a hexenbiest until season 4. Thus it wasn't planned before the comments about Juilette being Boring, weak and useless were made about her character those comments were made since Season 1. Seasn 4 wouldn't have been planned until season 3 was over. Thus your argument is invalid.
Your last point holds no value to what I was saying about ratings decreasing.
(03-02-2017, 11:33 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2017, 11:24 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]On the contrary, New Guy, Juliette's response shows a great deal of regard for the sanctity of marriage. She's telling Nick that honesty should be a condition of their marriage. She is right. There should be no secrets between them.
She also said someday to marriage like they were on the path to marriage. Do you feel uncomfortable with counseling? IMO they were not on the path for marriage or a friendly split without intervention.
Depends on the counseling, Mary. In the case of Nick and Juliette, should Juliette go to counseling if things haven't changed between her and Nick? I may be interpreting your posts incorrectly, but you seem to be implying that Nick changed his ways and was open with Juliette. It's Juliette who's not budging. Is that your meaning?
(03-02-2017, 11:36 AM)Nicholas White Wrote: [ -> ]Juilette character was hated since season 1 and they didn't make her into a hexenbiest until season 4. Thus it wasn't planned before the comments about Juilette being Boring, weak and useless were made about her character those comments were made since Season 1. Seasn 4 wouldn't have been planned until season 3 was over. Thus your argument is invalid.
*This* is your opinion as it was your opinion that they changed her character because the fans found her boring. There is absolutely nothing stating that anywhere. However, you're into the polls. If you have an article that backs up your opinin that Juliette was changed because the fans found her boring, I'd love to read it.
(03-02-2017, 11:36 AM)Nicholas White Wrote: [ -> ]Your last point holds no value to what I was saying about ratings decreasing.
Let me put it to you in another way then. The rating has decreased dramatically among the 18-49 crowd. That is the demographic NBC is most interested in. You can plaud on all you want about 4 million or 5 million people watching the show, but if it isn't the targeted demographic, it will eventually face cancellation.
(03-02-2017, 11:37 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2017, 11:33 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2017, 11:24 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]On the contrary, New Guy, Juliette's response shows a great deal of regard for the sanctity of marriage. She's telling Nick that honesty should be a condition of their marriage. She is right. There should be no secrets between them.
She also said someday to marriage like they were on the path to marriage. Do you feel uncomfortable with counseling? IMO they were not on the path for marriage or a friendly split without intervention.
Depends on the counseling, Mary. In the case of Nick and Juliette, should Juliette go to counseling if things haven't changed between her and Nick? I may be interpreting your posts incorrectly, but you seem to be implying that Nick changed his ways and was open with Juliette. It's Juliette who's not budging. Is that your meaning?
No. that is not it. Nick was not open with either Juliette or Adalind but Adalind acts like that is normal in her world.
I meant marriage counseling could have make them see they could not work out and split on good terms since Nick will not open up to any women.
(03-02-2017, 11:43 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2017, 11:37 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2017, 11:33 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2017, 11:24 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]On the contrary, New Guy, Juliette's response shows a great deal of regard for the sanctity of marriage. She's telling Nick that honesty should be a condition of their marriage. She is right. There should be no secrets between them.
She also said someday to marriage like they were on the path to marriage. Do you feel uncomfortable with counseling? IMO they were not on the path for marriage or a friendly split without intervention.
Depends on the counseling, Mary. In the case of Nick and Juliette, should Juliette go to counseling if things haven't changed between her and Nick? I may be interpreting your posts incorrectly, but you seem to be implying that Nick changed his ways and was open with Juliette. It's Juliette who's not budging. Is that your meaning?
No. that is not it. Nick was not open with either Juliette or Adalind but Adalind acts like that is normal in her world.
I meant marriage counseling could have make them see they could not work out and split on good terms since Nick will not be open up to any women.
It'd be interesting to see if Nick would even attend counseling.