Why is it so hard to believe that Diana called Nick Dad after twenty years? She called Kelly her "other mommy" and we know how she feels about Adalind. In all honesty, my mind went to Nick when she said that before MLG linked what the writers said.
Diana was in the Grimm trailer. Her mother's stuff was in there as well. She closed the Grimm book to end the show. The little we saw of Diana at the end was a reference to her relationship with Nick and not Renard.
(04-17-2017, 08:30 AM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ]Eventually it reaches the point of not believing something just because you don't want it to be true. Hating the way things are is different than convincing yourself they didn't happen. If you decide what the writers say has no meaning, then you can change whatever happened in the series to fit a preconceived notion of how it should have been. I suppose I'm lucky in that I like the way things turned out. For those who didn't, I guess that pill has become hard to swallow.
Well, in order to state what something of this nature, one would have to be able to know what another's thinking. As that's not possible, it really just comes down to an opinion, not really relevant either way in proving anything conclusively.
(04-17-2017, 04:02 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2017, 08:30 AM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ]Eventually it reaches the point of not believing something just because you don't want it to be true. Hating the way things are is different than convincing yourself they didn't happen. If you decide what the writers say has no meaning, then you can change whatever happened in the series to fit a preconceived notion of how it should have been. I suppose I'm lucky in that I like the way things turned out. For those who didn't, I guess that pill has become hard to swallow.
Well, in order to state what something of this nature, one would have to be able to know what another's thinking. As that's not possible, it really just comes down to an opinion, not really relevant either way in proving anything conclusively.
I am lost. What are we talking about now in Grimm?
(04-17-2017, 07:15 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2017, 04:52 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]You know, Mary, I'm not real convinced either. I see syscrash's point. Diana referred to Renard as Daddy and Nick by his own name.
The other thing is a little more basic. If Diana is grabbing the stick wouldn't it be natural to assume Nick is going with them anyway? After all he is the only one who can operate the stick. So why make a point of telling us he's coming when we already figured that?
Syscrash suggested that Nick left his family. G&K says that Nick and Adalind are still together and you are free to believe whatever you want. I am only copying from the links above so we can talk about them.
I don't think Nick left his family, so I disagree with that statement. I think Nick's with Adalind. They end up together, that's a given.
Diana's already given us a clue that Nick is heading the party by getting his stick, the stick he commands. It's not necessary to reinforce the idea that Mom and Dad are waiting if the Nick's the only one who can use the stick. Obviously he'd be waiting. I believe she's referring to her dad, Renard. I'm just going by the fact that Nick was never her dad.
I know there are assumptions that Diana got suddenly close enough to Nick to call him "Dad", and outrcries or surprise that that would be so hard to believe, etc. However, what's forgotten is that is an assumption. It's just as easily argued that Renard might be tagging along since he's now part of the big happy family. I don't know why one assumption is so much more valid than another.
(04-17-2017, 04:05 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2017, 04:02 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2017, 08:30 AM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ]Eventually it reaches the point of not believing something just because you don't want it to be true. Hating the way things are is different than convincing yourself they didn't happen. If you decide what the writers say has no meaning, then you can change whatever happened in the series to fit a preconceived notion of how it should have been. I suppose I'm lucky in that I like the way things turned out. For those who didn't, I guess that pill has become hard to swallow.
Well, in order to state what something of this nature, one would have to be able to know what another's thinking. As that's not possible, it really just comes down to an opinion, not really relevant either way in proving anything conclusively.
I am lost. What are we talking about now in Grimm?
This has nothing to do with Grimm. It's being pointed out that those of us who don't agree with the hallowed and 100% completely correct writing team just don't want to believe what's shown to us on the screen. The trouble is, nothing was really shown on the screen. What little bit we got was never shown.
(04-17-2017, 04:08 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know why one assumption is so much more valid than another.
Several shipper posters on both sides got a little more pushy than normal on this issue as if this was the only clue to what happens in Grimm for the next 20 years. This is a fantasy world where anyone can believe what you want. I ask that posters remember that I cannot control what the Grimm EP, writers or the fans in charge of the Grimm wiki say or do. I only bring it here to talk about.
I want to be friends with everybody.
(04-17-2017, 04:08 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Diana's already given us a clue that Nick is heading the party by getting his stick, the stick he commands. It's not necessary to reinforce the idea that Mom and Dad are waiting if the Nick's the only one who can use the stick. Obviously he'd be waiting. I believe she's referring to her dad, Renard. I'm just going by the fact that Nick was never her dad.
It may not be necessary but this show doesn't do subtlety. These writers, and a lot of writers to be fair, will assume that everything needs to be spelled out. That's probably even more likely to be the case in an epilogue for a series.
They wanted everyone to know who was going to be involved in this hunt and didn't want to leave anything up to interpretation. Though, it seems that failed.
This conversation is proof of it. MLG gave us links to answer who Diana was referring to as Dad. It was supposed to be a simple answer no matter what side we fall on. I don't think there's any more that can be done to convince anyone Diana was talking about Nick.
(04-17-2017, 04:46 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2017, 04:08 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know why one assumption is so much more valid than another.
Several shipper posters on both sides got a little more pushy than normal on this issue as if this was the only clue to what happens in Grimm for the next 20 years. This is a fantasy world where anyone can believe what you want. I ask that posters remember that I cannot control what the Grimm EP, writers or the fans in charge of the Grimm wiki say or do. I only bring it here to talk about.
I want to be friends with everybody.
I read all of the articles, Mary, but I have lingering doubts as well. That has nothing to do with what you posted because you went through a lot of trouble to put articles out there to support what was said. Kudos!
What I saw are the opinions of reviewers and not really anything from G&K.
Personally, I don't know why there's so much angst over some dissenting opinions. This isn't the first time people have doubted something. Juliette was branded a liar because she said she didn't know Kelly was going to be murdered. There are still hot debates over that and the character herself confirmed it!
(04-17-2017, 07:42 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know why one assumption is so much more valid than another.
Do you believe I am making up the articles as suggested by syscrash? If you think Nick and Adalind are still together in "The End" we are in an agreement. WesenZoo (Grimm wiki) and others might see more than me but I have not said I agree with everything that G&K are saying. If syscrash or anyone else does not agree with WesenZoo IMO they should contact him.
G&K were doing most of the talking especially around their views about Eve but everyone can have whatever opinion of the show they want. I will look into making that clearer.
(04-17-2017, 06:40 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2017, 04:08 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Diana's already given us a clue that Nick is heading the party by getting his stick, the stick he commands. It's not necessary to reinforce the idea that Mom and Dad are waiting if the Nick's the only one who can use the stick. Obviously he'd be waiting. I believe she's referring to her dad, Renard. I'm just going by the fact that Nick was never her dad.
It may not be necessary but this show doesn't do subtlety. These writers, and a lot of writers to be fair, will assume that everything needs to be spelled out. That's probably even more likely to be the case in an epilogue for a series.
They wanted everyone to know who was going to be involved in this hunt and didn't want to leave anything up to interpretation. Though, it seems that failed.
This conversation is proof of it. MLG gave us links to answer who Diana was referring to as Dad. It was supposed to be a simple answer no matter what side we fall on. I don't think there's any more that can be done to convince anyone Diana was talking about Nick.
Do you think Nick has been part of the Adalind, Kelly and Diana's life the last twenty years or not? In your opinion did Nick leave with Eve and move away? That is really the bigger questions many of us have been talking about. IMO Diana could have meant both dads to me.
(04-17-2017, 04:08 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2017, 07:15 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2017, 04:52 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]You know, Mary, I'm not real convinced either. I see syscrash's point. Diana referred to Renard as Daddy and Nick by his own name.
The other thing is a little more basic. If Diana is grabbing the stick wouldn't it be natural to assume Nick is going with them anyway? After all he is the only one who can operate the stick. So why make a point of telling us he's coming when we already figured that?
Syscrash suggested that Nick left his family. G&K says that Nick and Adalind are still together and you are free to believe whatever you want. I am only copying from the links above so we can talk about them.
I don't think Nick left his family, so I disagree with that statement. I think Nick's with Adalind. They end up together, that's a given.
Diana's already given us a clue that Nick is heading the party by getting his stick, the stick he commands. It's not necessary to reinforce the idea that Mom and Dad are waiting if the Nick's the only one who can use the stick. Obviously he'd be waiting. I believe she's referring to her dad, Renard. I'm just going by the fact that Nick was never her dad.
I know there are assumptions that Diana got suddenly close enough to Nick to call him "Dad", and outrcries or surprise that that would be so hard to believe, etc. However, what's forgotten is that is an assumption. It's just as easily argued that Renard might be tagging along since he's now part of the big happy family. I don't know why one assumption is so much more valid than another.
I wouldn't characterize a twenty year span of time as "suddenly close". That's more than enough time for Nick and Diana to bond enough that she might call him Dad. Leaving out indications given by the writers, certainly anything not spelled out in a completely literal fashion could be considered assumption. But from a storytelling perspective, I find fault in the notion that this scene would be referencing Sean. The thread of thematic logic would indicate that all things here point to Nick. The very fact that "Mom and Dad" are mentioned would seem to bear this out. It's a pointed statement, used to encapsulate Nick's family unity. In this one sentence, we're being told that Nick and Adalind are still together. We're being shown a familial bond between siblings as to shared parentage. And we're being told that Diana means as much to Nick as Kelly does. That line is really meant to show us how Nick views Diana, more than how Diana views Nick. The whole scene is about his legacy. All else becomes extraneous when you've got about a minute to tell a story.
Another aspect that has never been brought up is the fact that Diana actually lived/s with Nick even though she had/s an actual father daughter relationship with Sean. It stands to reason she would have a similar but reduced relationship with Nick through her bond with her mother and brother. Kelly has close to no such a relationship with Sean. He did for about a week or two if we're being generous before Adalind went back to the loft/Nick. I don't see Kelly referring to any man he has almost zero regular contact with as "dad". He knows Sean is Diana's father as much as Diana knows Nick is Kelly's but they've never fostered an actual relationship after Adalind left the mansion where as Diana spends almost equal amounts of time with Sean AND Nick. Sean promised to look after Kelly in the event of Nick dying but we know he's still alive so Sean's relationship only extends to his daughter and Adalind, as Diana's mother.