Grimm Forum

Quote:This forum reminds me of certain aspects of religion. There seems to be some fundamental acts of faith that are needed in order to accept the story line. Some expect us to simply believe Grimms are somehow a benevolent force. We are suppose to accept, as an article of faith, that police who do not follow the rule of law, violate their oath of office, believe in torture, do not follow Miranda rights, and execute prisoners are somehow justified.

If you openly question those articles of faith you are oft attacked as a heretic.

Is it really that complicated to understand the difference between the laws of man and the laws of nature. People are constantly passing judgment of wesen activities base on the laws of man. even Monroe, Rosale, and even bud understand and accept they as wesen are bound by the laws of nature. laws that over ride the laws of man. When the bauerschwein chef was poisoning blutbad Monroe was ready to kill the chef like his ancestors would have done. When buds lodge had their meeting a lot where in favor of having the Grimm cut of heads to seen a message. This is the life and mentality of wesen. You have never seen a single wesen ever
be shocked by a death. The only response ever shown the the need for revenge.

Yet so many constantly try and sight examples why this way of think is not indicative of all wesen. They also try and show how this is something wesen are trying to overcome.

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Quote:Diana is referred to Nick as Dad based both EP (G&K) so Nick has been active part of her life.

MaryLikesgrimm. G&K never said that or implied that Diana refereed to Nick as dad. You are just making things up to try and prove your point. I dare you to sight where they said that. You are using an opinion of posters and reviewers. contrary to current popular belief. there is no such things as alternate facts. You like a lot of posters have a bad habit of making things up.

(04-16-2017, 06:36 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]They also try and show how this is something wesen are trying to overcome.

Each season we have about 2 WOW stories where the wesen regretted killing but felt they had no choice in order to survive.

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(04-16-2017, 06:36 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]MaryLikesgrimm. G&K never said that or implied that Diana refereed to Nick as dad. You are just making things up to try and prove your point. I dare you to sight where they said that. You are using an opinion of posters and reviewers. contrary to current popular belief. there is no such things as alternate facts. You like a lot of posters have a bad habit of making things up.

I did like three times now. Please read them this time.

http://mashable.com/2017/03/31/grimm-ser...jdNjXFsaqc

At the end of the final episode, we get the sense that Nick and Adalind are still together. Is that fair?

JK and DG: Yes, that's fair.

Throughout this last season it kind of felt like Eve was switching back into Juliette mode, and that at some point she was going to proclaim her love to Nick, and try to get him back. Was that ever a possibility?

JK: Not in our minds.

http://tvline.com/2017/03/31/grimm-serie...interview/

TVLINE | But as we see in the flashforward, we see that Diana and Kelly are carrying on the Grimm work, and they mention that Adalind and Nick — as well as the triplets — are involved. What can you tell me about how everyone else ended up?
KOUF | They’re all just one big, happy family, fighting evil together.
GREENWALT |They’re all fighting the good fight, in one way or the other. Trubel’s definitely out there. She’s “have sword, will travel” for sure.

http://tvline.com/2017/03/31/grimm-serie...pisode-13/

Marie and Kelly task Nick with guarding the completed staff with his life from here on in. And “take care of my grandson,” Kelly adds. “I like his name.”

http://deadline.com/2017/03/grimm-series...202057358/

KOUF: The whole emotional ending turned out to be about family and the power of family. And [the ending] continues that idea that here are the two siblings working together with their family.

DEADLINE: Fans had been wondering what Nick and Juliette’s future would look like. Do you think they would’ve ended up together again?

GREENWALT: There are a lot of people who have a lot of opinions about that on both sides of that question. But I think that there was such a beautiful speech in the third to last episode in which Eve/Juliette says, “I wouldn’t go back if I could … We’ve all grown, we’re all different now than we were.” So I think that’s more realistic.

KOUF: I mean they’re friends, there’s something there. You don’t have to be married and sleeping together to have a good, happy relationship.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/04/01/g...-questions

IGN: I can only imagine how difficult it must have been to end a series like this. What are you most proud of in the way you brought everything to a close?

KOUF: I think it was ultimately about family and the power of family, and the support of family makes a huge difference in people's lives.

IGN: I imagine finding a satisfying ending for all these characters was tough, but Eve must have been particularly tricky after all these years. Why end her on her own journey, and why the decision to give her back her Hexenbiest powers instead of ending her as a human?

KOUF: We thought that she should stand alone without Nick. She's a powerful woman and she doesn't need a guy, and she found a purpose without having a particular relationship. She was in for the fight. She realized that's what she was motivated to do.

http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Nick_Burkhardt

Nick Burkhardt
Actor: David Giuntoli
Gender: Male
Type: Grimm
Relationships: Adalind Schade, wife
Kelly Schade-Burkhardt, son
Diana Schade-Renard, stepdaughter

Quote:Mrtrick you are making fanciful assumptions. If Nick was such a major part of their lives for twenty years. Then why would he have not made the entry recounting one of the biggest events in their lives. Why would Nick wait twenty years to recount the event to Kelly so he could record it. After six seasons we know Nick takes on the guilt for everything that happens. With this incident he show everyone he knows die. Yes they are alive now but he did see them die. The most natural response would be to separate himself from putting those close to him in danger.

Mrtrick’s interpretation of the future isn’t any more fanciful than the show’s finale. A big bad seemingly unstoppable until two dead Grimm show up and he’s suddenly downsized from a big gulp to a complimentary paper cup. Death and mayhem until a little stick combines with a big stick then not a single paper cut requiring a band-aide. The final scene was designed to continue the happily ever after theme, nothing more.

Considering that Nick’s friends/collaborators are well known in Portland, and BC shared their identities around the globe, how is anyone safer simply because Nick leaves? Portland has been a hotbed for violent Wesen for six seasons, and suddenly it doesn’t have need of a Grimm/defender? Diana didn’t say Eve is waiting or Trubel is waiting, she said mom and dad are waiting. Adalind and Renard took up the reins after Nick’s departure? It could be that Nick didn’t tell the others about the alternate timeline where they all died until many years later. It’s not as though he needed to get the word out so other Grimm would know how to defeat Zerstörer.

The underlying theme that Nick is not a traditional Grimm encompasses more than him having an aversion to the kill first ask questions later mentality. Nick also defied tradition by refusing to give up friends and family. That everyone survived unscathed would reinforce his commitment to family, not cause him to abandon it.

(04-16-2017, 05:17 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:I suppose you're right, in that I'm an optimist. Heck, I'd even go as far as to color myself a romantic. But I'm also extrapolating a narrative logic based on where things are at in the epilogue and statements made by the writers. Nick is meant to be a post modern Grimm, fundamentally changing the nature of what a Grimm is. An open idea of a once closed system. Beyond that, certain events are all but written in stone. Benchmarks that must happen, to ever reach that final moment in the trailer. Nick and Adalind are still together and in the fight. Their identities are both well represented in the trailer. Speaking to a unity of purpose and shared familial burden that they hadn't yet found time to explore with each other on screen. Kelly and Diana are well adjusted, close to their parents, and possessed of a full knowledge of the Grimm life. This would indicate a duality in their upbringing. Both basic, expected normalities and a comprehensive education about the Wesen world and a Grimm's place there in. The trailer is well appointed, indicating they are doing well financially. Given Nick's cop salary, this would seem to point to Adalind's return to law. Unless one surmised that it was a communal effort. Though, given the personal nature of the trailer, this seems unlikely. The triplets are engaged in the fight. Indicating that the extended family has maintained a strong bond. And informing us that the children have all grown up together, well versed in the Grimm legacy. All with a drive to serve. Which must be instilled in them.

Mrtrick you are making fanciful assumptions. If Nick was such a major part of their lives for twenty years. Then why would he have not made the entry recounting one of the biggest events in their lives. Why would Nick wait twenty years to recount the event to Kelly so he could record it. After six seasons we know Nick takes on the guilt for everything that happens. With this incident he show everyone he knows die. Yes they are alive now but he did see them die. The most natural response would be to separate himself from putting those close to him in danger.

From season one there was always some threat to Nick and those close to him. Why would that decrease. There would always be wesen who want to live up to their heritage. Of every Blutbod we have seen they all still hunt. Even Monroes dad still hunts.
Even your comments about Diana are not shown in her actions when she entered the trailer. She was still as pushy, and demanding. She did not ask kelly or inform him. She told him what he was going to do. She could have walked over and closed the book. But no she used her powers. That shows she still uses her powers frivolously. We also know Diana has a tendency to use excessive force. The first thing she reaches for is the staff. the most powerful thing in the trailer. That is not something you reach for if you plan to subdue someone. Even her comment of come on we have wesen to kill.

The narration pointed out Nick never turned away from his responsibility as a Grimm. Of the Grimm we have seen on the show. That does not sound as if he spent twenty years have a normal family life. If he is going after wesen, wesen mentality says their relatives will come after him. If makes sense that Adalind and Sean protected the kids while Nick did his Grimm thing. The only why you assumptions would work would be if wesen life was living by the rules of man and not following the rules of nature.

I wouldn't characterize my assertions as "fanciful", exactly. That would be something like saying, "And they all drove around in a cool Van, like Scooby Do." As to why Nick never wrote down this story before, we can't be sure what he wrote or didn't write. He could have made a more basic entry, about the staff and Zerstorer and what they were. But the nearly dreamlike nature of events may have caused him to refrain from any, more florid, interpretation. Given the fact that Zerstorer was a unique entity, this information would have been of little use to later Grimm, so he may have felt no need to document it. It became a bedtime story for the kiddies. If this is a first, or at the very least, early entry by Kelly in the Grimm logs, it speaks to the fact that it's a story recounted to him many times over the years. A part of his closeness to his father. He wanted to impart the feeling it gave him, about his family and what it means for him to be a Grimm. The very fact that it marks a departure from the traditional nature of entries, tells us that this story has become a well worn folk tale from his childhood. A defining feature.

As to why Nick, in the face of such a harrowing experience, would choose to pull his love ones closer to his Grimm life instead of pushing them away, I can only speculate based on his character and state of mind. The joy he feels in Monroe and Rosalee's living room, seeing the people he loves returned to him, is going to carry forward in his day to day existence. Like the end of It's a Wonderful, Nick is going to feel as if he has a new lease on life. He's going to feel as if he can't do any of this without them. Having been faced with the bleakest of futures, Nick will double down on what makes him feel alive. The writers themselves have characterized the future as on one big happy family affair. Meaning Nick clung to his loved ones. You may think that this is the wrong approach. You may think Nick and everyone he loves would be better off if he embraced a lone wolf mentality. But the simple fact is, he just didn't. His upbringing, growing up without parents, informs his decision as much as anything. If you want to construe it as selfish, so be it, but Nick choose a markedly open nature from that moment forward. That's not to say that their family life was normal though. When you grow up, living amidst the dueling natures of an everyday human reality and Wesen weirdness, I wouldn't characterize that as humdrum. But what's so great about normal anyway.

On the issue of Diana, being feisty and impatient doesn't mark her as damaged in some way. If anything, it seems like a typical, big sister/little brother relationship. She presents a confident and focused demeanor, but that doesn't make her some sort of bad seed. Since she calls Nick "Dad", it speaks to a closeness to him that would not be possible if he kept himself at a remove from her upbringing. Nick and Adalind would have had an enormous effect on her psychological development and understanding of her gifts. Since they're loving and supportive parents, it would have been a positive and normalizing influence. If Diana uses her power in a casual manner, it merely proffers the notion that they're simply a basic element of who she is. Like walking and talking. Her gifts aren't evil. Assuming they are is sort of a reactionary view. And on the matter of Diana using the staff, I have several points. Firstly, since the staff is placed in the trailer's weapons locker, one can assume that team Grimm has reached some consensus on the safety of it's use. This would have been resolved some time before Diana took to the field. Secondly, we have no particular clue as to the severity of the conflict they're about to jump into. This may be a matter of getting out the big guns for a serious fight. Thirdly, if Nick was the least bit worried about Diana's stability, he wouldn't allow her to use the staff. That this seems a non-issue, speaks to his confidence in her. Diana is, no doubt, a tough customer. A warrior. But it doesn't make her imbalanced or untrustworthy. She wouldn't be on the job if she was.

Quote:Nick may have documented it in a different Grimm book. One Grimm book could be wesen type orientation only while another book could be family stories.

We see the trailer has all the books. Even the hexenbiest books. Why would they recount the event in two different books that are in the same collection.
If that scene was not meant to have meaning. Why not have Kelly reading the entry instead of writing the entry. You then have Kelly refer to Nick as my father. Why would the writers do that is Diana was referring to Nick when see said dad. If that was what they called Nick while growing up. wouldn't Kelly have said my dad. Remember this is a thought out script not casual conversation. How a writer phrases things has meaning.

(04-16-2017, 05:36 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ]IMO a traditional Grimm would never leave his child/children to be raised by wesen biests.

From "The End".

Kelly tells him to guard the staff well, then adds, “Take good care of my grandson. I like his name.”

(04-16-2017, 07:09 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Nick may have documented it in a different Grimm book. One Grimm book could be wesen type orientation only while another book could be family stories.

We see the trailer has all the books. Even the hexenbiest books. Why would they recount the event in two different books that are in the same collection.
If that scene was not meant to have meaning. Why not have Kelly reading the entry instead of writing the entry. You then have Kelly refer to Nick as my father. Why would the writers do that is Diana was referring to Nick when see said dad. If that was what they called Nick while growing up. wouldn't Kelly have said my dad. Remember this is a thought out script not casual conversation. How a writer phrases things has meaning.

I don't know why they had Kelly write the entry, it was probably for dramatic effect. And it makes sense why he wrote my father, he's writing in a grimm journal not his personal one or writing just to Diana were he could just say father or Dad. I don't know about anyone else, but unless I'm speaking or writing to my siblings, I refer to my mom as "my mom" to people.

(04-16-2017, 07:09 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]We see the trailer has all the books. Even the hexenbiest books. Why would they recount the event in two different books that are in the same collection.

Some books are for all Grimms and some wesen while some books might only be for the Kessler line where the point of view would be different.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/03/31/grimm-finale-interview/

Last question: I couldn’t help noticing the computer in that last scene of the finale. Does this mean Team Grimm finally digitized all that lore?

KOUF: Kelly and Diana? Oh, sure. They’re bringing it up to speed. It’s all in the cloud now.

The Grimm journals are rather formal and informative. It makes sense for Kelly to say my "father" instead of my "dad" as Diana said. She was speaking to her baby brother in a more personal manner while Kelly is speaking to future Grimms about what his father did when defeating the great Zerstörer.

Quote:You then have Kelly refer to Nick as my father. Why would the writers do that is Diana was referring to Nick when see said dad.

You’re putting way too much emphasis on a single line of dialogue. Kelly may have used the formal reference simply because Grimm books are intended to be passed down to future generations.

Nothing in the ending suggests that Nick leaves his friends and family, rather, the entire ending showcases Nick’s overwhelming joy when discovering that his friends and family are with him.

It could be that you’re pushing for a future with Nick as the lone Grimm because it would prevent him being married to and in love with Adalind during those twenty years. And dare I say that a certain Hexenbiest named Eve might have accompanied Nick in your interpretation of the future.

Careful, syscrash, your ship is showing.