(04-06-2017, 09:30 AM)Circe27 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-06-2017, 09:23 AM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ]I don't have anything against the actresses 
It's a nice extra that they are in real life together (David and Bitsie) but I for myself and I can just speak for myself I have nothing against Adalind or Juliette/Eve but I prefer still Juliette. But I think if they would have handle the things differently that Nick and Juliette would still be together.
(04-06-2017, 09:20 AM)Circe27 Wrote: [ -> ]Adalind didn't want Nick the first 4 seasons, she wasn't after Juliette's man trying to get her for himself and she certainly didn't steal him. It's shown on screen why did she slept with Nick, it was the only way to get her kid back. When she does go to Nick, it's because she has no other option. On screen she says she already lost 1 child, she wasn't going to lose another. Adalind's major concern, again it is shown on screen, is protecting her unborn baby. She goes to Nick for protection. She admits she has done many wrongs but she wants to do right by her child and she changes herself for her children. She had all the right to hate Nick and the gang for taking Diana but holding on to that hate wouldn't help her new baby. Adalind was stuck in the fome, with little contact to the outside world, was completely dependent on Nick and didn't like it, but it was the safest option for her and her child so she did it. She ended up with Nick later on but that was not her intention. I don't think Adalind getting Nick is all it's hyped to be.
But to be honest if it wasn't because of Juliette, Adalind wouldn't go to Nick! She was feared and needed support
Yes, Adalind went to Nick because Juliette tried to kill her. So if Juliette hadn't attempted to murder her, Adalind wouldn't have told Nick she was pregnant with his kid and just left town. Nick would have never known he was going to be a father and maybe Juliette would have calmed down and listened to reason eventually.
And just to be clear, in that scenario it would have been extremely wrong for Adalind to never tell Nick she was pregnant and kidnap the kid.
I think this would have happened and knowing how much Nick loves his son, I would have been devastated on his behalf if Adalind had kept the truth from him.
(04-06-2017, 08:33 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (04-06-2017, 07:36 AM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ]Sean sent Adalind to try and kill Marie, but she was unsuccessful because Nick recognized her. Marie didn't even know about it because she was unconcious at the time. And when Adalind cursed Hank, Nick did go after her. They had a huge fight, in which Adalind lost her powers. And if Nick chooses not kill her at the time, it's because in those early years, he was still very much in cop mode. Not to mention the fact that Nick has never been the sort to kill a defenseless woman, which she was by that point. Lastly, when Juliette was put under a sleeping curse, Adalind made quick tracks to Europe. Nick tried to find her, but couldn't. Had he caught up to her, maybe it goes badly, but that's a road untraveled. By the time Adalind was back in town, Juliette was alive and well, (relatively speaking), so Nick's anger had abated. He certainly hated her guts, but he wasn't going to try and murder her for something that almost happened.
If Nick was weirded out by Juliette as a Hexenbeist, it's as much because of what Adalind had done, as it was was the shock of seeing her face turn into this frightening visage. At this point, Nick still had the traditional Grimm view of the Hexenbeist. And Juliette wasn't exactly comforting about it, rubbing it in his face. Nothing that happened over the next few weeks would help to assuage those jaundiced opinions. Nick did everything he could to bring Juliette back, but she was fighting him at every turn. Even after Kelly's death he couldn't bring himself to kill her. Trubel had to pull the trigger.
What happened with Adalind is so much more complicated than hooking up with her because she was having his baby. It begins with the fact that Adalind had been slowly and subtly changing for quite some time. From pregnancy onward, she had been working her way back to a buried humanity. Even after becoming a Hexenbeist again, those changes continued. I've always believed that the Hexenbeist within her had been slowly chipped away by a series of events. Sharing that power with Diana. Turning into Juliette and creating a magical connection to Nick. Having Juliette take a portion of that power for herself. It all had the effect of removing the Hexenbeist influence on Adalind's psyche. By the time she willingly gives up that power to create the suppressant, Adalind is already a changed woman. She just doesn't know it yet. The rest is an emotional armor that she had been building for herself since childhood. Her mother had wanted to mold her in her own image, and though she tried to buck that path, by the time we meet her, that's exactly who she's become. An object for powerful men like Sean Renard and the Royals to use out of lust and a desire for influence and control. Her entire journey over the first four seasons, (though she doesn't realize it), is to break free of that path.
When Nick is confronted with a pregnant Adalind, what else can he do but protect her. That's his child inside of her. Neither of their views of each other has changed at this point. He doesn't trust her. She's still afraid of him. But once that Hexenbeist side of her is suppressed, he can't keep looking at her as an enemy, but as a pregnant woman. One he needs to take care of. From a male perspective, that's an almost instinctual reaction. Once the fight was finished, and they had time to consider what was happening in their lives, they had no choice but to lean on each other. With a baby to look after and threats still looming, they had to huddle together. Inspite of their past, an intimacy inevitably developed. They had to get to know each other as people instead of archetypes. It had to shock both of them when they realized that they actually liked each other. Knowing her as a person and learning to care about her had a lasting effect on his whole view of the Hexenbeist issue. When she got her powers back, it didn't change her personality or her loyalty to him, so Nick never had a reason to fall back on old prejudices. For Adalind, falling in love with Nick was easy because she found herself living with a man who was kind and protective. A man who cared about her and respected her in a way that no man probably ever had in her whole life. An actual Knight in shining armor and loving father, which she probably doubted existed. For Nick, it was like living with a completely different woman. Atleast, different from any of his expectations. She was warm and supportive. They never bickered about anything. She became and unexpected foundation for him in turbulent times. Recognizing it as love was a slower process for Nick, but she just kept surprising him. Seeing her, day in and day out, as a loving and patient mother also had a massive impact on his evolving affection for her. He told Monroe once, before he had slept with Adalind, that it all seemed so "strangely normal". Eventually it stopped being strange to him at all. If you want to blame someone or something for what happened between them, blame fate. It forced them to view the world and each other differently. People do get to change, for better or worse. They just underwent a positive one. And for all her pain, Eve is where she's meant to be as well. She said she wouldn't change things if she could. That applies to Nick and Adalind as well as herself.
Doesn't all this tell you that the series was biased toward Adalind?
No. It doesn't. Unless that whole determination is made based on who ends up with who. Both women had complicated paths to where they've ended up. And if the writers were truly biased, Juliette would have actually died when Trubel pulled that trigger. Eve isn't interested in romance. She's a devoted warrior for the cause now, and it's what she wants. Adalind, based on where they are in twenty years time, is the matriarch of a badass family. They're each where they should be, because the writers respected both of them.
(04-06-2017, 09:19 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think so. I'd say they are fairly even. The issue I think most people have is the character arcs for the two women. One began as a villain and made her way over to the side of good and the other began as a heroine and temporarily became a villain and now she's good again. For some, they see Adalind with Nick and with both her children with her as if it's indicative of writers preference, like she won in the love interest grand slam that is this show. I disagree with this, I think it's the other way around. Romance on a show isn't the pinnacle of a character's worth on a show, in fact I've seen more comments to it being a deathknell to a character's overall development.
Typically, shows cause pain to their protagonists as a means to drive the story. The purpose for this is so there's a big pay off at the end for viewer, who hate the journey but love the destination. It's fiction 101. I believe for years, this was exactly what the writers hoped to achieve with Juliette's character but the wires got crossed between the writers' intentions and what was actually on the show.
Adalind, as a villain, received the typical villain treatment for most of her time on the show, and they hit the mark with her character. Viewers responded to her accordingly. And later, just like modern television is prone to do these days, they made her a little sympathetic by showing her about turn after the birth of her daughter. She was as much a better written villain as Juliette was a horribly written heroine.
When it finally dawned on the writers that fans weren't connecting with their heroine, they changed tactics, switched the two women's role, more for Juliette's sake than for Adalind since of the two, Adalind was better liked due to Claire's performance. And since that switcheroo, Adalind has faded into the background while the writers pushed Juliette/Eve to the forefront and in S5B and all of S6, it was at the expense of showing Nick as the true main protagonist. Nick could have disappeared between S6 episodes 3 and 11 and the show would still have played out exactly like it did and that was a mistake imo.
Take away the wesen of the week cases and all you're left with is Eve's journey from being healed by the stick, to trying to discover what the symbols on the cloth meant, to trying to discover the origins of the stick, to being stalked by Zerstörer, to stupidly crossing the mirror dimension to kill Zerstörer without a plan or exit plan, to her closure with Nick, being about her finding her purpose and not chase some notion of happiness because Nick feels guilty for what happened to her and lastly to having no regrets about the hand she was dealt over the years.
Season 6 is like an ode to Eve, formerly known as Juliette Silverton and Adalind was nowhere near this significant, relegated to playing Nick's girlfriend, mother to two small children and nothing more, the perfect docile housewife, a pitiful shell of her former self, that is not the show being biased to Adalind, as far as I am concerned, it's nearly the opposite.
I agree this completely!
I feel like the writers changed Juliette's characters so many times not to prop up Adalind, but to make Juliette/Eve more likable to the audience.
(04-06-2017, 09:01 AM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ] (04-06-2017, 08:47 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (04-06-2017, 08:39 AM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ]And who is to blame for the break up? Would Nick and Juliette separate if Adalind wouldn't have done it? The answer is NO
You know, you really have to wonder at Nick's mentality over the breakup and subsequent move toward Adalind. She's (and excuse my language here) continually s**t on him. Yet he still gravitates toward her because she's sporting his child? Weird guy.
On the other hand, it could simply be looked at as one more step in putting them together.
irukandji, This is the same thing I think. It feels forced and somehow not right. If it's for the sake of Kelly. They do not need to be together. But For me Nadalind is a red cloth. I just can not make friends with them. But this is probably due to the fact that I prefer Nickliette more.
I don't say I don't like Adalind as Character I just say I don't belief Nadalind.
I agree with you, Tara. I also believe the relationship felt forced and even worse, fake. I often wondered if this so called connection Nick and Adalind had was really some kind of spell.
Going back to the police station incident, I found that so imbalanced and unreal on both Nick's and Adalind's part. For one thing, it makes Adalind look like some baglady person. On Nick's side, it makes him look like the most gullible man.
Yet Juliette gets the most criticism and her actions are completely understandable.
Juliette gets criticised for what she actually did and nothing more. She tried to kill Nick and his friend, torched his trailer with centuries worth of books pertaining to his heritage, books with import information that saved lives not just heirlooms to be placed on a shelf and left to collect dust. People died as a direct result of her actions to hurt Nick. People are right to criticise Juliette for what she did.
As they have a right to criticize Adalind and Nick.
(04-06-2017, 09:48 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (04-06-2017, 09:01 AM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ] (04-06-2017, 08:47 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (04-06-2017, 08:39 AM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ]And who is to blame for the break up? Would Nick and Juliette separate if Adalind wouldn't have done it? The answer is NO
You know, you really have to wonder at Nick's mentality over the breakup and subsequent move toward Adalind. She's (and excuse my language here) continually s**t on him. Yet he still gravitates toward her because she's sporting his child? Weird guy.
On the other hand, it could simply be looked at as one more step in putting them together.
irukandji, This is the same thing I think. It feels forced and somehow not right. If it's for the sake of Kelly. They do not need to be together. But For me Nadalind is a red cloth. I just can not make friends with them. But this is probably due to the fact that I prefer Nickliette more.
I don't say I don't like Adalind as Character I just say I don't belief Nadalind.
I agree with you, Tara. I also believe the relationship felt forced and even worse, fake. I often wondered if this so called connection Nick and Adalind had was really some kind of spell.
Going back to the police station incident, I found that so imbalanced and unreal on both Nick's and Adalind's part. For one thing, it makes Adalind look like some baglady person. On Nick's side, it makes him look like the most gullible man.
Yet Juliette gets the most criticism and her actions are completely understandable.
Yes, and that is what makes me so angry. Juliette is the one who get the most criticism and is to blame for everything. I can understand why she did react as she did. Turn into a Hexenbiest - her boyfriend turn away of her in disgust when she need him the most. When she was vulnerable. And she did it for him. And then the stupid scene at the police station. I can fully understand her. A few scenes were silly and don't needed to be - But again I can understand her. She has lost everything who would not go crazy? Special when her boyfriend choice Adalind over her even when it was for the baby but somehow I can understand her. And it does not mean I approve what she did. But equal right for both.
If you don't find them believable, no one is going to change your mind and they shouldn't try, I'm not trying to. I never bought Juliette and Nick as couple or saw any chemistry between them, I'm never going to see it. I commented because I disagreed with posts that Adalind went for Nick just to take him from Juliette or that she stole Nick. That's simply just not what happened on the show.
(04-06-2017, 10:03 AM)Circe27 Wrote: [ -> ]If you don't find them believable, no one is going to change your mind and they shouldn't try, I'm not trying to. I never bought Juliette and Nick as couple or saw any chemistry between them, I'm never going to see it. I commented because I disagreed with posts that Adalind went for Nick just to take him from Juliette or that she stole Nick. That's simply just not what happened on the show.
I feel exactly the same.
(04-06-2017, 10:00 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]As they have a right to criticize Adalind and Nick.
I am all for rightfully criticising all the characters for their actions. It keeps things fair.