There was no romantic or sexual chemistry between Nick and Juliette and there was with Nick and Adalind. However, the show should have never had Adalind rape Hank or Nick and having rape baby Kelly Jr. was beyond dumb. There were several ways that Nick and Adalind could have had a ONS that did not involve rape and Kelly Jr. was the end result.
The best Juliette is and will always be a dead one!
(04-12-2017, 10:00 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]There's another thing that bothers me about the perception of Adalind being favored. Wouldn't Adalind have received more screentime and become more essential to the plot if she were truly favored? Adalind would've been lifted beyond being Nick's girlfriend. They would've put Adalind at the forefront if the producers felt she was so popular that it was worth decimating an original character.
Juliette got the huge power boost. She's the one that got to go on the important missions. She's the one that drew Zerstorer out. It took Adalind several seasons to end up on Team Grimm and that was only because she had Nick's child. She didn't really participate in any missions. Not even the WoTW. Juliette was back on Team Grimm after all her horrible acts in the blink of an eye. The Eve storyline was absurd but it only took one conversation where she says she's a completely different person for Nick to work alongside her. They bent over backwards to increase her importance in the overarching narrative. I get the feeling they expected Eve to be a very likable character.
I don't get how people equate ratings drop to either Adalind or her relationship with Nick when Adalind practically fell off the map the second her and Nick started circling each other and eventually slept together. Eve/Juliette commanded most of season 5 plot as the HW super powered operative while Meisner and Trubel were shuffled to the back. Nick was pretty much left on the outside of the BC plot until BC went after Adalind. In S6 it got even worse. Eve became the center of the show as everything was about her seeing the symbols, the stick healing, the mirror monster stalking her, going to the mirror dimension to fight Zerstörer alone until the stripped her powers away and the show returned to its (long forgotten) regular programming of Nick the Grimm in the last three episodes, with especially the last episode truly being about the actual main character in every sense of the word as we each death through Nick's eyes.
(04-12-2017, 08:47 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017, 06:39 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I am curious. Just how much does a poll like Juliette/Nick or Adalind/Nick really influence a television series like Grimm? In other words, let's say 45% favor Juliette/Adalind while 40% favor Adalind/Nick. In the scheme of things, exactly how does that relate to demographic ratings where the 18-49 crowd measures say, 4.0 million?
When users answers social media polls some demographic data can be captured. Some of the data is given by users voluntarily. Other data can be merged from google data and the like but in a way to protect internet user’s privacy. The charts below were created in an article showing how you can use internet demographic data to understand your customers.
Thanks for the info. I can't imagine that the corporations who back the show are even remotely interested in whether Juliette is number 1 or Adalind is number 1. I certainly wouldn't be if I had an investment in the show. I'd be more concerned with how many people are watching the show and if that translates into big bucks for my product.
In short, I know people have reviewed a lot of polls and tweets and facebook posts, but in the end, it really is a bunch of nonsense and has no bearing on anything.
(04-12-2017, 10:04 AM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017, 04:49 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2017, 11:18 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]A contrasting theory...
The writers were under pressure to change the storyline to give Bitsie another chance to attempt to act...with much the same result as you indicated.
So they changed Bitsie's role because she was really the only one holding up the ratings?
No, they were catering to her, supposedly, because associates on her father's side finance a lot of projects, hence the reason such a talentless actress gets so many chances to try and find her stride, she is connected, at least that is how it was explained to me when I inquired.
I have no idea if Bitsie had any impact on ratings. I know, I think she sucks as an actress, but that is not why I stopped watching the show. We actually use to enjoy making sport of her lack of acting ability in various scenes. It was the writing: Black Claw, super babies, Juliette/Eve stuff that drove us away.
Not that I don't think this happens, but really, I don't see actors of such a mediocre program having that much clout. If Bitsie really had all that much sayso, Grimm would be competing with the big dogs on a different night than relegated to Fridays.
Besides that, the show is about Nick. Any changes to the program would reflect on him. While it was a completely horsecrap storyline, the only reason Juliette would be changed is to make Nick look more appealing. That's all it comes down to. She turns into a bitch so he can show his "stunning" (NOT) acting ability by weeping over her lifeless bod. Adalind gets turned into a mother so Nick can show his "affectionate and fatherlike" (NOT) side.
When there's a lame character actor in the lead role, the series will do anything to make him look better including change the leading ladies to enhance his lackluster appearance. Only in this case, nothing worked.
If you notice, Rosalee was never tampered with. Why? Because she and Monroe click. They're a treasure to watch and they compliment one another. The series didn't change Renard because it's apparent. The man can act and even as an oily and evil dude, he clicks with the audience. Monroe is intelligent and often quips comical, unintentional insults. He's fun. Nick doesn't click with the audience, has no comedic timing, and is a bore.
(04-12-2017, 03:13 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Not that I don't think this happens, but really, I don't see actors of such a mediocre program having that much clout. If Bitsie really had all that much sayso, Grimm would be competing with the big dogs on a different night than relegated to Fridays.
I am not saying she has clout as other people looking out for her do ($$$)
(04-12-2017, 03:13 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]When there's a lame character actor in the lead role, the series will do anything to make him look better including change the leading ladies to enhance his lackluster appearance. Only in this case, nothing worked.
I find this observation very interesting. I don't think David is close to a character actor: Monroe, Bud, Wu were characters that they played in various capacities in many shows/movies. David has a thin resume and plays no recognizable type of character consistently. Personally I do not think he mad ea believable detective nor did I buy him in the Benghazi flick either. he ants to be a leading man, but,in my opinion, falls far short of the mark. And he would have to step it up to become a notable character actor.
(04-12-2017, 03:13 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Nick doesn't click with the audience, has no comedic timing, and is a bore.
Agreed. He is no Adrian Paul (Highlander reference).
This board may hate Nick as passionately as it does and Nick may be dull as dishwasher but I'm almost certain people watched the show for him as much as the weird cases he solved every week. I've complained enough during S6 about him being sidelined and I know I wasn't the only one. He may be uncharismatic but I watch Grimm for the actual main Grimm on the show, not his sidekicks (some of whom I love) and not for his relationships (which have always been horribly written) and certainly not for the bad guys (even though Adalind became my second favourite character on the show about halfway through the entire run of the show and I liked Renard until S5 and he became stupid).
Monroe and Rosalee's were pretty much left untouched because they were Nick's supporting cast. Apart from their family objecting to their relationship and the weserein, they remained stable while Nick's personal was turned upside down.
Renard went through changes, from villainy to ally, to villainy again and finally back to ally and it was jarring to witness the quick succession changes in the last two seasons and then the weird Meisner ghost storyline that actually failed in showing Renard change of heart besides getting tired of being stalked my Meisner's ghost. It was terrible writing that didn't make any sense and just as bad as anything they've put so many characters through since the beginning of the show that wasn't Monroe or Rosalee
One of the reason Juilette/Biste got more screen time and Claire got less was because of Claire's Pregnancy. So I can understand the screen time between both changing in Season 4 and 5. In Season 5 Claire was raising a new born and that is already stressful so they didn't want to overwork her. IMO that is one of the reasons they decided to make Juilette into a Hexenbiest. She was suppose to be the new Adalind, since Claire couldn't really work the hours.
Season 3 was the highest rated season of Grimm. For me the reason was because Adalind and Nick had powerful storylines in those seasons. In season 4,5 and 6(For the most part) Adalind and Nick were getting sidelined storywise. So alot of people who tuned in to see Nick and Adalind storylines tuned out because they weren't really getting any storylines.
Also people need to stop coming for David/Nick. He is usually ranked within the top 3 when it comes to popularity polls. I like Monroe but dude couldn't handle a storyline on his own. He isn't main character material. Yet he is the most popular grimm character.
As far as the Juilette character being ruined causing ratings to decrease I seriously doubt it. Before Juilette even turned on Nick and Co ratings had already decreased. If Juilette fans were really leaving than they weren't really Juilette fans to begin with because if I truly like a character I am going to stick with them even if they had 1 bad season. I hated how the show handled Adalind in Season 4, 5 and 6 yet I was sitting in front of the tv every Friday night watching. I especially made sure I watch Adalind episodes live and downloaded them. Why? Because as a true fan I am going to support her character. Same should be applied to Juilette.
Also I will never stop watching a show because of 1 thing I don't like. Especially when it has little to no effect on the plot being told. Adalind was my favorite character since season 1 however I didn't just watch Grimm for Adalind. Because if I only liked 1 character on the show I wouldn't even waste my time watching it. I would literally just YouTube scenes with that character. I have actually done it before.
All the actors/Actresses and Characters were great. We are all going to have our favorites and Least favorites doesn't mean One character is written better than the other. What it means is that we can relate to one character more than the others or that character has qualities that we aspire to have.
(04-12-2017, 07:48 PM)Nicholas White Wrote: [ -> ]What it means is that we can relate to one character more than the others or that character has qualities that we aspire to have.
Just an observation, but I think if anyone can relate to any of these extremely troubled characters...well, let's just say I feel sorry for them. As for aspiring to emulate their qualities, well, perhaps some quality time with a therapist is in order.
Talking about the drop[ in ratings all shows have shown a drop. To understand this you have to understand how ratings are done. Rating are heavily based on live views. What has happened is viewers are moving from broadcast to streaming. Streaming has just started to figure in to ratings. If you noticed each friday there is always a push to watch the show while cast members live tweet.
Things are changing, in a year or two there will no longer be episodes released each week. Show will release the entire season at once. Even now a lot of shows have filmed the entire season before the first episode airs. show use to be filmed one week then aired the next. Even Grimm filming is way ahead of when it airs.
That is why I always thought it funny a grimm episode airs and people start posting their likes and dislikes. Don't they realize what they want changed is all ready filmed. The Juliette to Eve transformation. that story line was all ready written and most had been filmed before we even got the first glimpse of Eve. The same with the Nadalind story line. So how could viewers comments effect the show if the show was filmed before the viewers even saw it. They are not going back to edit something because of negitive press.
The other thing the show has millions of viewers yet only a few thousand participate in polls. Polls are not a good indication of the viewers opinions. Howard Stern proved how viewers opinion have no validity when he got Sanjaya entered in the finals of American Idol. Even when polls are structured to allow people to vote once. There are thousand of fans who know how to pack the vote.
As far as screen time is based on the contract not based on viewers appreciation. The question was brought up why Clair was not in two episodes of the last season. It was explained by contract she is only allowed a certain amount of screen time. The idea that nepotism plays a part in why Bitsie has her position on the show. Show a lack of understanding of business. Gimm is not some independent crowd funding project. It is a multi million dollar endeavor that answers to a lot of investors. There have been a number of shows where actors thought they could use their star powers to makes demands. the result was they where replaced. The other thing I noticed people do not understand the nature of the craft. It is one thing to play a version of your self. It is another to play a character completely opposite of who you are. The character Eve is so different the who Juliette is. Yet even the complainants show Bitsie was able to make it believable that Eve was and unemotional animated character. The fact that viewers may not have liked the character is no reflection on Bitsie's ability to play the part. Clair's pregnancy had noting to do with her screen time. It may have figured into what she did on screen.
(04-12-2017, 09:23 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]As far as screen time is based on the contract not based on viewers appreciation. The question was brought up why Clair was not in two episodes of the last season. It was explained by contract she is only allowed a certain amount of screen time. The idea that nepotism plays a part in why Bitsie has her position on the show. Show a lack of understanding of business. Gimm is not some independent crowd funding project. It is a multi million dollar endeavor that answers to a lot of investors. There have been a number of shows where actors thought they could use their star powers to makes demands. the result was they where replaced. The other thing I noticed people do not understand the nature of the craft. It is one thing to play a version of your self. It is another to play a character completely opposite of who you are. The character Eve is so different the who Juliette is. Yet even the complainants show Bitsie was able to make it believable that Eve was and unemotional animated character. The fact that viewers may not have liked the character is no reflection on Bitsie's ability to play the part. Clair's pregnancy had noting to do with her screen time. It may have figured into what she did on screen.
Regarding the Claire issue, it was pointed out that it wasn't necessarily and most likely not Claire's contract that limited screen time or she'd have been out of episodes in season 5. Season 6 was only 13 episodes and there wasn't anyway they could have maxed it out. I can't find the post now but someone explained that Grimm has a certain amount budgeted for actors. Since she's not billed as a lead role, she only gets paid in episodes she's in regardless of screen time. They most likely decided to save money and not use her in 2 episodes. Maybe to use the money to cover the finale guest appearances. It's not unheard of to do so in the industry.
(04-12-2017, 10:04 AM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]No, they were catering to her, supposedly, because associates on her father's side finance a lot of projects, hence the reason such a talentless actress gets so many chances to try and find her stride, she is connected, at least that is how it was explained to me when I inquired.
I have no idea if Bitsie had any impact on ratings. I know, I think she sucks as an actress, but that is not why I stopped watching the show. We actually use to enjoy making sport of her lack of acting ability in various scenes. It was the writing: Black Claw, super babies, Juliette/Eve stuff that drove us away.
I also heard about this too. These are the sort of perks one gets when heavily connected via wealth. As they say - "money talks, bullSh*t walks. And yes, I agree too Izzy, she is a talentless actress. I would not be surprised if her father sponsored the Grimm show project in some way, and sure, likely have tried to keep a hush-hush.