Grimm Forum

No, she has forced the Sex with him by the first time.

(04-27-2017, 06:22 PM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2017, 06:10 PM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2017, 05:51 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2017, 04:47 PM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ]And it's not rape. Nick would have to believe it was, to call it so.

So you're saying then that Nick knew he was having sex with Adalind and consented then, correct?

Nick was consenting to sex. It didn't matter whether it was Juliette or Adalind. From his male perspective it was, "sex attained, on to other business...like wondering when I'll have more sex." The awkward emotional fallout between he and Juliette, that comes after, is wholly apart from the act. Your ascribing way too much emotional real estate to the male view of sex.

Okay, let me get this straight. Do you really believe Nick would have say yes to have sex with Adalind back then - out of his own free will? You don't really believe that, do you?

Of course not. But it's beside the point. He had sex. He enjoyed it. Once the act was completed, it didn't linger in his subconscious. It's just male compartmentalization. The emotion and the act become seperate things. He'll recall the encounter in a pleasurable manner. The drama that comes after will bear the emotional turmoil. Feeling like an idiot because he noticed no differences, due to the fact that, in typical male fashion, he was mainly interested in getting his rocks off. Carrying a measure of guilt for the way it's hurting Juliette. These are the things that he carried forward as emotional baggage. The sex itself just ends up an amusing anecdote to joke about with Monroe. When confronted by Juliette, in the form of a naked Adalind, he's not exactly suffering from PTSD. More over, when confronted with an actual naked Adalind, he wasn't hesitating then either. That moment came with a profession of love from Adalind. Nick, on the other hand, was still unsure how deep his feelings went. But he was certainly more than ready to get it on. Simply put, it's because he's a guy. We just want the sex. We don't spend a lot of time dwelling on the emotional ramifications. Perhaps that's a narrow thought process, but it's sort of hard wired. It takes a measure of effort to expand into a more empathetic plane. Which makes our natural inclination, somewhat more self centered. And if the self is currently centered on sex, emotional undercurrents tend to fall by the wayside.

(04-27-2017, 07:41 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]I think Juliette was a bit harsh (I am only taking about the Nick stuck Mr. Happy in Adalind disguised as Juliette) given the fact she looked just like her. Although I think he should have suspected something was odd.

Juliette's reaction was weird, period. I agree with you that she was harsh, as far as questioning Nick. Aside from that, the whole, "pull the car over so I can be sick thing" was completely fake. I would have preferred Dr. Juliette, first putting the thought in Nick's head that while he considers it the ultimate male fantasy, think about why Adalind would do such a thing. In other words, did she injure him with her sexual antics? Then, I would have liked to have seen a very angry Juliette, not at Nick, but at Adalind. That shows Nick just how important he is to Juliette. In addition, Nick might just get the idea that Adalind's actions impacted Juliette too, especially if he views this as male fantasy, but Juliette looks at it as a sexual assault.

At times, he really is a total doofus.

(04-27-2017, 08:01 PM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ]No, I don't say it's acceptable either way. Both acting are just wrong. But the relationship if you want to call it what Nick and Adalind pretend to have is wrong. The relationship is like an offender/victim relationship and that is just wrong and not acceptable.

Nick does not view himself as a victim. If anything, in those early days of their relationship, Adalind was the emotionally vulnerable one. Because he was a Grimm, and her powers were gone, she felt very much at his mercy. It took her a while to no longer act as if she were walking on egg shells with him. There is nothing even remotely abusive in their relationship. And I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that they're pretending to love each other, other than from your own distaste for the couple. She's been true to him every step of the way. Even at points where she could have simplified her life by betraying him. Bonaparte literally had to physically assault her and threaten Kelly in order to sway her. And even then, she saved the day by pointing Diana at the situation. The feeling of love was coming off of Nick to such a degree, that Eve could catch the vibe. And if you don't buy his declaration of love to Adalind, I would say that it was plastered all over his face and crystal clear in his body language when he came through that portal and found her alive again. Nick told his mom that he wanted Adalind. He didn't mean as a Bridge partner.

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(04-27-2017, 08:21 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2017, 07:41 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]I think Juliette was a bit harsh (I am only taking about the Nick stuck Mr. Happy in Adalind disguised as Juliette) given the fact she looked just like her. Although I think he should have suspected something was odd.

Juliette's reaction was weird, period. I agree with you that she was harsh, as far as questioning Nick. Aside from that the whole, "pull the car over so I can be sick thing" was completely fake. I would have preferred doctor Juliette, first putting the thought in Nick's head that while he considers it the ultimate male fantasy, think about why Adalind would do such a thing. In other words, did she injure him with her sexual antics? Then, I would have liked to have seen a very angry Juliette, not at Nick, but at Adalind. That shows Nick just how important he is to Juliette. In addition, Nick might just get the idea that Adalind's actions impacted Juliette too, especially if he views this as male fantasy, but Juliette looks at it as a sexual assault.

At times, he really is a total doofus.

Nick didn't consider it a male fantasy...It is a male fantasy. This is predicated on the writers view of events. Nick's perspective is filtered through that. Meaning, he sees it in basic terms. Without the qualification of an external viewpoint, the fantasy aspect only represents itself as normalization. Not in the sense that the circumstances aren't bizarre, but rather in the notion that the act itself was not transgressive toward his psyche. To him, the sex was like any sex. It's in his relationship to Juliette that this carries an emotional burden for him. That he cares at all, is indicative of his feelings for Juliette. If she tried to convince him that this was sexual assault, she would simply be projecting her own feelings on him. And perhaps Nick was a doofus in this moment, but if so, he's was just the standard male doofus.

(04-27-2017, 08:41 PM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ]Nick didn't consider it a male fantasy...It is a male fantasy. This is predicated on the writers view of events. Nick's perspective is filtered through that. Meaning, he sees it in basic terms. Without the qualification of an external viewpoint, the fantasy aspect only represents itself as normalization. Not in the sense that the circumstances aren't bizarre, but rather in the notion that the act itself was not transgressive toward his psyche. To him, the sex was like any sex. It's in his relationship to Juliette that this carries an emotional burden for him. That he cares at all, is indicative of his feelings for Juliette. If she tried to convince him that this was sexual assault, she would simply be projecting her own feelings on him. And perhaps Nick was a doofus in this moment, but if so, he's was just the standard male doofus.

So the male fantasy here is having their woman have sex with them and then severely injure them afterwards?

(04-27-2017, 08:21 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2017, 07:41 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]I think Juliette was a bit harsh (I am only taking about the Nick stuck Mr. Happy in Adalind disguised as Juliette) given the fact she looked just like her. Although I think he should have suspected something was odd.

Juliette's reaction was weird, period. I agree with you that she was harsh, as far as questioning Nick. Aside from that, the whole, "pull the car over so I can be sick thing" was completely fake. I would have preferred Dr. Juliette, first putting the thought in Nick's head that while he considers it the ultimate male fantasy, think about why Adalind would do such a thing. In other words, did she injure him with her sexual antics? Then, I would have liked to have seen a very angry Juliette, not at Nick, but at Adalind. That shows Nick just how important he is to Juliette.

This is how I felt it should have been written but the writers ruined it by framing it as Nick "cheating" and Juliette being the one "hurt" by Nick's actions instead of acknowledging Adalind violated Nick. I couldn't believe that entire conversation in the car to Monroe's wedding. Fast forward to now, that entire incident between Nick and Adalind does morph into something else because of Kelly and those two actually being in a relationship together. I think there's a general consensus about how we viewers see/should see Adalind's actions but at the same time there's Nick's own reaction in the situation should be taken into account even if we may not agree with him not feeling violated by Adalind. These characters are walking puppets for the writers who were the real villains in what happened between Nick and Adalind and not being sensitive, not only in the strange conversation in the car, but in putting Nick and Adalind together without properly ironing out the ramifications of that decision for not only the characters but the viewing audience.

I don't mind Nick and Adalind together. I love them individually and have come to enjoy them together but the writers completely messed it up in how they put them together. It could have been done better.

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(04-27-2017, 09:14 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2017, 08:41 PM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ]Nick didn't consider it a male fantasy...It is a male fantasy. This is predicated on the writers view of events. Nick's perspective is filtered through that. Meaning, he sees it in basic terms. Without the qualification of an external viewpoint, the fantasy aspect only represents itself as normalization. Not in the sense that the circumstances aren't bizarre, but rather in the notion that the act itself was not transgressive toward his psyche. To him, the sex was like any sex. It's in his relationship to Juliette that this carries an emotional burden for him. That he cares at all, is indicative of his feelings for Juliette. If she tried to convince him that this was sexual assault, she would simply be projecting her own feelings on him. And perhaps Nick was a doofus in this moment, but if so, he's was just the standard male doofus.

So the male fantasy here is having their woman have sex with them and then severely injure them afterwards?

What do you mean by this?

(04-27-2017, 09:21 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2017, 09:14 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2017, 08:41 PM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ]Nick didn't consider it a male fantasy...It is a male fantasy. This is predicated on the writers view of events. Nick's perspective is filtered through that. Meaning, he sees it in basic terms. Without the qualification of an external viewpoint, the fantasy aspect only represents itself as normalization. Not in the sense that the circumstances aren't bizarre, but rather in the notion that the act itself was not transgressive toward his psyche. To him, the sex was like any sex. It's in his relationship to Juliette that this carries an emotional burden for him. That he cares at all, is indicative of his feelings for Juliette. If she tried to convince him that this was sexual assault, she would simply be projecting her own feelings on him. And perhaps Nick was a doofus in this moment, but if so, he's was just the standard male doofus.

So the male fantasy here is having their woman have sex with them and then severely injure them afterwards?

What do you mean by this?

Nick had mind blowing sex (according to him), but lost his grimm powers as a result. Elizabeth said the loss of his powers could do more harm than good. I assume she meant the loss of his powers could do him more harm than good, hence he is severely injured. So is the male fantasy mind blowing sex followed by severe injury?

I understand Nick looking at this from a "we only had sex, what's the big deal?" perspective.......for about 5 minutes. But then he should be putting it all together and wondering what Adalind was doing there. He never, ever did that. It's as though he assumed she was just waiting for this great opportunity to help herself to his bod while Juliette was out. Duh.

Juliette doesn't fair any better in this episode. She seems to be focused on Nick having sex with Adalind, and "well did Nick really, really, really, really know it was Adalind he was forking and he's just not telling me? Okay, I'm going to be sick".

Their whole interaction was not one of two adults who should be figuring that looks are deceiving and what appears normal often is not. Instead they act like two hormonal 15 year olds.

The thing I don't get about this is why didn't Nick clue in clothing when Adalind (as Juliette) waltzed back in. Yeah, I get that sex would cloud his judgment, but Juliette just left. Adalind returns but in a different outfit. The writers have him so dazzled by the thought of sex that they don't have him notice the little things (like hair and clothes) that cops are trained to notice.

I don't think male fantasy involves being injured. With Nick sex was just that until he realised it hurt Juliette not being able to tell the difference. Had it only been about the sex and not the removal of his ability that's the extent of injury Nick would apply to the incident. He felt no personal injury once he realised it was Adalind and it was only for Juliette. If we are talking male fantasy in this case it could be about an innate desire to have sex with someone that wasn't their partner, not being injured after fulfilling such a fantasy. I'm not a man so I can't be accurate in my limited assessment. Nick sleeping with Juliette as Adalind does more in showing this supposed fantasy that Nick perhaps harboured in his subconscious. The personal injury he felt in losing his power is treated as something completely removed from the emotional injury that "He" caused Juliette. I don't even remember Nick being angry about it in the way Adalind was after he killed her hexenbiest. He just seemed sad and bereft like he lost a limb and he was now trying to figure out how to live without but still experienced the effects of a phantom limb that kept him from fully accepting his powerlessness. Adalind spoke about her regrets about what she did to him and Nick said it was an opportunity she gave him to live a normal life. It still sounds as though he doesn't accept the personal injury Adalind dealt him, not even when it's pointed out to him in some capacity.

Edit: This is even more illuminating on Nick's character when you look at his answer when Adalind asks him where their first kiss was. The first answer is the correct one, the kiss in the loft but in Nick's mind he's already reassigned their "kiss" in the Bremen Ruins from S1. Adalind corrects him that it wasn't a kiss but I doubt it registered to him.

Nick's ideal life was that of his parents.Also his aunt would teach him how to behave before a woman.
Good manners.But becoming a "GRIMM",has made your mind change and its perspective.
Just as their "GRIMM" actions are different ,your intimate life too.
He does not respond to any of his ancestors or his dead relatives.
Only your own conscience

(04-28-2017, 06:13 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think male fantasy involves being injured. With Nick sex was just that until he realised it hurt Juliette not being able to tell the difference. Had it only been about the sex and not the removal of his ability that's the extent of injury Nick would apply to the incident. He felt no personal injury once he realised it was Adalind and it was only for Juliette. If we are talking male fantasy in this case it could be about an innate desire to have sex with someone that wasn't their partner, not being injured after fulfilling such a fantasy. I'm not a man so I can't be accurate in my limited assessment. Nick sleeping with Juliette as Adalind does more in showing this supposed fantasy that Nick perhaps harboured in his subconscious. The personal injury he felt in losing his power is treated as something completely removed from the emotional injury that "He" caused Juliette. I don't even remember Nick being angry about it in the way Adalind was after he killed her hexenbiest. He just seemed sad and bereft like he lost a limb and he was now trying to figure out how to live without but still experienced the effects of a phantom limb that kept him from fully accepting his powerlessness. Adalind spoke about her regrets about what she did to him and Nick said it was an opportunity she gave him to live a normal life. It still sounds as though he doesn't accept the personal injury Adalind dealt him, not even when it's pointed out to him in some capacity.

Edit: This is even more illuminating on Nick's character when you look at his answer when Adalind asks him where their first kiss was. The first answer is the correct one, the kiss in the loft but in Nick's mind he's already reassigned their "kiss" in the Bremen Ruins from S1. Adalind corrects him that it wasn't a kiss but I doubt it registered to him.

So do you believe that if Nick turned the situation around and asked when was the first time they made love, Adalind would reply 'in the fome' rather than 'in your bed?'