(04-22-2017, 05:42 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]This is an example. It doesn't matter if everyone if patting Nick and Hank on the back, that would happen in real life and so would the whisper campaign about Nick 5 minutes later.
Like it or not, and it is in large part playing out in real life right now, the police force is still a culture of machismo. While a lot of last two generations of young men may have been greatly feminized by society, it really is only starting in the police forces throughout the county now.
Why would adding women to a department reduce the whisper campaign? In areas where women are common it is much bigger issue than with men. Women often "pretend" to whisper when they are saying negative things about someone. Traditionally, men blamed women for gossip so I am glad you admit men do it to.
(04-22-2017, 06:01 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ]Why would adding women to a department reduce the whisper campaign? In areas where women are common it is much bigger issue than with men. Women often "pretend" to whisper when they are saying negative things about someone. Traditionally, men blamed women for gossip so I am glad you admit men do it to.
LOL. I suspect a lot of the miscommunication between you and I, is cultural in nature.
I was not suggesting adding women to the department, though many undoubtedly have lowered standards to allow this, rather I was referencing the obvious fact that young men are for more feminine in nature than past generations. The reason it would make a difference is the culture of machismo that still permeates most departments would be eradicated not because the gossip would stop.
By the way, it is not my imagination. My LEO buddies who watch the show were the ones who brought this up. Essentially it was: good luck to Nick getting back-up in the future. Cops get pushed out all the time when they realize back-up is not readily coming. It is how they cull the ranks without HR getting involved.
I have a problem with the writing as well but it's not going to make me deny what actually happened on the show. I can criticize the writing just as much as anyone but I won't give a false narrative based on what I think should've happened.
I'm all for discussing hypothetical situations. Those are often my favorite types of discussions on this forum but they're creeping into discussions about what officially happened on the show.
Officially, Nick got a hero's welcome when going back to the precinct. They admired Nick for being willing to do what he did and succeeding based on the story they were fed. They weren't shown to have any negative feelings for Nick and were glad he wasn't a fugitive and happily welcomed him back to the force.
I'm not saying Nick and the crew are some paragons of virtue. It's not like I'm saying they're role models we should all aspire to be in reality.
(04-22-2017, 04:45 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I watched that scene and I have to say, I found it to be so outlandishly fake as to be laughable. First, why would any of these cops have any sort of admiration for Nick? You say it's because they solve cases in grimmverse. Yet it was Wu who pointed out the opposite, that the vast majority of Nick's cases were unsolved. I believe Renard who shooed Wu from snooping further. Not to mention the doctoring of reports, and the fact that Nick was never ever put on administrative leave due to his high kill rate. Second, who in the precinct besides Nick and Hank knows about wesen to voice any admiration? Third, and I'm just speculating here, but I would imagine there'd be a lot of resentment and suspicion toward Nick because of favoritism from the Captain. Fourth, when have any of the men in blue besides Wu ever given Nick the time of day? He's a loner and doesn't hang out with anyone else besides Hank and Wu, and even then, it's not personal but in relation to his grimm issues.
Irukandji's real life exposure to LEOs shines through again. The way Nick's portrayed he is on the fringes of the police force.
To her fourth point, I speculated in the past that Nick may have once been what is oft referred to as a
Boy Scout which makes his descent into what he became all the more disturbing.
(04-22-2017, 04:45 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Well that's a lovely sentiment, but in reality, Adalind's been a failure from day one. She could have been a dynamic evil character, but the creative giants at Grimm didn't know how to write a woman who actually could think on her own. So what did they do? Turned Adalind from evil woman dependent on a man into a domestic mouse, dependent on Nick. So you're right, she's not even remotely the old version of herself. The new version is worse than the old one.
Exactly. Once again it goes back to the way the writers developed the characters and relationships. They are not believable.
Another great post by the JellyFish.
(04-22-2017, 06:53 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]I have a problem with the writing as well but it's not going to make me deny what actually happened on the show. I can criticize the writing just as much as anyone but I won't give a false narrative based on what I think should've happened.
I'm all for discussing hypothetical situations. Those are often my favorite types of discussions on this forum but they're creeping into discussions about what officially happened on the show.
Officially, Nick got a hero's welcome when going back to the precinct. They admired Nick for being willing do what he did and succeeding based on the story they were fed. They weren't shown to have any negative feelings for Nick and were glad he wasn't a fugitive and happily welcomed him back to the force.
I'm not saying Nick and the crew are some paragons of virtue. It's not like I'm saying they're role models we should all aspire to be in reality.
Excellent post. Nuff said.
(04-22-2017, 07:21 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. Once again it goes back to the way the writers developed the characters and relationships. They are not believable.
irukandj izzy
As you know, I am similar in age to you. What many forum users say is unbelievable about some Grimm characters, I have personally seen happen to people. When I first started on this forum, I tried to make my point using my personal experiences and I upset some forum posters. In order to better communicate to posters, I dropped using personal experiences and instead use transcripts, Grimm’s EP and writer’s views while trying to clearly state what are my opinions and my sources of information. IMO reality shows, many dramas and some cops shows that tried to be “real” their characters are the furthest from the way real humans behave. Being on this forum for the last eight months has raised my opinion of Grimm because I realized how Grimm’s Wesen/Grimms act and have beliefs like real people and IMO especially so a few thousand years ago in the violent past.
(04-22-2017, 06:42 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]Cops get pushed out all the time when they realize back-up is not readily coming. It is how they cull the ranks without HR getting involved.
If Nick followed the rules more and was a lot less violent that would solve a lot of his problems. Sean is even worse than Nick. Adalind is not a problem relative to the rest of the male cast since she is less violent to begin with. Especially after the biest fight with Juliette (best thing that happen to Adalind that happen in the show) season 4, 5, and 6 she is not violent at all and her behave became very cautious to protect her children.
Since women often do better on written tests than men, standards changed to let women on the police force but not always lower.
(04-22-2017, 09:25 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ]irukandj izzy
As you know, I am similar in age to you. What many forum users say is unbelievable about some Grimm characters, I have personally seen happen to people. When I first started on this forum, I tried to make my point using my personal experiences and I upset some forum posters. In order to better communicate to posters, I dropped using personal experiences and instead use transcripts, Grimm’s EP and writer’s views while trying to clearly state what are my opinions and my sources of information.
As I mentioned, I suspect their are large social and cultural differences between us, which, historically for me, has been part of the charm of the U.S. sadly, something I think is being obliterated (i.e regional nuances)
(04-22-2017, 09:25 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ]Since women often do better on written tests than men, standards changed to let women on the police force but not always lower.
As someone who has trained police, I am dismayed by the lowering of physical standards, the number of officers who have their physical safety threatened for the sake of female affirmative action and political correctness, and the stark number of females who have had their firearms taken away from them because they are in essence physically incapable of preventing it.
So when you cuff a suspect, for various reasons you need to take control. It is hard to explain this, but you generally guide an arm limb toward the back and at the same time lightly tap the suspect’s tricep which essentially release the elbow and allows you to cuff them without resistance, but at the same time the tap breaks their ability to resist and is an involuntary compliance check.. Women generally lack the mass in their hand to deliver the tricep tap and physical stature to bear down effectively, which means they do not release the elbow and therefore does not allow the suspect to involuntarily comply with the cuffing, as a result the suspect is often assumed to be resisting arrest when they simply are not. The arresting officer is incapable of administering a routine compliance check on a suspect due to a lack of hand and arm mass. In order to compensate the officer would need to strike which would over stimulate the nerve and the compliance check would not work as the arm would likely lock up ad so you are back to a false assumption that the suspect is resisting arrest. It is lose-lose.
You likely will eventually see a rise in unnecessary shootings, simply because female officers have less capacity to subdue suspect without resorting to lethal force.
(04-22-2017, 09:25 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (04-22-2017, 07:21 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. Once again it goes back to the way the writers developed the characters and relationships. They are not believable.
irukandj izzy
As you know, I am similar in age to you. What many forum users say is unbelievable about some Grimm characters, I have personally seen happen to people. When I first started on this forum, I tried to make my point using my personal experiences and I upset some forum posters. In order to better communicate to posters, I dropped using personal experiences and instead use transcripts, Grimm’s EP and writer’s views while trying to clearly state what are my opinions and my sources of information. IMO reality shows, many dramas and some cops shows that tried to be “real” their characters are the furthest from the way real humans behave. Being on this forum for the last eight months has raised my opinion of Grimm because I realized how Grimm’s Wesen/Grimms act and have beliefs like real people and IMO especially so a few thousand years ago in the violent past.
(04-22-2017, 06:42 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]Cops get pushed out all the time when they realize back-up is not readily coming. It is how they cull the ranks without HR getting involved.
If Nick followed the rules more and was a lot less violent that would solve a lot of his problems. Sean is even worse than Nick. Adalind is not a problem relative to the rest of the male cast since she is less violent to begin with. Especially after the biest fight with Juliette (best thing that happen to Adalind that happen in the show) season 4, 5, and 6 she is not violent at all and her behave became very cautious to protect her children.
Since women often do better on written tests than men, standards changed to let women on the police force but not always lower.
Sorry to interfere - but all the happenings in the series would have never happen in real life. And it is the most normal thing in the world that she wants to protect her children, which should be normal for every parent. But I can not believe that Adalind has changed so much. Nobody can change as much as she did, that is unrealistic. The old Adalind was different. She was naughty. And now she seems like replaced. As I said I actually like Adalind but the new Adalind is not the Adalind we did know back then. And that's strange. And somehow not beliefable. It's my opninion. No one should place his needs backwards. She is a mother but she is her own person with own needs. But Adalind, we have seen is miles away from being herself.
(04-22-2017, 04:45 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Well that's a lovely sentiment, but in reality, Adalind's been a failure from day one. She could have been a dynamic evil character, but the creative giants at Grimm didn't know how to write a woman who actually could think on her own. So what did they do? Turned Adalind from evil woman dependent on a man into a domestic mouse, dependent on Nick. So you're right, she's not even remotely the old version of herself. The new version is worse than the old one.
Bitsie/Juliette/Eve was always contracted to have more screen hours than everyone but Nick and Hank. IMO Grimm ran out of stuff for Bitsie to do so she lost her memory, become the following: a scooby team member, evil hexenbiest, superhero hexenbiest and finally the lead on scooby research and taking risks.
Claire/Adalind always had few screen hours and not could appear in every show. After Claire gave birth it limited her character more than after Bree's had a baby since Bree already was mostly at the spice shop where her newborn would be. Adalind is like her old self since she is just following what her man wants which is not normal here but for a billion women from different cultures around the world would not be shocked.
(04-22-2017, 10:13 PM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ]But I can not believe that Adalind has changed so much. Nobody can change as much as she did, that is unrealistic.
Many in my personal life have change far more than that. This is something I agree with syscrash about. Alalind only changed what man she is following and had children and learn to care and love them. Adalind was never a physical person on the show. Due to Adalind's education she should have known better and never went back to her mother who pressured her to be with Sean.
Many places in the world women have no say about who they marry or live with. If a family sells a women to ISIS and later she gets away for a better life would you see her as unbelievable, brave or evil?
(04-22-2017, 10:36 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (04-22-2017, 04:45 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Well that's a lovely sentiment, but in reality, Adalind's been a failure from day one. She could have been a dynamic evil character, but the creative giants at Grimm didn't know how to write a woman who actually could think on her own. So what did they do? Turned Adalind from evil woman dependent on a man into a domestic mouse, dependent on Nick. So you're right, she's not even remotely the old version of herself. The new version is worse than the old one.
Bitsie/Juliette/Eve was always contracted to have more screen hours than everyone but Nick and Hank. IMO Grimm ran out of stuff for Bitsie to do so she lost her memory, become the following: a scooby team member, evil hexenbiest, superhero hexenbiest and finally the lead on scooby research and taking risks.
Claire/Adalind always had few screen hours and not could appear in every show. After Claire gave birth it limited her character more than after Bree's had a baby since Bree already was mostly at the spice shop where her newborn would be. Adalind is like her old self since she is just following what her man wants which is not normal here but for a billion women from different cultures around the world would not be shocked.
(04-22-2017, 10:13 PM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ]But I can not believe that Adalind has changed so much. Nobody can change as much as she did, that is unrealistic.
Many in my personal life have change far more than that. This is something I agree with syscrash about. Alalind only changed what man she is following and had children and learn to care and love them. Adalind was never a physical person on the show. Due to Adalind's education she should have known better and never went back to her mother who pressured her to be with Sean.
Many places in the world women have no say about who they marry or live with. If a family sells a women to ISIS and later she gets away for a better life would you see her as unbelievable, brave or evil?
Nobody can change as much as she did, that is unrealistic. The old Adalind was different. She was naughty. And now she seems like replaced. No one should place his needs backwards. She is a mother but she is her own person with own needs.
Is Adalind still making sole decisions? Or does she ask first when she decides something?
The Adalind, we have seen is miles away from being herself.
Oh and before I forget - why do Nick and Adalind love each other?