(04-28-2017, 06:55 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 06:13 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think male fantasy involves being injured. With Nick sex was just that until he realised it hurt Juliette not being able to tell the difference. Had it only been about the sex and not the removal of his ability that's the extent of injury Nick would apply to the incident. He felt no personal injury once he realised it was Adalind and it was only for Juliette. If we are talking male fantasy in this case it could be about an innate desire to have sex with someone that wasn't their partner, not being injured after fulfilling such a fantasy. I'm not a man so I can't be accurate in my limited assessment. Nick sleeping with Juliette as Adalind does more in showing this supposed fantasy that Nick perhaps harboured in his subconscious. The personal injury he felt in losing his power is treated as something completely removed from the emotional injury that "He" caused Juliette. I don't even remember Nick being angry about it in the way Adalind was after he killed her hexenbiest. He just seemed sad and bereft like he lost a limb and he was now trying to figure out how to live without but still experienced the effects of a phantom limb that kept him from fully accepting his powerlessness. Adalind spoke about her regrets about what she did to him and Nick said it was an opportunity she gave him to live a normal life. It still sounds as though he doesn't accept the personal injury Adalind dealt him, not even when it's pointed out to him in some capacity.
Edit: This is even more illuminating on Nick's character when you look at his answer when Adalind asks him where their first kiss was. The first answer is the correct one, the kiss in the loft but in Nick's mind he's already reassigned their "kiss" in the Bremen Ruins from S1. Adalind corrects him that it wasn't a kiss but I doubt it registered to him.
So do you believe that if Nick turned the situation around and asked when was the first time they made love, Adalind would reply 'in the fome' rather than 'in your bed?'
Absolutely.
Maybe Nick's head is wired different. When he spoke to Monroe about sleeping with Adalind he mentioned the two twinning spell incidents but he differentiates their time at the loft as something much more personal and significant. So the first time they make love for Nick is also at the loft.
(04-28-2017, 06:59 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 06:55 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 06:13 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think male fantasy involves being injured. With Nick sex was just that until he realised it hurt Juliette not being able to tell the difference. Had it only been about the sex and not the removal of his ability that's the extent of injury Nick would apply to the incident. He felt no personal injury once he realised it was Adalind and it was only for Juliette. If we are talking male fantasy in this case it could be about an innate desire to have sex with someone that wasn't their partner, not being injured after fulfilling such a fantasy. I'm not a man so I can't be accurate in my limited assessment. Nick sleeping with Juliette as Adalind does more in showing this supposed fantasy that Nick perhaps harboured in his subconscious. The personal injury he felt in losing his power is treated as something completely removed from the emotional injury that "He" caused Juliette. I don't even remember Nick being angry about it in the way Adalind was after he killed her hexenbiest. He just seemed sad and bereft like he lost a limb and he was now trying to figure out how to live without but still experienced the effects of a phantom limb that kept him from fully accepting his powerlessness. Adalind spoke about her regrets about what she did to him and Nick said it was an opportunity she gave him to live a normal life. It still sounds as though he doesn't accept the personal injury Adalind dealt him, not even when it's pointed out to him in some capacity.
Edit: This is even more illuminating on Nick's character when you look at his answer when Adalind asks him where their first kiss was. The first answer is the correct one, the kiss in the loft but in Nick's mind he's already reassigned their "kiss" in the Bremen Ruins from S1. Adalind corrects him that it wasn't a kiss but I doubt it registered to him.
So do you believe that if Nick turned the situation around and asked when was the first time they made love, Adalind would reply 'in the fome' rather than 'in your bed?'
Absolutely.
To be honest, based on the answers, I would give Nick points for being honest. In his mind, it was a kiss that took place in the Bremen Ruins, just as it was in his mind that he was making love to Juliette in his bedroom.
(04-28-2017, 05:41 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I understand Nick looking at this from a "we only had sex, what's the big deal?" perspective.......for about 5 minutes. But then he should be putting it all together and wondering what Adalind was doing there. He never, ever did that. It's as though he assumed she was just waiting for this great opportunity to help herself to his bod while Juliette was out. Duh.
Juliette doesn't fair any better in this episode. She seems to be focused on Nick having sex with Adalind, and "well did Nick really, really, really, really know it was Adalind he was forking and he's just not telling me? Okay, I'm going to be sick".
I have to admit you now have me wondering what Nick thought Adalind was doing there. He didn't think he would lose his powers so what did he think her motivation and intent was at the time? I suppose he hadn't registered it back then because of the shock and Juliette letting him have it in the car.
That whole situation wasn't really handled deftly. Nick was more disturbed at how Juliette was reacting rather than what Adalind did to him. She said she would be sick but I didn't get the impression Nick felt that way.
As for Juliette, it did seem like she was disgusted by what Adalind did but she was also sort of semi-accusatory of Nick. That's just the vibe she was giving off. The season 4 premiere went further when she asked Nick if he really, I mean really really, didn't know it was her. It was also weird when she told Monroe and Rosalee that Nick slept with Adalind without giving any context. It was the only time I saw Rosalee about to get legitimately upset with Nick.
(04-28-2017, 07:23 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 05:41 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I understand Nick looking at this from a "we only had sex, what's the big deal?" perspective.......for about 5 minutes. But then he should be putting it all together and wondering what Adalind was doing there. He never, ever did that. It's as though he assumed she was just waiting for this great opportunity to help herself to his bod while Juliette was out. Duh.
Juliette doesn't fair any better in this episode. She seems to be focused on Nick having sex with Adalind, and "well did Nick really, really, really, really know it was Adalind he was forking and he's just not telling me? Okay, I'm going to be sick".
I have to admit you now have me wondering what Nick thought Adalind was doing there. He didn't think he would lose his powers so what did he think her motivation and intent was at the time? I suppose he hadn't registered it back then because of the shock and Juliette letting him have it in the car.
That whole situation wasn't really handled deftly. Nick was more disturbed at how Juliette was reacting rather than what Adalind did to him. She said she would be sick but I didn't get the impression Nick felt that way.
As for Juliette, it did seem like she was disgusted by what Adalind did but she was also sort of semi-accusatory of Nick. That's just the vibe she was giving off. The season 4 premiere went further when she asked Nick if he really, I mean really really, didn't know it was her. It was also weird when she told Monroe and Rosalee that Nick slept with Adalind without giving any context. It was the only time I saw Rosalee about to get legitimately upset with Nick.
I think there's a part of Juliette that's just pissed at Nick for not realizing it wasn't her. She's not going through an involved rationalization of the matter. It may not be entirely fair to Nick, but we don't always act in the most logical manner, when we're hurting. Nick is mostly bewildered by the whole mess, and, like most guys, probably just hoping to avoid the conflict.
(04-28-2017, 07:55 AM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 07:23 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 05:41 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I understand Nick looking at this from a "we only had sex, what's the big deal?" perspective.......for about 5 minutes. But then he should be putting it all together and wondering what Adalind was doing there. He never, ever did that. It's as though he assumed she was just waiting for this great opportunity to help herself to his bod while Juliette was out. Duh.
Juliette doesn't fair any better in this episode. She seems to be focused on Nick having sex with Adalind, and "well did Nick really, really, really, really know it was Adalind he was forking and he's just not telling me? Okay, I'm going to be sick".
I have to admit you now have me wondering what Nick thought Adalind was doing there. He didn't think he would lose his powers so what did he think her motivation and intent was at the time? I suppose he hadn't registered it back then because of the shock and Juliette letting him have it in the car.
That whole situation wasn't really handled deftly. Nick was more disturbed at how Juliette was reacting rather than what Adalind did to him. She said she would be sick but I didn't get the impression Nick felt that way.
As for Juliette, it did seem like she was disgusted by what Adalind did but she was also sort of semi-accusatory of Nick. That's just the vibe she was giving off. The season 4 premiere went further when she asked Nick if he really, I mean really really, didn't know it was her. It was also weird when she told Monroe and Rosalee that Nick slept with Adalind without giving any context. It was the only time I saw Rosalee about to get legitimately upset with Nick.
I think there's a part of Juliette that's just pissed at Nick for not realizing it wasn't her. She's not going through an involved rationalization of the matter. It may not be entirely fair to Nick, but we don't always act in the most logical manner, when we're hurting. Nick is mostly bewildered by the whole mess, and, like most guys, probably just hoping to avoid the conflict.
Which would have contributed to him not coming forth about wanting his powers back because he was trying to avoid further conflict with Juliette.
(04-28-2017, 07:23 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]I have to admit you now have me wondering what Nick thought Adalind was doing there. He didn't think he would lose his powers so what did he think her motivation and intent was at the time? I suppose he hadn't registered it back then because of the shock and Juliette letting him have it in the car.
That whole situation wasn't really handled deftly. Nick was more disturbed at how Juliette was reacting rather than what Adalind did to him. She said she would be sick but I didn't get the impression Nick felt that way.
As for Juliette, it did seem like she was disgusted by what Adalind did but she was also sort of semi-accusatory of Nick. That's just the vibe she was giving off. The season 4 premiere went further when she asked Nick if he really, I mean really really, didn't know it was her. It was also weird when she told Monroe and Rosalee that Nick slept with Adalind without giving any context. It was the only time I saw Rosalee about to get legitimately upset with Nick.
The whoe episode was handled badly. I understand Juliette being hurt, Adalind invaded their privacy bigtime. I don't, however, see how badgering Nick is going to help that hurdle. I also thought she was a big weenie for threatening to throw up. She should have shut up and began thinking of how to cope with this disaster.
Nick's reaction to me is among the strangest to me though. It's almost as though he's looking for a way to really make Juliette mad and so deliberately shuts down. It makes me wonder if he was starting to consider ways in which to dump her.
(04-28-2017, 08:07 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 07:55 AM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 07:23 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 05:41 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I understand Nick looking at this from a "we only had sex, what's the big deal?" perspective.......for about 5 minutes. But then he should be putting it all together and wondering what Adalind was doing there. He never, ever did that. It's as though he assumed she was just waiting for this great opportunity to help herself to his bod while Juliette was out. Duh.
Juliette doesn't fair any better in this episode. She seems to be focused on Nick having sex with Adalind, and "well did Nick really, really, really, really know it was Adalind he was forking and he's just not telling me? Okay, I'm going to be sick".
I have to admit you now have me wondering what Nick thought Adalind was doing there. He didn't think he would lose his powers so what did he think her motivation and intent was at the time? I suppose he hadn't registered it back then because of the shock and Juliette letting him have it in the car.
That whole situation wasn't really handled deftly. Nick was more disturbed at how Juliette was reacting rather than what Adalind did to him. She said she would be sick but I didn't get the impression Nick felt that way.
As for Juliette, it did seem like she was disgusted by what Adalind did but she was also sort of semi-accusatory of Nick. That's just the vibe she was giving off. The season 4 premiere went further when she asked Nick if he really, I mean really really, didn't know it was her. It was also weird when she told Monroe and Rosalee that Nick slept with Adalind without giving any context. It was the only time I saw Rosalee about to get legitimately upset with Nick.
I think there's a part of Juliette that's just pissed at Nick for not realizing it wasn't her. She's not going through an involved rationalization of the matter. It may not be entirely fair to Nick, but we don't always act in the most logical manner, when we're hurting. Nick is mostly bewildered by the whole mess, and, like most guys, probably just hoping to avoid the conflict.
Which would have contributed to him not coming forth about wanting his powers back because he was trying to avoid further conflict with Juliette.
I also think he may have felt as if he owed it to her, to give normality a try. He waited for it to be her decision. Had the drama with Monroe and Rosalee not occurred, I'm not sure how long he would have avoided the subject.
(04-28-2017, 08:16 AM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 08:07 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 07:55 AM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 07:23 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 05:41 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I understand Nick looking at this from a "we only had sex, what's the big deal?" perspective.......for about 5 minutes. But then he should be putting it all together and wondering what Adalind was doing there. He never, ever did that. It's as though he assumed she was just waiting for this great opportunity to help herself to his bod while Juliette was out. Duh.
Juliette doesn't fair any better in this episode. She seems to be focused on Nick having sex with Adalind, and "well did Nick really, really, really, really know it was Adalind he was forking and he's just not telling me? Okay, I'm going to be sick".
I have to admit you now have me wondering what Nick thought Adalind was doing there. He didn't think he would lose his powers so what did he think her motivation and intent was at the time? I suppose he hadn't registered it back then because of the shock and Juliette letting him have it in the car.
That whole situation wasn't really handled deftly. Nick was more disturbed at how Juliette was reacting rather than what Adalind did to him. She said she would be sick but I didn't get the impression Nick felt that way.
As for Juliette, it did seem like she was disgusted by what Adalind did but she was also sort of semi-accusatory of Nick. That's just the vibe she was giving off. The season 4 premiere went further when she asked Nick if he really, I mean really really, didn't know it was her. It was also weird when she told Monroe and Rosalee that Nick slept with Adalind without giving any context. It was the only time I saw Rosalee about to get legitimately upset with Nick.
I think there's a part of Juliette that's just pissed at Nick for not realizing it wasn't her. She's not going through an involved rationalization of the matter. It may not be entirely fair to Nick, but we don't always act in the most logical manner, when we're hurting. Nick is mostly bewildered by the whole mess, and, like most guys, probably just hoping to avoid the conflict.
Which would have contributed to him not coming forth about wanting his powers back because he was trying to avoid further conflict with Juliette.
I also think he may have felt as if he owed it to her, to give normality a try. He waited for it to be her decision. Had the drama with Monroe and Rosalee not occurred, I'm not sure how long he would have avoided the subject.
He would have cracked and revealed his true feelings in a moment of frustration. And I think that would have hurt them emotionally much more profoundly before the hexenbiest problem occurred.
(04-27-2017, 09:14 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2017, 08:41 PM)Mrtrick Wrote: [ -> ]Nick didn't consider it a male fantasy...It is a male fantasy. This is predicated on the writers view of events. Nick's perspective is filtered through that. Meaning, he sees it in basic terms. Without the qualification of an external viewpoint, the fantasy aspect only represents itself as normalization. Not in the sense that the circumstances aren't bizarre, but rather in the notion that the act itself was not transgressive toward his psyche. To him, the sex was like any sex. It's in his relationship to Juliette that this carries an emotional burden for him. That he cares at all, is indicative of his feelings for Juliette. If she tried to convince him that this was sexual assault, she would simply be projecting her own feelings on him. And perhaps Nick was a doofus in this moment, but if so, he's was just the standard male doofus.
So the male fantasy here is having their woman have sex with them and then severely injure them afterwards?
I think you're over complicating male fantasy. The event in which Adalind would look like Juliette and have sex with Nick, represents the fantasy. The aftermath and circumstances this incident would serve are the necessities of plot. Imagine a discussion in the writer's room where they say, "How can we steal Nick's powers and explore the drama resulting from that?" And in response, someone says, "Hey, I've got a naughty idea." The fantasy remains encapsulated in the act. Just like Nick's emotional relationship to the event remains seperate from the resulting drama, so to does the writerly approach to emotional fallout.
(04-28-2017, 08:09 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2017, 07:23 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]I have to admit you now have me wondering what Nick thought Adalind was doing there. He didn't think he would lose his powers so what did he think her motivation and intent was at the time? I suppose he hadn't registered it back then because of the shock and Juliette letting him have it in the car.
That whole situation wasn't really handled deftly. Nick was more disturbed at how Juliette was reacting rather than what Adalind did to him. She said she would be sick but I didn't get the impression Nick felt that way.
As for Juliette, it did seem like she was disgusted by what Adalind did but she was also sort of semi-accusatory of Nick. That's just the vibe she was giving off. The season 4 premiere went further when she asked Nick if he really, I mean really really, didn't know it was her. It was also weird when she told Monroe and Rosalee that Nick slept with Adalind without giving any context. It was the only time I saw Rosalee about to get legitimately upset with Nick.
The whoe episode was handled badly. I understand Juliette being hurt, Adalind invaded their privacy bigtime. I don't, however, see how badgering Nick is going to help that hurdle. I also thought she was a big weenie for threatening to throw up. She should have shut up and began thinking of how to cope with this disaster.
Nick's reaction to me is among the strangest to me though. It's almost as though he's looking for a way to really make Juliette mad and so deliberately shuts down. It makes me wonder if he was starting to consider ways in which to dump her.
I don't think he was looking to dump her but he was probably walking on egg shells during that period, afraid to appear as though he wanted to dive back into that world that, according to her, had almost ruined their life together. Nick focused too much on how this affected her and was trying to preserve their relationship as best as he thought he could. So he gave normalcy a try instead of being truthful with Juliette about how he'd been affected by what Adalind did to him.