(01-17-2018, 05:38 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]In every story read from the book. There was one thing in common. The wesen being talked about had killed someone. That does not mean that there where not Grimms that killed wesen out of a prejudice against wesen. According to the stories a number of them the Grimm observed that it was part of what allowed them to survive or for some other none malicious reason. Some of the stories even pointed out it was a defense mechanism. But no matter the reason the result was the Grimm killed the wesen. From what Kelly and Mari said, I got the impression that their family would hunt certain wesen because of what they could do not because of what that wesen had done. For example they knew Blutbod had a habit of hinting humans so if they ran into a blutbod they would kill them thinking if they hadn't they would kill someone.
This idea of doing preventive kills was the point of the episode where the wesen would kill kids he know where going to grow to be killers. Basically it was a version of the minority report. They problem with any discussion about the morality of that practice is, it is not possible to determine what the future holds. What make the argument even worse is if you examine all the possibilities beyond the single point. what if you could determine someone would be a killer. So you kill them. What if by killing them prevents this person from killing someone even worse then they are.
So grimms perform proactive murder of men, woman and children because of the possibility these wesen might kill humans. That sounds like a lot of prejudice to me.
Irk, what Grimm on the show actually killed innocent wesen other than in the books centreries before, Monroe’s family hunted humans in the past, Mauvais Dentes wiped out entire villages in the past, many wesen killed innocents in the past just like grimms I don’t hear you constantly going on about thier crimes.
The show seem to keep rampant murder/Wesen annihilation by Grimm in the past. Kelly was the closest to old school Grimm, but although she held an inherent dislike/distrust of all Wesen, she directed her energy to high risk Wesen, not Bud type Wesen.
Marie was presented in the pilot as being more open minded about Wesen, targeting only the dangerous ones, much like human law enforcement is expected to only target known or suspected criminal behavior and keep their personal bias out of their work. Nick was much more a Marie type Grimm than a Kelly type Grimm. Other than Trubel, who received most of her training/education from Nick, Monroe, Rosalee, and later HW; were other Grimm ever part of an episode?
Monroe’s and Rosalee’s attitudes toward dangerous Wesen is an important consideration in this discussion. Early on, Monroe told Nick to stop thinking like a cop and deal with dangerous Wesen as a Grimm. They were actively supportive of Nick behaving like a Grimm against threats - Wesen, the Royals, and his former girlfriend turned Hexenbiest - and didn’t worry about infringing on culture or denying an individual his/her due process.
Quote:So grimms perform proactive murder of men, woman and children because of the possibility these wesen might kill humans. That sounds like a lot of prejudice to me.
From what Mari said that would only pertain to the bad one. I did not get the impression Mari would go after an Eisbiber but without doubt she would go after a blutbad. To me prejudice would be to go after all wesen even if they are not violent.
(01-18-2018, 08:10 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:So grimms perform proactive murder of men, woman and children because of the possibility these wesen might kill humans. That sounds like a lot of prejudice to me.
From what Mari said that would only pertain to the bad one. I did not get the impression Mari would go after an Eisbiber but without doubt she would go after a blutbad. To me prejudice would be to go after all wesen even if they are not violent.
Monroe belonged to the Church of the Reformed Blutbad. Kelly fought with Monroe and and Rosalee because she didn't know they had converted. Monroe's mom and dad attacked Nick even tho Nick was obviously a friend. If you have been bitten by one snake you kill all snakes. Monroe's uncle knew that Monroe and The Grimm were friends so he did not fear Nick. Truble was unknown, so he voged. For me, all these examples were not prejudices but reactions to known learned threats. Monroe's parents and Kelly all learned not to attack but to overcome former fears.
(01-18-2018, 08:52 AM)eric Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2018, 08:10 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:So grimms perform proactive murder of men, woman and children because of the possibility these wesen might kill humans. That sounds like a lot of prejudice to me.
From what Mari said that would only pertain to the bad one. I did not get the impression Mari would go after an Eisbiber but without doubt she would go after a blutbad. To me prejudice would be to go after all wesen even if they are not violent.
Monroe belonged to the Church of the Reformed Blutbad. Kelly fought with Monroe and and Rosalee because she didn't know they had converted. Monroe's mom and dad attacked Nick even tho Nick was obviously a friend. If you have been bitten by one snake you kill all snakes. Monroe's uncle knew that Monroe and The Grimm were friends so he did not fear Nick. Truble was unknown, so he voged. For me, all these examples were not prejudices but reactions to known learned threats. Monroe's parents and Kelly all learned not to attack but to overcome former fears.
Hi Eric,
I believe you are correct:
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Blutbad
Quote:Some Blutbaden choose not to live this violent lifestyle, reform, and attend a different church. They are known as Wieder Blutbaden.
Monroe retained his combat skills to use for protection of himself and those he cared about. I consider him a stand-up guy. Nick and Monroe shared views about decency, honesty and ethics especially about use of deadly force. They easily bonded as friends.
N G
Marie broke off her engagement to a steinadler to raise Nick, so she was obviously making distinctions between good and bad wesen.
Kelly just ran in dangerous circles once she went underground. A lot of people she interacted with, wesen and kehrseite, were probably people she ended up killing.
Finally, we see the purpose of this thread and how it was directed to proclaim the show, Grimm, to some, should have been called, Nick, The Grimm Murdering Cop.
Gees, all this to try to prove a convoluted opinion on a fictional fantasy show? Someone needs to be booked on the Dr. Phil Show.
(01-18-2018, 08:52 AM)eric Wrote: [ -> ]If you have been bitten by one snake you kill all snakes.
This is an interesting analogy, and similar to syscrash's earlier post.
Aunt Marie tells Nick he has to hunt down the "bad" wesen.
I thought there was something somewhere where Monroe talks about Marie killing his great grandmother and putting her head on a spike. I seem to recall Monroe being less than ecstatic about Nick asking him to watch over Marie in the hospital. Monroe's opinion is very like your analogy and syscrash's statement. Grimm are bad news and he's afraid for his safety even though Marie's very sick and in the hospital.
Monroe is knowledgeable on grimms and he's taking the position that Marie sees all blutbad as bad. Therefore, she's going to kill them whether they've committed a crime or not.
I don't agree with the statement that this is just a reaction to known learned threats. It is a prejudice. Not all people who have been bitten by a snakes deliberately go out of their way to kill the species.
(01-18-2018, 05:44 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]Irk, what Grimm on the show actually killed innocent wesen other than in the books centreries before, Monroe’s family hunted humans in the past, Mauvais Dentes wiped out entire villages in the past, many wesen killed innocents in the past just like grimms I don’t hear you constantly going on about thier crimes.
henry, why would I? Don't you think there are enough posters here who take that tactic already?
When Monroe was watching over Marie, he told her, "you people killed my grandfather."
A lot of what humans, wesen and grimms believe about each other is the result of centuries of manipulation. In ancient times, royals used wesen as troops and grimms as handlers, so wesen ended up seeing grimms the way slaves viewed overseers. Then the grimms fell out with the royals, the royals sicced the verrat on them, and wandering and often fugitive grimms got used to seeing wesen as constant threats. Humans used to be more aware of the existence of wesen, but believed they were demonic, and as the Church grew in power to the point where it could often challenge royal families, it was all too happy to encourage the masses to believe in demons.