To understand the relationship between wesen and Grimm. think of Grimm as hunters and wesen as you would a wild animal. What keep clouding the discussion is because wesen can communicate and like like humans. People keep wanting to judge the interactions from a human point of view.
they show has made it clear wesen natural behavior is the same as the animal they represent. The show makes the point, beavers build wolves hunt. Even when you have domesticated wesen like Monroe and Rosalee. there have been episode when they return to there natural nature.
A good example of them reverting, is during a confrontation both have no problem ripping a throat out with their fangs. Perfect evidence that they are not human in their actions or thinking. What human do you know that would rip someones throat out and not have it effect them mentally.
People want to make Juliette this murderous monster. They fail to see the writers showing her transformation from human thinking to wesen thinking. At first she had a problem with killing. The more she became a wesen the less it bothered her. by the end of season five. She had transformed to accept death the same as Monroe and Rosalee. Name one time where Rosalee or Monroe or any wesen showed any aversion to the rule of kill or be killed. A number of times they told Nick he needed to solve the problem as a Grimm.
It is this animalistic out look on life is why I see Grimm more as wesen then human. Nick is the only Grimm on the show that had a problem with killing. Trubel without a doubt lied up to the Grimm reputation. The same with Mari and Kelly. Even Rolex's natural Grimm instincts kicked in when the varret attacked. Nick started to use the reputation but never gave in to the nature. Take Kenneth for example. Killing Kenneth bothered Nick. Trubel would have taken his head off and then went to lunch.
I see grimms and wesen as analogs for the way humans of different backgrounds view and interact with each other when their histories include periods of oppression and revenge. You really don't have to look very hard to find groups of people in the real world whose interactions are based on them having such histories that result in the same feelings of resentment and suspicion toward each other.
Quote:To understand the relationship between wesen and Grimm. think of Grimm as hunters and wesen as you would a wild animal…
I don’t think the difference between Wesen, Grimm, and human was that black and white as the show made of point of differentiating between good guy and bad guy Wesen. Monroe killed the men who murdered his uncle and Nick killed the man who murdered his mother. Their methods used to kill their enemies may be different but their motivation was the same - revenge fueled by anger and heartache.
S5 gave us a glimpse of Wesen feeling suppressed, denied the right to be who/what they are without fear of retaliation. The bad guy WoW was often presented as compelled to act on primal instincts that contradict societal norms. Both scenarios parallel real life.
(01-18-2018, 10:06 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]Humans used to be more aware of the existence of wesen, but believed they were demonic, and as the Church grew in power to the point where it could often challenge royal families, it was all too happy to encourage the masses to believe in demons.
No, I don't think so. If there was some DaVinci code premise going on in Grimm, I'm sure by series' end we would have known about it. The whole awareness theory seems to be between the grimm and the wesen themselves and both also seem content to keep it that way.
Kelly and Marie were trained by their father,Kelly was guided by her father's laws while Marie,at some point in his life she began to question what she was doing, maybe she became more open than his sister, that not all of them were murderers.
(01-18-2018, 11:50 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]To understand the relationship between wesen and Grimm. think of Grimm as hunters and wesen as you would a wild animal. What keep clouding the discussion is because wesen can communicate and like like humans. People keep wanting to judge the interactions from a human point of view.
they show has made it clear wesen natural behavior is the same as the animal they represent. The show makes the point, beavers build wolves hunt. Even when you have domesticated wesen like Monroe and Rosalee. there have been episode when they return to there natural nature.
A good example of them reverting, is during a confrontation both have no problem ripping a throat out with their fangs. Perfect evidence that they are not human in their actions or thinking. What human do you know that would rip someones throat out and not have it effect them mentally.
People want to make Juliette this murderous monster. They fail to see the writers showing her transformation from human thinking to wesen thinking. At first she had a problem with killing. The more she became a wesen the less it bothered her. by the end of season five. She had transformed to accept death the same as Monroe and Rosalee. Name one time where Rosalee or Monroe or any wesen showed any aversion to the rule of kill or be killed. A number of times they told Nick he needed to solve the problem as a Grimm.
It is this animalistic out look on life is why I see Grimm more as wesen then human. Nick is the only Grimm on the show that had a problem with killing. Trubel without a doubt lied up to the Grimm reputation. The same with Mari and Kelly. Even Rolex's natural Grimm instincts kicked in when the varret attacked. Nick started to use the reputation but never gave in to the nature. Take Kenneth for example. Killing Kenneth bothered Nick. Trubel would have taken his head off and then went to lunch.
You are way over simplifying things, wesen aren’t fully wild they are part human and show just as many if not more human tirats than wild traits. Plus you have to remember humans are after all the evilest and most destructive animal on earth and the Royal humans on the show were as vile if not more vile than most wesen. Adalind was at her kindest when she was a hexenbiest in late season 5 and season 6 and she was at her most vile when she was a human in season 2.
G & K didn’t give the impression of being clever enough to pull off FitC’s analogy, and were certainly more interested in Grimm vs. Wesen action sequences than examining cultural evolution. But, to discuss issues such as police corruption and the characters’ negative reflections of their lineage, we have to look beyond those contrived action scenes and focus on centuries of evolution that created the current day characters.
For the most part, Portland’s human residents were presented as ignoring the unexplainable. Considering the number of violent Wesen Nick dealt with over six seasons, it’s not believable there wouldn’t have been humans who refused to remain silent after witnessing or escaping brutal attacks by huge animal like creatures. Yet, I don’t recall Nick worrying about some guy who wouldn’t stop talking or being hounded by a reporter who thought there might be something worth a closer look.
In contrast, the existence of HW established that certain levels of government not only knew about Wesen and Grimm but were prepared to deal with Wesen issues that threatened to disrupt the status quo. Yet, any spillover of the HW/BC conflict was evidently satisfactorily explain to the human residents or they completely missed it happening in their city.
(01-19-2018, 05:40 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]No, I don't think so. If there was some DaVinci code premise going on in Grimm, I'm sure by series' end we would have known about it. The whole awareness theory seems to be between the grimm and the wesen themselves and both also seem content to keep it that way.
An unnamed Pope kept furis rubians chained in a basement in the Vatican and put them on display to keep fear of the devil going.
Quote:For the most part, Portland’s human residents were presented as ignoring the unexplainable. Considering the number of violent Wesen Nick dealt with over six seasons, it’s not believable there wouldn’t have been humans who refused to remain silent after witnessing or escaping brutal attacks by huge animal like creatures. Yet, I don’t recall Nick worrying about some guy who wouldn’t stop talking or being hounded by a reporter who thought there might be something worth a closer look.
In contrast, the existence of HW established that certain levels of government not only knew about Wesen and Grimm but were prepared to deal with Wesen issues that threatened to disrupt the status quo. Yet, any spillover of the HW/BC conflict was evidently satisfactorily explain to the human residents or they completely missed it happening in their city.
I can disprove your theory with one word UFO abductions. Most of the population ignore and don't believe these claims. Yet have have a number of group that consider themselves UFO hunters. You also have funding by the government for UFO projects. Replace UFO with wesen and you see why their existence would not change the population of Portland. You would also see how you could have a government sponsored organization like HW. Without the government acknowledging that wesen exist.
Consider knowing someone is an alien how long do you think it would take before either some group would want to kill it for rear of an invasion. Or the government would put it in a cage to study it. This is what the show uses as an explanation why wesen do not expose that they exist.
You would think that all the unexplained death we saw on the show would raise suspension. That is until you do research and realize that what we saw is a drop in the buck to the unexplained deaths and events that happen in real life. Take spontaneous combustion. Scientist have come up with all kind of theories how it occurs but they really do not know.
(01-19-2018, 06:13 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]I can disprove your theory with one word UFO abductions. Most of the population ignore and don't believe these claims. Yet have have a number of group that consider themselves UFO hunters. You also have funding by the government for UFO projects. Replace UFO with wesen and you see why their existence would not change the population of Portland. You would also see how you could have a government sponsored organization like HW. Without the government acknowledging that wesen exist.
Consider knowing someone is an alien how long do you think it would take before either some group would want to kill it for rear of an invasion. Or the government would put it in a cage to study it. This is what the show uses as an explanation why wesen do not expose that they exist.
You would think that all the unexplained death we saw on the show would raise suspension. That is until you do research and realize that what we saw is a drop in the buck to the unexplained deaths and events that happen in real life. Take spontaneous combustion. Scientist have come up with all kind of theories how it occurs but they really do not know.
It's not difficult to voice disbelief in UFOs and abductee claims. I don't believe anything happened at Roswell. If it had, one of the things the US would have done was to immediately adopt the technology that space ship would have afforded. If we had, we would have been on Mars decades ago instead of still contemplating what it would take to get there today.
As for the series, almost all current day normal humans have never been given the luxury of ignoring wesen. The series, for the most part, ignores the normal human and takes the position that every human would be so scared of wesen that they'd wet their pants and then run for their lives.
If wesen wanted to woge in public there is no government on earth that could stop them. What I think is, despite the hoopla, the woge really is a trip to temporary insanity and that's why wesen keep it to themselves.