Grimm Forum

Quote:We don't know that. In point of fact, we don't even know if it's true. Monroe himself said it was not "so common" knowledge. One wonders how he come by it then.

What seems to corroborate that the furis rubians were somehow in on this whole Pope thing, is the episode, The Believer. Dwight used his wesen woge to simulate the devil. These supposed imprisoned furis rubians did exactly the same thing. The end result for Dwight was the same as the furis rubians. Apparently many believed they were devils and neither refused the money that came their way. They both perpetrated a fraud.

The biggest problem with your point of view is you fail to consider. Grimm is a scripted show. That means what is said is not opinion of the character. When Monroe was delivering the line. That was the writers providing narrative so the viewers would have some back story.

I have noticed there are many post where people argue about the validity of what a character says. The arguments sound like someone debating a conversation they heard. My point every word on this show, every facial expression, or reaction is determined by the writers. They are not the feelings of the character or the actor. This is the same point I keep making when the discussion turns toward a characters actions. People argue as if it was the characters choice. The discussion should be what the writers are trying to portray.

(01-21-2018, 04:05 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:We don't know that. In point of fact, we don't even know if it's true. Monroe himself said it was not "so common" knowledge. One wonders how he come by it then.

What seems to corroborate that the furis rubians were somehow in on this whole Pope thing, is the episode, The Believer. Dwight used his wesen woge to simulate the devil. These supposed imprisoned furis rubians did exactly the same thing. The end result for Dwight was the same as the furis rubians. Apparently many believed they were devils and neither refused the money that came their way. They both perpetrated a fraud.

The biggest problem with your point of view is you fail to consider. Grimm is a scripted show. That means what is said is not opinion of the character. When Monroe was delivering the line. That was the writers providing narrative so the viewers would have some back story.

I have noticed there are many post where people argue about the validity of what a character says. The arguments sound like someone debating a conversation they heard. My point every word on this show, every facial expression, or reaction is determined by the writers. They are not the feelings of the character or the actor. This is the same point I keep making when the discussion turns toward a characters actions. People argue as if it was the characters choice. The discussion should be what the writers are trying to portray.

Of what value was Monroe's statement to the episode?

Every show and movie is scripted and expresses the writers’ intent for their characters. But to take such a completely analytical approach, one’s time would be better spent in a writing class. The creative team wants viewers sufficiently drawn into their stories to believe real people are experiencing real life - at least for 42 minutes. If a character is never considered anything more than the writers’ illustration, his/her triumph, heartache, and death won’t impact viewers. A replacement character can simply be inserted to continue the scripted story.

So while I agree with you, syscrash, that understanding the characters and the story requires also understanding the writers’ intent, I don’t think that in itself answers many of the reflective questions that often arise.

Monroe's statement established historical precedent for people seeing furis rubians and believing they were manifestations of Satan. It also adds one more factoid in support of the historical abuse and exploitation of wesen that resulted in wesen wanting to keep their existence secret from kehrseite, not that they did anything with it in this episode.

(01-21-2018, 05:07 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]Monroe's statement established historical precedent for people seeing furis rubians and believing they were manifestations of Satan. It also adds one more factoid in support of the historical abuse and exploitation of wesen that resulted in wesen wanting to keep their existence secret from kehrseite, not that they did anything with it in this episode.

Right. It was totally pointless for this episode.

A lot of the things Monroe says are pointless. But the question of whether his encyclopedic collection of trivia is necessary or relevant is not the same as whether it's correct. And there are very few instances (offhand, I can't think of any) where something Monroe offers up as a fact is proven to be inaccurate.

Going to pass on that one until I look up some inaccurate facts as stated by Monroe.

There are instances where Monroe didn't know or wasn't sure about something (these were usually preludes to a trip to the Spice Shop so Rosalee could deliver the info), and there's at least one case (the grausen) where it turned out that everything that everyone thought they knew about something turned out to be wrong. But mostly, bits of trivia Monroe spouted were just that, trivia, that fleshed out the background of what was going to happen. So they were never tested, and of course contradiction wouldn't happen unless a major plot turn depended on it.

I will admit watching movies and reading books. I see the characters as an extension of the writer. To me shows have two things. One they try and make a point. The second is to create excitement through contrived scenarios. Unless something is a documentary I do not look for the psychology of the characters. That is because their opinions are contrived and not formulated like they would be in a documentary or non fiction.

That is why I find it so strange that people keep wanting to make an argument for what the character is thinking. Yet ignore what the writers is trying to say. True the show expresses many moral and ideological views. But that does not make the show a lesson in morality. Most things on the show are done for it's entertainment value, with no regard to making a societal statement. Being in a world of fantasy eliminates the ability to draw judgment on things that deal with life of death. It also eliminates the boundaries of right or wrong. It is why Grimm and other shows can create as much mayhem and destruction that they want and still be considered the hero. Yet people constantly want to argue the Nick is corrupt.

Yes I understand the need to suspend disbelief. I also understand the need to become invested in the character. What I don't get is the argument of evaluating the character as though they are real. You can't even argue the events objectively because the show does not define the rules of the fantasy universe of Grimm. Add to that the world they do define changes from season to season. I good example was in season one Monroe made the statement that Nick becoming a Grimm was because his aunt was dying. That rule has changed. Another rule that changed was hexenbiest. In season one they where wesen with potions. It was not till later seasons that magic was introduced. Once introduced they keep ramping up the possibilities.

I enjoy the show even have all the DVD and have watch portions of it many times. There are certain segments of the story I find exciting. But mostly I rewatch it for the action scenes. I will admit if it was a book I would not read it twice. In fact I would not have finished it the first time. The main reason is the lack of character development. Plus the lack of story foundation. That is the reason why the writers find the need to provide narrative to establish perspective. But to me that is not a problem because the show was only meant to be an action / horror entertainment vehicle.

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The point is Monroe and Rosalee purpose was to provide back story to the WOW. That makes what every they say very accurate from the writers point of view. For the most part the writers did try an make the historical references accurate. But even if they are not. We are to consider that they are. The writers will bend the truth to make the point fit the WOW story they are telling.

(01-21-2018, 11:08 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]The point is Monroe and Rosalee purpose was to provide back story to the WOW. That makes what every they say very accurate from the writers point of view. For the most part the writers did try an make the historical references accurate. But even if they are not. We are to consider that they are. The writers will bend the truth to make the point fit the WOW story they are telling.

What backstory? The Pope supposedly had them chained in the basement. Then some mysterious people took them across country where they "woged" on queue to frighten the faithful. Oh, and then a lot of alms were collected.

There is nothing in that story that gives a background or in any way remotely applies to Dwight, the tent revival preacher.

All you're saying is that everything that comes out of Monroe's mouth is accurate.