Grimm Forum

I have a question. What was Kelly planning? In other words, in your opinion, what was going through her mind when she got the email?

There's another alternative: Juliette simply deluded herself into thinking Kenneth would just knock Kelly out cold, or something along those lines. Hexenbiests are supposed to be notorious liars, so it would only make sense for them to lie to themselves as well.

(07-19-2016, 09:33 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I have a question. What was Kelly planning? In other words, in your opinion, what was going through her mind when she got the email?

Hello Irukandji,
Hexenette's e-mail to Kelly read:"Nick’s in trouble. If you don’t come, he may be killed. The house is safe." Kelly replies immediately: "On my way." It seems that without hesitation she got Diana in the car and headed back to Portland. The Kelly we knew would have thought that it could be a set up. IMO, the writers knew Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio would not be available, so they took the easy way out and turned the most savvy character into a fool, then killed her off.
New Guy

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(07-19-2016, 09:33 AM)Hexenadler Wrote: [ -> ]There's another alternative: Juliette simply deluded herself into thinking Kenneth would just knock Kelly out cold, or something along those lines. Hexenbiests are supposed to be notorious liars, so it would only make sense for them to lie to themselves as well.

Howdy Hex,
You make an interesting point. The delusional Hexenette may have thought Kenneth stationed his Verrat thugs so that when Kelly arrived with Diana they could "surprise" her, grill some burgers and dogs, enjoy a cold brew, take some target practice shooting the watermelon and walk away with Diana. Kelly would just get back in her car to drive away after enjoying a fun time with Hexenette and her new FWB (Kenny Boy.) She wouldn't even give a thought to Nick or the "trouble" he was in.
New Guy

Since the show provided use with an example of how a group of armed men could make an abduction without killing anyone. Why would it be reasonable for Juliette to think Diana's abduction would not go the same way. Do people even question why the show put the two abductions back to back. Remember the show is scripted by definition that eliminates coincidence. The writers made an effort to dissuade the perception of Juliette planing to kill Kelly. What would be the reason to write the scenario with plausible denial if the intent was guilt.

(07-19-2016, 10:18 AM)New Guy Wrote: [ -> ]Hexenette's e-mail to Kelly read:"Nick’s in trouble. If you don’t come, he may be killed. The house is safe." Kelly replies immediately: "On my way." It seems that without hesitation she got Diana in the car and headed back to Portland. The Kelly we knew would have thought that it could be a set up. IMO, the writers knew Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio would not be available, so they took the easy way out and turned the most savvy character into a fool, then killed her off.
New Guy

Wouldn't it stand to reason then that other plot elements were changed to reflect MEM's exit from the series as well?

Irukandji wrote

Quote:Wouldn't it stand to reason then that other plot elements were changed to reflect MEM's exit from the series as well?

pure speculation on my part. I think the intention was to have Diana sitting in the middle of the floor like she was. Except Kenneth comes in sees her, is confused while Kelly starts to attack. Letting us know she knew it was a setup. And was trying to change the situation by eliminating the threat to Nick. Without Mastrantonio they could not film the attack. Just changing Kelly being the attacker instead of being attacked would have been in keeping with the character.

Juliette was getting revenge on Nick for helping a pregnant Adalind and nothing else, so she set up his mother to be slaughtered and needs to die!

(03-13-2016, 04:48 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I tend to think there might have been other things going and those things are what brought Kelly to Nick's house, but I can't prove them. What it looks like to me is that Juliette was set up to take the fall on this, probably so that she wouldn't have any alternative but to join HW.

This is interesting, and I think maybe touched on in another discussion. To me it’s a likely scenario, and the trail of events supports it.

Someone in the Resistance hired Kelly to take Adalind and the baby to the next scheduled agent/location. Venetian confronted Renard about a rumor that the Resistance took the baby from Viktor while in Portland. Viktor made a deal with the Resistance - Diana in exchange for killing the King.

If the Resistance hadn’t already figured out Kelly took the baby, Viktor’s deal brought them up to speed. Meisner was already working with HW at that point. Trubel confirmed HW had Nick & the others under surveillance for a while and knew about Juliette and Adalind & the second pregnancy.

It’s completely reasonable that Meisner/the Resistance/HW decided to sacrifice, or at least gamble Kelly’s survival, in order to get Diana back in their possession and hopefully gain a super powerful agent/soldier. Meisner is the type that could look Nick in the eye and extend genuine concern for his loss, but never be compelled to tell him the facts surrounding his mother’s death.

(03-13-2016, 04:48 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-13-2016, 04:23 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]Note : this question is also to show that the show runners put elements in the show to allow us to believe that Juliette was manipulating Nick. The same works for Adelaind...

Henrietta did say that, but I continue to look at Juliette's actions. She didn't once manipulate Nick during the time she was becoming a hexenbiest and she certainly had many opportunities to do so. Look at the time when she woged and he was repulsed. All she would have had to do was stay in her human form, kiss the crap out of him, and he would have been putty in her hands. In my opinion, the encounter in the spice shop would have been a tremendous opportunity for Juliette to show just how manipulative she could be. She could have had all of the scoobies under control.

Yet she went in there more curious than anything to see what the they were up to. Even then, she only defended herself when she viewed their actions as an attack. She never used manipulation as a weapon.

And in thinking about this one factor, this might be another reason why Nick believed her when she said she didn't know Kenneth was going to murder Kelly. She never tried to use obvious and much more persuasive hexenbiest measures on him.

I agree Juliette is never seen trying to influence how Nick feels about her and the Hexenbiest dilemma. But how much would manipulating Nick benefit Juliette long term? Does the manipulation have lasting effects? Once Juliette left the Spice Shop would she still have control over Nick or would it wear off? If I remember correctly, the Hexenbiests at the law firm manipulated people into contract agreements, but Adalind wasn’t able to manipulate Hank’s feelings for her. I don’t recall Adalind ever trying to manipulate Nick - and that would have come in handy just before he killed her Hexenbiest.

(03-13-2016, 02:45 PM)Belle Wrote: [ -> ]All this back and forth is getting crazy, but if you step back there are only two possibilities:

1- Juliette knew Kenneth was going to kill Nick's mother
2- Juliette is a complete and total moron because only a complete and total moron would not have known what Kenneth was planning

So that's all there is.
Juliette is either a monster devoid of feelings and morals or Juliette is an idiot who is too dumb to be trusted.

She's dumb or she's evil, there really is no other option unless you want to consider the idea that she's both dumb and evil.

Kenneth’s mind game working so easily on Juliette made me immediately think of how easy it was for Renard to influence/control Adalind. Adalind was so desperate to belong she allowed herself to be used by people like Renard and her mother. When Kenneth approached Juliette, she was in a similar situation - an outcast without a support group. Regardless of what he might expect in return, Kenneth was inviting Juliette into his inner circle.

(07-19-2016, 09:33 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I have a question. What was Kelly planning? In other words, in your opinion, what was going through her mind when she got the email?

I agree that because the actor couldn’t/wouldn’t return long enough to shoot a scene or two, G & K killed the character as quickly as possible and in a manner that would cause as much trauma to Nick as possible. But doing it the way they did, they completely took Kelly out of character. She was always presented as being totally aware and in control of her surroundings, she always had preplanned entrance and exit strategies. And G & K totally dismissed that established character trait. So it makes it difficult to speculate what Kelly was thinking or planning when she arrived in Portland. The show could have easily had Kelly call Nick when she arrived in Portland and something happen to make her believe he was fighting for his life/in immediate danger, which spurred her to throw caution to the wind and rush to Nick’s aid.

(07-19-2016, 09:33 AM)Hexenadler Wrote: [ -> ]There's another alternative: Juliette simply deluded herself into thinking Kenneth would just knock Kelly out cold, or something along those lines. Hexenbiests are supposed to be notorious liars, so it would only make sense for them to lie to themselves as well.

Another alternative is that Juliette had become completely ambivalent to life & death and the people around her. It’s not so much that she reasoned Kelly could die or could handle Kenneth & the Verrat, but rather, maybe she wasn’t compelled to consider it one way or the other.

Renardfan99 wrote

Quote:Juliette was getting revenge on Nick for helping a pregnant Adalind and nothing else, so she set up his mother to be slaughtered and needs to die!

Where do they state Juliette intended to hurt Kelly. If the explicitly show Juliette working to lure Kelly to the house. And they explicitly provide the reason as revenge. Why would they imply the points that would support the intent of murder. Just encase people might equate kidnapping with death. The show has a kidnapping without a death. On top of that they have the character state they did not know. That is a lot of clarification for the show to intend for the position Juliette plotted to kill Kelly.

(07-19-2016, 05:54 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]Renardfan99 wrote

Quote:Juliette was getting revenge on Nick for helping a pregnant Adalind and nothing else, so she set up his mother to be slaughtered and needs to die!

Where do they state Juliette intended to hurt Kelly. If the explicitly show Juliette working to lure Kelly to the house. And they explicitly provide the reason as revenge. Why would they imply the points that would support the intent of murder. Just encase people might equate kidnapping with death. The show has a kidnapping without a death. On top of that they have the character state they did not know. That is a lot of clarification for the show to intend for the position Juliette plotted to kill Kelly.

I totally agree with that, Juliette was angry at Nick and Adalind. So her revenged was mainly at Adalind for getting knocked up with Nicks child. I don't think Juliette intended for Kelly to be killed its just not her style no matter what she did like Kelly. Yes she was indirectly responsible for her death. I rewatched 4 seasons of the show and Juliette is a strong woman. Anger, jealously, all of that was part of decision to help that Kenneth (who got what he deserves) yes I said, his death was too easy.