(03-10-2017, 03:24 PM)Purity Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 03:13 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 03:05 PM)Purity Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 03:01 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 02:58 PM)Purity Wrote: [ -> ]Okey, want to get this straight....
NICK - No Happiness or not deserving to have a happy life.
OTHERS - Should have their happiness and live happily ever after.
Poor Nick, well that is your prerogative.
Since you're saying Nick deserves happiness.....who is responsible for rewarding him with happiness?
I could say this too...Who is responsible for rewarding Monroe and Co with happiness if you are saying they deserve happiness and not Nick?
I'm not. What I'm saying is that you are phrasing this incorrectly. The question should be: Are people *entitled* to happiness? The answer is no. People are not entitled to happiness.
Let me put it differently. If Nick wants to go beat someone to a pulp because that makes him happy, is he entitled to do that? Use the word deserve if you want. Can Nick go beat the crap out of someone because he deserves to be happy? No way.
I think you should rephrase correctly....
Your first paragraph is more focused on real life in general, since it is no one in particular but the word People.
Quote:I'm not. What I'm saying is that you are phrasing this incorrectly. The question should be: Are people *entitled* to happiness? The answer is no. People are not entitled to happiness.
Your second paragraph is focused on the show being it a fantasy to the super natural world.
Quote:Let me put it differently. If Nick wants to go beat someone to a pulp because that makes him happy, is he entitled to do that? Use the word deserve if you want. Can Nick go beat the crap out of someone because he deserves to be happy? No way.
The 2 paragraphes do not coincide. 1 super natural to a show, the other in general real life.
Though to avoid confusion...
Yes to the real world. People do and should deserve happiness.
Regarding the show Grimm, Why not? Nick should deserve happiness, he has longed for it and it is his choice to make and no ones.
Well, not to split hairs here, but you yourself were doing some combining of real and fantasy not so many posts ago.
However, in deference, I will stick to fantasy and repeat that the characters in Grimm are not entitled to happiness. Even in the show, happiness is not some magic bundle deposited on their doorstep when someone does something positive, like Monroe giving up humans for dinner. That does not immediately and irrevocably mean that Monroe deserves happiness.
(03-10-2017, 03:26 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 03:22 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ]I so don't agree. I have such negative connotations regarding the word "entitled" because I feel it elevates one person/group above another. If anyone is entitled to happiness then everyone is. There's no cherry picking but life doesn't work that way that's why the world is such a miserable place to live for most people you'd likely term as entitled to happiness.
So does the word, "deserve". Use it if it makes you happy.
Yes, I said everyone deserves to be happy and I qualify that by saying as long as whatever they do to make themselves happy is not at the cost of someone else, like committing a crime or doing something hurtful towards another person.
(03-10-2017, 03:26 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 02:00 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]How about for not being an upstanding person who should have helped others? How about being a better man and not incriminating his friends in his intrigues?
But his crimes extend well beyond the circle of the scoobies. So my question is once he gets done apologizing to his friends, who does he apologize to for those other crimes?
Why would a person like that deserve happiness. His happiness should be in the fact that after all he's done, he's really lucky to be alive.
Sigh...I love JellyFish logic. She is like, so awesome. Irukandji, you are correct in your assessment.
I'm going to do something I never really ever do, izzy, and that's insert an emoji here
Thanks for the kind words.
(03-10-2017, 03:32 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 03:26 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 03:22 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ]I so don't agree. I have such negative connotations regarding the word "entitled" because I feel it elevates one person/group above another. If anyone is entitled to happiness then everyone is. There's no cherry picking but life doesn't work that way that's why the world is such a miserable place to live for most people you'd likely term as entitled to happiness.
So does the word, "deserve". Use it if it makes you happy.
Yes, I said everyone deserves to be happy and I qualify that by saying as long as whatever they do to make themselves happy is not at the cost of someone else, like committing a crime or doing something hurtful towards another person.
And it has finally come.....you're setting restrictions on another's happiness.
(03-10-2017, 03:31 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Well, not to split hairs here, but you yourself were doing some combining of real and fantasy not so many posts ago.
However, in deference, I will stick to fantasy and repeat that the characters in Grimm are not entitled to happiness. Even in the show, happiness is not some magic bundle deposited on their doorstep when someone does something positive, like Monroe giving up humans for dinner. That does not immediately and irrevocably mean that Monroe deserves happiness.
I do not think I ever combined real to fantasy. My debate was on Nick being the fantasy.
As i said it is your prerogative. I say they all deserve to be happy or entitled to be happy. It was not Nick's, Monroe's and Co's lives that spun/spin the super natural world around them, but the Super natural world that spun/spin thier lives around and continues to do so.
It is not thier doing, so yes they are entitled or deserve to find little or more happiness within this super natural world they live in that makes them comfortable.
(03-10-2017, 03:33 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 03:26 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 02:00 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]How about for not being an upstanding person who should have helped others? How about being a better man and not incriminating his friends in his intrigues?
But his crimes extend well beyond the circle of the scoobies. So my question is once he gets done apologizing to his friends, who does he apologize to for those other crimes?
Why would a person like that deserve happiness. His happiness should be in the fact that after all he's done, he's really lucky to be alive.
Sigh...I love JellyFish logic. She is like, so awesome. Irukandji, you are correct in your assessment.
I'm going to do something I never really ever do, izzy, and that's insert an emoji here Thanks for the kind words.
(03-10-2017, 03:32 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 03:26 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 03:22 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ]I so don't agree. I have such negative connotations regarding the word "entitled" because I feel it elevates one person/group above another. If anyone is entitled to happiness then everyone is. There's no cherry picking but life doesn't work that way that's why the world is such a miserable place to live for most people you'd likely term as entitled to happiness.
So does the word, "deserve". Use it if it makes you happy.
Yes, I said everyone deserves to be happy and I qualify that by saying as long as whatever they do to make themselves happy is not at the cost of someone else, like committing a crime or doing something hurtful towards another person.
And it has finally come.....you're setting restrictions on another's happiness.
True happiness, as I understand this question to be about is about finding joy, contentment and all the wonderful feelings associated with it in one's life. On the surface that seems harmless enough but reality doesn't work like that with some people because often to achieve their "happiness" as they have determined, it may involve purposefully and callously stepping over other people to get it and that, to me isn't happiness, it's selfishness.
Do I think these characters deserve happiness? Absolutely, we all do but it should not be at the expense of another person, real life or fiction. There's nothing wrong with Nick being happy with his life with Adalind and Kelly, as I said he's found a measure of joy in his current situation, just as his friends have with their lives. Eve (as I believe this is really about her) must do the same for herself and live her life and try and find her own joy in living it. Her happiness won't be guaranteed by Nick being miserable.
(03-10-2017, 01:28 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 01:18 PM)Purity Wrote: [ -> ]We only see one opinion of Nick's Aunt, but there are many more Grimms around who will beg to differ.
Where are they?
Mama Kelly was married. She told Nick she was wrong to have left him and not to make the same mistake as her.
Trubel is working with other Grimms as well so who knows what their private lives are like.
(03-10-2017, 03:41 PM)Purity Wrote: [ -> ]I say they all deserve to be happy or entitled to be happy. It was not Nick's, Monroe's and Co's lives that spun/spin the super natural world around them, but the Super natural world that spun/spin thier lives around and continues to do so.
It is not thier doing, so yes they are entitled or deserve to find little or more happiness within this super natural world they live in that makes them comfortable.
Well let's go back to Nick. What exactly has he done to earn happiness?
(03-10-2017, 03:50 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 01:28 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 01:18 PM)Purity Wrote: [ -> ]We only see one opinion of Nick's Aunt, but there are many more Grimms around who will beg to differ.
Where are they?
Mama Kelly was married. She told Nick she was wrong to have left him and not to make the same mistake as her.
Yes, but it appears she wasn't happily married or she wouldn't have enemies who mistakenly killed her husband and his friend.
(03-10-2017, 04:16 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 03:41 PM)Purity Wrote: [ -> ]I say they all deserve to be happy or entitled to be happy. It was not Nick's, Monroe's and Co's lives that spun/spin the super natural world around them, but the Super natural world that spun/spin thier lives around and continues to do so.
It is not thier doing, so yes they are entitled or deserve to find little or more happiness within this super natural world they live in that makes them comfortable.
Well let's go back to Nick. What exactly has he done to earn happiness?
I will continue this later, It is my shift today at work in the pilot's cabin, will have to fly passengers in 4 hours.
But I will just add this. He has done alot, as a cop, a Grimm and his friends are happy to be his friend. Sure he has made mistakes, but doesn't everyone. You just have to learn from it and make the best out of it. It is is choice to be happy and deserve to be. Since he has found his hapiness, he should follow it. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Cheers.
(03-10-2017, 04:16 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 03:41 PM)Purity Wrote: [ -> ]I say they all deserve to be happy or entitled to be happy. It was not Nick's, Monroe's and Co's lives that spun/spin the super natural world around them, but the Super natural world that spun/spin thier lives around and continues to do so.
It is not thier doing, so yes they are entitled or deserve to find little or more happiness within this super natural world they live in that makes them comfortable.
Well let's go back to Nick. What exactly has he done to earn happiness?
(03-10-2017, 03:50 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 01:28 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2017, 01:18 PM)Purity Wrote: [ -> ]We only see one opinion of Nick's Aunt, but there are many more Grimms around who will beg to differ.
Where are they?
Mama Kelly was married. She told Nick she was wrong to have left him and not to make the same mistake as her.
Yes, but it appears she wasn't happily married or she wouldn't have enemies who mistakenly killed her husband and his friend.
Where did you get that she wasn't happily married? She was supposed to meet with Nick's father after dropping off the friend at an airport if I remember correctly. They never made it because they were killed mistakenly because it wasn't Kelly in the car.