Adalind knew nothing except that Kelly had Diania in a car rented under Juliette's name she didn't know exactly what Kenneth was up to. It was Juliette who manipulated Kelly into walking into her own murder, stop making excuses just because you happen to like Juliette the character. In a criminal court she would be charged with planning Kelly's Murder. The bottom line is if Juliette hadn't of sent an email to Kelly she would be still alive, so really stop with your baseless accusations against Adalind. Plus she didn't think he would be able to turn Juliette as she stated to Kenneth in 4x19 that Juliette would never betray Nick.
Adalinds the one who told Nick what hotel Kenneth was staying in, it was Adalind who helped set Kenneth up for his death while Juliette set Kelly up for hers. Adalind is the one that actually comforted Nick after Kelly's death in the season 4 finale while Juliette tried to kill him in the finale.
Syscrash, you seem willing to blame anyone but Juliette for her actions.
I chose long ago to accept G & K’s explanation that Nick being a detective was not part of their original vision, but a change requested by the Network. G & K wrote that Nick was a detective in a PPD precinct, but wrote him as a Grimm in the pilot episode. Nick, the Grimm was their central character/hero. Nick, the detective was hardly more than his cover and assess to police technology and files.
And while I agree that Nick wasn’t a good cop as we might rate one, G & K didn’t focus on Nick playing a traditional cop role or even maintaining a traditional precinct environment and chain of command. Renard protected Nick in his Grimm activities as long as it benefited him to do so. Hank and Wu were on board with Nick’s shenanigans long before they learned of Grimm and Wesen.
So to me, Hank and Wu removing their badges during S4 didn’t provide a new element to the characters. They had chosen to place Grimm law, well, actually Nick and his personal woes, above human law long before that.
Quote:Adalind knew nothing expect that Kelly had Diania in a car rented to Juliette's name she didn't know exactly what Kenneth was up to. It was Juliette who manipulated Kelly into walking into her own murder, stop making excuses just because you happen to like Juliette the character. In a criminal court she would be charged with planning Kelly's Murder. The bottom line is if Juliette hadn't of sent an email to Kelly she would be still alive, so really stop with your baseless accusations against Adalind.
Adalinds the one who told Nick what hotel Kenneth was staying in, it was Adalind who helped set Kenneth up for his death while Juliette set Kelly up for hers. Adalind is the one that actually comforted Nick after Kelly's death in the season 4 finale while Juliette tried to kill him in the finale.
Everything you said is technically correct, but I think it’s important that we also consider the motivation behind a character’s actions. Yes, Adalind was actively working with Nick against the Royals, and Juliette. But at that moment, aligning with Nick benefited her goal to protect her unborn child and get Diana back. Had staying with Kenneth and aiding in his plot remained a viable option, Adalind would have just as easily worked against Nick, and probably even worked with Juliette as long as she believed working with Juliette might result in her ultimately getting one child back while keeping the other safe.
I didn’t see any indication that Adalind felt any loyalty to Nick, other than at that moment, they were both trying to stop Juliette’s rampage. It was later that Adalind had reason to believe Nick would make a concerted effort to take Diana from the Royals.
So while technically one was working with and the other against Nick, both were motivated by their personal goals that happened to be connected to Nick.
(11-15-2017, 05:53 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]The topic is not is Juliette an accomplice. It is what did she know. As for responsibility. If this was real. Adalind would also be a Co defendant. As for who knew what. From the characters point of view. Adalind knew more about what Kenneth was most likely to do. She watched Kenneth brutalized Sean spy. With this knowledge she said nothing to Nick warning him what Kenneth was up to. Adalind knew Kenneth was going to try and turn Juliette.
Hold on there. Are you trying to imply that Adalind suspicions of what Kenneth plans to turn Juliette to his side, which is the only knowledge she had, made her just as guilty as Juliette? The same Juliette that was there, in the hotel room with Kenneth, Verat and a laptop with blueprints of the houses, planning the attack on her neighbors, the layout of the house she lived in and the sending of the email to sucker in Kelly to her death and loosing her head as being equivalent in guilt. Are you out of your mind? Is this your real opinion?
Well if that’s the case, then I take back on my labeling one specific contributor to making outlandish claims and arguments, to two of the same. If you can, somehow, consider these two women as being on the same guilty plane, I give up. Since, Adalind has nothing to be guilty about, the murders of Nicks mother and neighbors. If that is what you believe, I detract my argument from this silly discussion.
(11-15-2017, 05:58 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]Adalind knew nothing except that Kelly had Diania in a car rented under Juliette's name she didn't know exactly what Kenneth was up to. It was Juliette who manipulated Kelly into walking into her own murder, stop making excuses just because you happen to like Juliette the character. In a criminal court she would be charged with planning Kelly's Murder. The bottom line is if Juliette hadn't of sent an email to Kelly she would be still alive, so really stop with your baseless accusations against Adalind. Plus she didn't think he would be able to turn Juliette as she stated to Kenneth in 4x19 that Juliette would never betray Nick.
Adalinds the one who told Nick what hotel Kenneth was staying in, it was Adalind who helped set Kenneth up for his death while Juliette set Kelly up for hers. Adalind is the one that actually comforted Nick after Kelly's death in the season 4 finale while Juliette tried to kill him in the finale.
Syscrash, you seem willing to blame anyone but Juliette for her actions.
As usual Henry, another nail hit on the head. If Adalind was guilty for Aiding and Abetting in a murder, it was for Kenneth’s murder. Yes, I said it, Kenneth was murdered by Nick. Hank and Wu and Adalind were accomplices including that other sergeant. None of them were in the wrong. Yes, it was unlawful for what they did in the legal sense but it was JUSTICE carried out in the world of Wesen by a Grimm, which is morally correct, given the baseline of this show.
(11-15-2017, 06:00 AM)Robyn Wrote: [ -> ]Everything you said is technically correct, but I think it’s important that we also consider the motivation behind a character’s actions. Yes, Adalind was actively working with Nick against the Royals, and Juliette. But at that moment, aligning with Nick benefited her goal to protect her unborn child and get Diana back. Had staying with Kenneth and aiding in his plot remained a viable option, Adalind would have just as easily worked against Nick, and probably even worked with Juliette as long as she believed working with Juliette might result in her ultimately getting one child back while keeping the other safe.
I didn’t see any indication that Adalind felt any loyalty to Nick, other than at that moment, they were both trying to stop Juliette’s rampage. It was later that Adalind had reason to believe Nick would make a concerted effort to take Diana from the Royals.
So while technically one was working with and the other against Nick, both were motivated by their personal goals that happened to be connected to Nick.
But technically, at the end of the day what is important and what defines us/them is what were the decisions they made, not what if’s and’s or but’s. What is important is what were the consequences of those decisions they made. Does it matter if Adalind was on the same path as Juliette was, until Kenneth forced her to follow a different path? Juliette had free will to do the same. She chose not to. The end result is what happened, not ‘What could have happened”!
(11-15-2017, 07:18 AM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]But technically, at the end of the day what is important and what defines us/them is what were the decisions they made, not what if’s and’s or but’s. What is important is what were the consequences of those decisions they made. Does it matter if Adalind was on the same path as Juliette was, until Kenneth forced her to follow a different path? Juliette had free will to do the same. She chose not to. The end result is what happened, not ‘What could have happened”!
But you're not comparing apples to apples, more like comparing apples that turn into a different fruit. Motivation is an important component driving a character's action. Adalind didn't have any compulsion to keep Nick safe other than she needed him alive and prepared to keep her safe.
I don't see why it matters that Adalind's choices happen to not compromise Nick if she didn't care that they did as long as she and the children remained safe. Had Kelly happen to survive and escape with Diana, it doesn't change the fact that Juliette intended to trap her and hand over Diana to the King.
Regardless of the outcome, each woman's motivation remained self serving.
What Adalind and Nick were short fights, their paths crossed because of Sean.
Juliette' s -"Hexenbiest"- actions were motivated by the hate.
(11-15-2017, 07:15 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with most of you post Robyn, I was just responding to syscrash ,who was trying to accuse Adalind of nearly being as responsible for Kelly's death as Juliette which in my opinion is ridiculous. I think the problem with the whole Juliette situation is some posters are too harsh on her and others like syscrash,are far to soft on her.
Adalind knew that Kenneth planned on capturing Kelly. She did nothing until well after Kelly was killed. Does that make her guilty of murder? No more than it makes Juliette guilty of murder.
(11-15-2017, 11:58 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]No problem I misunderstood sorry.
I don't think Juliette is guilty of murder ethier just helping set up the murder.
She set up Kelly's betrayal, there's no doubt there, but I don't think she helped set up any murder. If she had, Kenneth would have been completely prepared to murder Kelly and would have simply done so. From my perspective, Kenneth was not prepared to murder Kelly; otherwise, he wouldn't have had to "take it outside".