Grimm Forum

A senior Black Claw operative would know what Nick looks like and would have ensured his bodyguards did too. Juliette was already out of the building before the two bodyguards reacted. There was no covering involved.

No, she was behind the guy whose head she blew out. The bodyguards turned, woged and drew their guns on her, and she sidestepped as Nick charged them.

(04-24-2016, 07:50 AM)Robyn Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2016, 04:03 AM)New Guy Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Forum,
IMO, FrankeEve still want's Nick . . . DEAD. Hexenette was attempting to kill Nick when Trubel shot her. The first time Nick spoke with FrankenEve was in the restaurant where she set him up to see if the two body guards could kill him. She is an emotionless killing machine and remembers how much she wanted to kill Nick.
If Nick wants to protect Adalind and Kelly he needs to Grimm up and avenge his Mother's death. Off with her head!
New Guy

I don't think Eve was testing if the body guards could kill Nick. Both Eve & Meisner have discussed how important Nick is to HW. Eve and Meisner were testing Nick's emotional stability when working with, being around Eve/Juliette. If he can't handle it, he'd be a liability, not an asset.

Hi Robyn,
The restaurant meeting was a set up. FrankenEve murdered Rankin, a high ranking BC leader. Why didn't she capture Rankin and kill the two body guards? Why didn't she kill all three of them? She murdered 19 BC members at the factory massacre so three should be easy. She walked out leaving Nick to deal with two body guards that just witnessed their boss murdered.
IMO, Nick knew he was in mortal danger and reacted by killing the two body guards.
Here is the Grimm Wiki transcript from 5.08 A Reptile Dysfunction (Bold added):

Quote:Scene: Nick, Hank, and Wu talk with Renard in his office, and Nick tells them about what happened at the restaurant.

Nick: I was only in the restaurant for about five minutes.
Renard: Juliette did this?
Nick: No. Eve.
Renard: Who the hell is Eve?
Nick: She used to be Juliette.
Hank: Used to be?
Nick: She's definitely not the woman I knew.
Wu: This was a planned hit.
Nick: Turns out, I was her backup.
Renard: And you didn't know this?
Nick: No. It was a test. I found that out later.
Wu: A test of what?
Nick: To see if I could survive. Or if I'd protect her.
Hank: You survived and she's alive, so I guess you passed.
Wu: I hope she thanked you.
Nick: She didn't stick around. When I got out, she was gone.
Renard: We know who her target was?
Nick: The guy in the suit. Haven't been able to ID him yet or his bodyguards-they weren't carrying identification. All I know is his name was Samuel Rankin. He was an organizer for Black Claw.
Renard: If he didn't have ID, how do you know all this?

I agree with Nick, Hank and Wu. FrankenEve's "test" was pass/fail simple enough even a robot can understand, survive = pass, die = fail.
Later in the episode at the HW compound Meisner mentions the "test"

Quote:Nick: [Looking around] Obviously, we're not alone.
Meisner: No. You're not. There was no other way. But you proved yourself.
Nick: To who?
Meisner: Eve.

There is no mention of "emotions." Then Nick meets with FrankenEve:

Quote:Meisner: I don't know. But as you can tell, we're not without funding. And don't ask me where that comes from either. 'Cause I don't know. [He and Nick stop outside a door] She's inside. I'll give you a few minutes. [He knocks]
Eve: Enter.
[Meisner walks away]
Nick: [He opens the door and goes inside] You wanted me to prove myself?
Eve: You did.
Nick: You should've told me.
Eve: We had to know how you would react. If you let your emotions get in the way, you'd be no good to us.
Nick: You really believe in all of this.
Eve: Not at first. I didn't believe in anything.
Nick: What about now?
Eve: I found a reason to live.
Nick: Do you feel remorse for anything you've done?
Eve: You mean what she did.
Nick: What you did.
. . . .
Eve: You're here for a reason. My only regret is that you didn't have a chance to bury Juliette.

She is making it clear to Nick that she has no remorse. FrankenEve wants Nick to believe Juliette is dead. She "regrets" he didn't have a chance to bury her. She talks about Nick's emotions getting in the way.
IMO she is referring to the confrontation at the end of 4.22 Cry Havoc where Nick is strangling her and she taunts him to "just do it." She is gambling that Nick's emotion (love) will prevent him from killing her. Nick failed that test when he released his hold. His penalty was death and if Trubel had not shot her, Nick would be dead.
Do you think FrankenEve "regrets" she is alive? I sure do.
New Guy

I think she's compartmentalized her guilt, regret and death wish into the Juliette part of her personality that she tells herself no longer exists. The Eve part sees herself as a weapon or warrior, doesn't especially want to die, but doesn't particularly care if she does as long as she goes out accomplishing a mission.

But what good would be accomplished if Eve had remorse? What's going to change?

"To see if I could survive. Or if I'd protect her." was Nick's take on why they did it, but I think this exchange from a bit later is more revealing of what they wanted to find out:

Eve: I don't think he's ready.
Meisner: Burkhardt?
Eve: He's still too emotional.
Meisner: He doesn't understand how important you are to us, the way you are now.
Eve: Maybe we should've changed my face. Or do to him what you did to me.

(04-24-2016, 03:58 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]But what good would be accomplished if Eve had remorse? What's going to change?

Hi Iruk,
Good questions. I just realized my answer to "Do you think FrankenEve "regrets" she is alive?" Was not clear. One could read "I sure do" to mean I believe she has such regrets. FrankenEve has no regrets, emotions, feelings or morals. Life has no value to her. What I meant was I regret FrankenEve is alive. I regret Nick didn't bury her.

Quote:what good would be accomplished if Eve had remorse?

Her "regret" could cause her such guilt to ingest an entire jar of Siegbarste Gift, shattering all her bones internally. That would be one good thing she could do as her last hexenbiest act.

Quote: What's going to change?

If her remorse was so great that she could not go on and committed suicide then Juliette/Hexenette/FrankenEve would be dead. Then her only regret could be rectified and Nick could finally bury her.
New Guy

Quote: I cannot justify Nick working along side Eve/Juliette after all that she did, I mean burn down your trailer, stand by and listen while your mom is murdered. Come on give me a break. Nick is no way innocent by a far means but enough is enough.

But you say nothing about Hank helping Adalind who left him for dead.

Quote:Rosalee and Monroe was too quick to tell Nick that Adalind is a Hexen again. But not that Eve/Julitte threatened Adalind.

When would Rosalee be able to tell Nick Eve came by. You fault them for saying nothing. Adalind did not say anything either, she just asked to sleep with him. Of course Adalind telling Nick about Eve would mean telling him about her powers.

Just how would that conversation go. Adalind would tell Nick, Eve threatened me if I hurt you. What would Nick say. How dare her for wanting you to not hurt me. We way the difference, Adalind actually by her own hand physical did something to Nick. Deceived him and took his powers. The only thing that Juliette physically did to Nick was the fight. Would she have killed him. Seeing how easy Eve kills, why would she take the most difficult method with Nick. If killing him was her real intent.

It is interesting Nick finds out Adalind has her powers. Now she wants to have sex. Considering every time Adalind has had sex something has happened. Shouldn't Nick have been concerned.

Since they didn't show us how Nick responded to Monroe's help message or how he got Monroe and Rosalee out of the tunnel - wouldn't have been that hard, all he had to do was come home and take his family out for dinner - we don't know that they didn't tell him about Eve's visit. Nothing that happened in the next episode tells us one way or the other.

(04-24-2016, 03:15 PM)Dian Mclean Wrote: [ -> ]I totally agree with you. Some one needs to tell Nick that Eve went uninvited into his home threatened his sons's mother. I mean how dear she after all the damages she did to him. Rosalee and Monroe was too quick to tell Nick that Adalind is a Hexen again. But not that Eve/Julitte threatened Adalind.

I'm seeing this from a different angle. Adalind used deadly force against Juliette with no warning on one occasion and threatened Juliette with deadly force when she tried to kidnap Juliette.
She's broken in to Nick and Juliette's house, also uninvited, when it suited her. Juliette never told Nick about the time Adalind broke in and threatened to kidnap her

Eve has Juliette's memories and knows what Adalind (as a hexenbiest) is capable of. All she's doing to telling Adalind that she isn't safe anywhere if she hurts Nick.

(04-24-2016, 03:15 PM)Dian Mclean Wrote: [ -> ]This is what I cannot understand no matter what the reasons are I cannot justify Nick working along side Eve/Juliette after all that she did, I mean burn down your trailer, stand by and listen while your mom is murdered. Come on give me a break. Nick is no way innocent by a far means but enough is enough.

There comes a time for vengeance and Nick's time has passed. For him to go Rambo 12 months later over Kelly's death make no sense. There's no basis for it now.

As for the trailer, my opinion is that no vengeance is justified. It is, after all, a thing. Juliette didn't burn it down with anyone inside it. Nick has managed, actually quite well, to get along without it and in fact, has never mentioned being inconvenienced because it's no longer around.

New Guy, you talked about Eve having remorse and if she did, she should then commit suicide and do herself a favor. She doesn't have remorse. On the flip side of the coin, she no longer has jealousy, heartache, anger, or something that all of scoobies would be fearful of, revenge. I like that she's all right with Nick and Adalind being together. She must see that it's somehow good for him. However, Grimm being Grimm, that isn't going to last for long, I bet.