Grimm Forum

(05-22-2014, 06:50 PM)Berkilak de Hautdesert Wrote: [ -> ]As far as Juliette forgiving Nick, what if there were no Wesen involved, Nick just got really drunk, and the next morning finds himself in bed with one of Juliette's girlfriends? I can't see Juliette forgiving that. So I'm wondering can she make her mind wrap around the whole Adalind doppleganger thing, or will her mind subconsciously revert to the waking up hungover with my best friend scenario?

Two entirely different scenarios, imo. In this case, Nick would have been responsible for letting himself get so drunk he made a bad decision; in the case of Adalind's magic, he is the innocent victim.

(05-22-2014, 06:50 PM)Berkilak de Hautdesert Wrote: [ -> ]Now, let's assume Juliette and Nick have their second separation, and Nick and Trubel end up sharing quarters. Heck, they may even end up staying in Aunt Marie's newly relocated trailer! Anyway, they end up battling a legion of Verrat or something equally rough, have a few drinks, and with the combination of alcohol, adrenaline, Trubel never having had a real friend before, and Nick's better judgment being greatly diminished by alcohol....

Well, it's a TV show and stranger things have happened in Portland, so that possibility is just as viable as any.

Thanks for posting the web series samples; that one with J and R was really cute. The other two were great also; forgot about old Franco, like to see more of him.

(05-22-2014, 08:11 PM)speakeasy Wrote: [ -> ]Two entirely different scenarios, imo. In this case, Nick would have been responsible for letting himself get so drunk he made a bad decision; in the case of Adalind's magic, he is the innocent victim.

I agree with you that, if you looked at it from a logical perspective, they are two different scenarios. But the point I was making is that consciously, Juliette might differentiate between the two, but subconsciously, she may be treating them one and the same. We're not talking a logical reaction, after all, but an emotional reaction.

Glad you enjoyed the web shorts. I just enjoy seeing more of Bud!

(05-26-2014, 05:26 PM)Berkilak de Hautdesert Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with you that, if you looked at it from a logical perspective, they are two different scenarios. But the point I was making is that consciously, Juliette might differentiate between the two, but subconsciously, she may be treating them one and the same. We're not talking a logical reaction, after all, but an emotional reaction.

Glad you enjoyed the web shorts. I just enjoy seeing more of Bud!

Adalind deliberately works chaos into people's lives. She perpetrates upheaval. And she has wrought this misery not just once, but twice on Juliette. In a perfect world Juliette would turn her into a stinkbug with one of her own potions.

But it's said the best revenge is to live a happy life; I'm hoping Juliette will have the smarts to not let this manipulator destroy her relationship with Nick. (But if not, life goes on and so will Grimm. )

Bud's great, he's so hapless, he's cool! Thanks again, Green Knight.

I see Nick and Trubel's relationship being that of a mentor/mentee (although I think it would be great if the writers could come up with a plausible explanation for their being siblings), and as such, the thought of their getting physical grosses me out - especially if it's because Nick was drunk. That's like taking advantage - Trubel's a baby Grimm and is obviously a little behind in grown human interactions. She's nowhere near ready for the kind of adult relationship that Nick's used to with Juliette.

Nick and Juliette seem like that couple who've been together for so long that their attachment doesn't demand that they do all those things newly romantic people do. They're comfortable with each other, but not so comfortable that they have nothing to talk about anymore. So while I don't see sparks, I see a comfort level that comes with familiarity.

(05-22-2014, 06:50 PM)Berkilak de Hautdesert Wrote: [ -> ]As far as Juliette forgiving Nick, what if there were no Wesen involved, Nick just got really drunk, and the next morning finds himself in bed with one of Juliette's girlfriends? I can't see Juliette forgiving that. So I'm wondering can she make her mind wrap around the whole Adalind doppleganger thing, or will her mind subconsciously revert to the waking up hungover with my best friend scenario?

You are in entirely different territory here. Don't forget Nick was a victim of trickery in this incident. He believed he was sleeping with the woman he's committed to. Granted I have my issues with this but I'll get to that later.
What you are suggesting is a complete 180; a situation that in contrast would be under Nick's control, in which he'd know the other woman is NOT Juliette even piss ass drunk and yet on some level still chose to be with her.
The two scenarios are in no way related.

Honestly I felt Juliette's initial anger over the incident was uncalled for considering the circumstances, not to mention her own victimizing by Adalind. When she was put in a coma and woke with no memory of Nick and the hots for Renard.
Nick had never for a second held any of that against her and had given her his full support with no expectation of getting her back let alone without ever pushing her to remember him.
She owed him for that, she should have remembered what it's like to be tricked into having feelings for or being with a partner other than your own and been more fair.

(05-27-2014, 07:40 PM)BymagaJones Wrote: [ -> ]Nick and Juliette seem like that couple who've been together for so long that their attachment doesn't demand that they do all those things newly romantic people do. They're comfortable with each other, but not so comfortable that they have nothing to talk about anymore. So while I don't see sparks, I see a comfort level that comes with familiarity.

This is exactly why I somewhat feel like Nick should have felt something different about "Juliette's" touch, her kiss. Though I myself have never had a boyfriend, I would think that someone's touch would be unique to them like their fingerprints.
For example perhaps one person's handshake is a little more firm than another person's. Thus if the person with the firm handshake tried to impersonate the person with the looser handshake the way Adalind disguised as Juliette and still delivered the firm handshake that should be a giveaway to anyone who knows the loose handshake person. That's something a visible disguise couldn't hide. Adalind would still kiss and touch Nick like herself, she wouldn't know how to impersonate Juliette's intimacy. So I can see how Juliette could be hurt if that was what was on her mind.

It seemed messed up to me that all it took for Trubel who barely knows Juliette to smell a rat was a simple comment "I hate Bacon". Though that was an awesome spot on her part.

(05-22-2014, 06:50 PM)Berkilak de Hautdesert Wrote: [ -> ]Now, let's assume Juliette and Nick have their second separation, and Nick and Trubel end up sharing quarters. Heck, they may even end up staying in Aunt Marie's newly relocated trailer! Anyway, they end up battling a legion of Verrat or something equally rough, have a few drinks, and with the combination of alcohol, adrenaline, Trubel never having had a real friend before, and Nick's better judgment being greatly diminished by alcohol....

Whoa. My apologies but this sounds to me like a bad fanficton.
This is the second time you've suggested a scenario in which Nick gets drunk but you're in assumption/speculation territory here because there is no evidence to suggest that Nick is the type to get drunk, true, nor to the contrary but nonetheless you are still speculating here.

Drunkenness aside, the idea that Nick and Trubel could ever sleep together whether under the influence of alcohol or not is just ridiculous. Granted they haven't had enough screen time together to judge their chemistry accurately, in fact I sense none at all, but they most certainly do not have THAT kind of chemistry. He actually treats her like a daughter if anything judging by the episode in which she'd posed as a police ride along. Her street smarts led them to the wesen in question, she knew the entire time what she was doing and it was working but every time she tried to deliver completely valid information Nick wrote her off and tried to keep her on a short leash. When she'd taken it upon herself to go undercover he'd sat there anxiously wanting to reel her in the entire time. It reminded me of the film 'Cheaper by the Dozen 2' in which Steve Martin's 11 year old daughter went on her first date and he'd sat staring at the clock in complete panic mode. He'd gotten so impatient he'd ended up crashing the date. There were actually times when Nick wanted to crash Trubel's undercover operation and only didn't because Hank insisted he give the girl a chance.
So I find the notion of Trubel and Nick being romantic disgusting.

In fact how old is Trubel? I think she could actually barely be a fitting age to be Nick's daughter. He would have had to be an idiot and knock some chick up sometime in high school if he's in his early 30's as his appearance would suggest but the point is, it might work!

If not his daughter than she most certainly passes for his younger sister though I doubt they could make that plausible as an actuality given Nick's father was killed with no second kid present as shown in the flashback when he was left in Aunt Marie's care and Mother B ending up in a life on the run. So I personally hope they don't try.

Either way she is too young for him as a romantic partner.
If she's under 18 it could even be illegal depending on Oregon state laws and since he's a cop it could lose him his credibility and/or his job. Even if state laws don't call sex with a minor 'statutory rape' they'd probably still call it a misdemeanor which also doesn't look good for cop. That's like a squeamish paramedic, it just doesn't work. It's hypocritical.
This is irrelevant though as I am pretty sure she's 18 or 19. Isn't she?

So just no.

(05-27-2014, 11:43 PM)Badass Blutbad Wrote: [ -> ]Whoa. My apologies but this sounds to me like a bad fanficton.
This is the second time you've suggested a scenario in which Nick gets drunk but you're in assumption/speculation territory here because there is no evidence to suggest that Nick is the type to get drunk, true, nor to the contrary but nonetheless you are still speculating here.

There have been things happened last season I only would have thought possible in bad fanfiction, so ...
But you are right. Nick doesn't have to get drunk, he only needs time with Trubel. Someday bad things can happen when you are permanently sticking together 24/7 ...

Quote:Drunkenness aside, the idea that Nick and Trubel could ever sleep together whether under the influence of alcohol or not is just ridiculous. Granted they haven't had enough screen time together to judge their chemistry accurately, in fact I sense none at all, but they most certainly do not have THAT kind of chemistry. He actually treats her like a daughter if anything judging by the episode in which she'd posed as a police ride along. Her street smarts led them to the wesen in question, she knew the entire time what she was doing and it was working but every time she tried to deliver completely valid information Nick wrote her off and tried to keep her on a short leash. When she'd taken it upon herself to go undercover he'd sat there anxiously wanting to reel her in the entire time. It reminded me of the film 'Cheaper by the Dozen 2' in which Steve Martin's 11 year old daughter went on her first date and he'd sat staring at the clock in complete panic mode. He'd gotten so impatient he'd ended up crashing the date. There were actually times when Nick wanted to crash Trubel's undercover operation and only didn't because Hank insisted he give the girl a chance.
So I find the notion of Trubel and Nick being romantic disgusting.

Really? That was my first thought after I read the news: Oh look! Now they want to breed a special fullblooded Grimm!
To be true, I've seen that some times in my RL that old friends, I mean really old friends and buddies, friends since kindergarten or early schooldays, feeling more like brother and sister for each other, are suddenly falling FOR each other. So, with a chick that can relate to his Grimm-problems always around, she's not being ugly and having the right parts at the right places, permanently sticking together, long night (no alcohol) ... yes, it could happen. I hope it won't but it could. Could finally be a reason why the heck Trubel has to be a girl.

Quote:In fact how old is Trubel? I think she could actually barely be a fitting age to be Nick's daughter. He would have had to be an idiot and knock some chick up sometime in high school if he's in his early 30's as his appearance would suggest but the point is, it might work!

First I heard about the character-concept she was supposed to be 16, now they changed that to 21, which is Toboni's real age. Nick is a year younger than his actor, so he's still 32 but turning 33 in a few weeks. That would mean 11 or maybe 12 and that would mean pretty damn young for becoming a father. Depending it could be possible but I doubt that.

Quote:If not his daughter than she most certainly passes for his younger sister though I doubt they could make that plausible as an actuality given Nick's father was killed with no second kid present as shown in the flashback when he was left in Aunt Marie's care and Mother B ending up in a life on the run. So I personally hope they don't try.

Well, according to Kyle (McVey) Reed was a Kehrseite, not a Wesen or a Grimm. Nontheless Kyle is trying to make comic-canon show-canon which Kouf and Greenwalt had already separated last year (what doesn't mean Kyle couldn't try and being partly successful) we still don't know for the show. Comic-Canon Reed is human and as they writers aren't interested in his fate or history I doubt that Trubel is coming from his side.
Kelly as mother I don't think is possible. Trubel's birth was about the time when she started her second life in the shadows, the last thing she needed back then was a pregnancy or a baby - and she already had given her firstborn away. So, I don't think Nick and Trubel are related. Okay, Nick has some issues with his memories obviously but I doubt he wouldn't have noticed at all that his mother was pregnant when she gave him away. THAT would be more for a possible grudge then.

Quote:Either way she is too young for him as a romantic partner.

Is she? Strange things can happen ...

Quote:If she's under 18 it could even be illegal depending on Oregon state laws and since he's a cop it could lose him his credibility and/or his job. Even if state laws don't call sex with a minor 'statutory rape' they'd probably still call it a misdemeanor which also doesn't look good for cop. That's like a squeamish paramedic, it just doesn't work. It's hypocritical.
This is irrelevant though as I am pretty sure she's 18 or 19. Isn't she?

So just no.

As I've said, she's 21. Evidence is in 3.19 when Hank is looking at her file you can see for one moment her birthday and age (and her place of birth).
And with 21 she isn't too young to end up happily ever after with Nick - IF Nick will make it out of his Grimmlessness. Right now my bet is on: Trubel's Nick's replacement and they are going to let him kill off or disappear with the start of season 4.
Funny thing is: Everyone is fearing for Renard's fate as Sasha's contract isn't confirmed. Mr. G's contract isn't confirmed either for season 4, but Toboni's is

Applause to Hyndara, who presented a much better rebuttal that I could have. I would like to add one more point.

(05-27-2014, 11:43 PM)Badass Blutbad Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly I felt Juliette's initial anger over the incident was uncalled for considering the circumstances, not to mention her own victimizing by Adalind. When she was put in a coma and woke with no memory of Nick and the hots for Renard.
Nick had never for a second held any of that against her and had given her his full support with no expectation of getting her back let alone without ever pushing her to remember him.
She owed him for that, she should have remembered what it's like to be tricked into having feelings for or being with a partner other than your own and been more fair.

What I think you're failing to see here is that people don't react to events like this on a logical level, where they can see the facts. They react to things on an emotional level, where their reactions are based on a whole history of events they may not be aware of. You may think that that Juliette's reaction was uncalled for. In actuality, it was fairly restrained. When Juliette tells Nick that if they weren't going to a wedding she'd pull the car over right now, you could see that happening.

People don't act in a rational way to intense events. If you date someone who has been cheated on, they will invariably treat you with a degree of suspicion even when you give them no reason to. Statistically speaking, it is very likely for a couple to divorce if they lose a child to a fatal event, even if neither parent is to blame. People don't react to intense events logically, they react to them emotionally, and those emotional reactions do not have to take in the facts.

Now, you bring up the fact that Nick was very supportive of Juliette after the obsession between her and Sean, and this is true. And Juliette was very understanding with Nick when the Muse had him under her sway. But Nick had sex with Adalind. That takes it up to a whole new level. And no matter how she tries to think about it rationally, on an emotional level, she's going to feel betrayed, because Nick was engaged in an act of intimacy with someone else. As I showed above, in real life, it doesn't matter if your partner is not to blame, on a subconscious, emotional level, you're still going to blame them anyway. And the fact that this emotional trickery from the Wesen world keeps on happening again and again will compound this sense of betrayal. I think when Nick has the opportunity to regain his Grimm powers, Juliette is going to give him an ultimatum: the Wesen world or her. She's not going to let him have both.

Alright so my thoughts were flawed, my apologies.
Also thank you to Hyndara for confirming Trubel's age. My guesses were either 16 or 18 and since it seems I might not have made myself clear, the suggestion that her and Nick's ages fit as father/daughter or brother/sister was NOT a theory but a speculation and this doesn't change that fact that Nick has taken to treating her like a daughter.
If she's 21 then the age gap is not quite as unacceptable as I thought for them as romantic partners but they need to convince me that there is chemistry there before I support it(Thus I am not saying I don't or I that I do). Since she's new and thus barely been developed I'm remaining open minded to see what they do with her in the next season and if they use her upcoming screen time wisely.

(05-28-2014, 05:37 AM)Berkilak de Hautdesert Wrote: [ -> ]Applause to Hyndara, who presented a much better rebuttal that I could have. I would like to add one more point.

(05-27-2014, 11:43 PM)Badass Blutbad Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly I felt Juliette's initial anger over the incident was uncalled for considering the circumstances, not to mention her own victimizing by Adalind. When she was put in a coma and woke with no memory of Nick and the hots for Renard.
Nick had never for a second held any of that against her and had given her his full support with no expectation of getting her back let alone without ever pushing her to remember him.
She owed him for that, she should have remembered what it's like to be tricked into having feelings for or being with a partner other than your own and been more fair.

What I think you're failing to see here is that people don't react to events like this on a logical level, where they can see the facts. They react to things on an emotional level, where their reactions are based on a whole history of events they may not be aware of. You may think that that Juliette's reaction was uncalled for. In actuality, it was fairly restrained. When Juliette tells Nick that if they weren't going to a wedding she'd pull the car over right now, you could see that happening.

People don't act in a rational way to intense events. If you date someone who has been cheated on, they will invariably treat you with a degree of suspicion even when you give them no reason to. Statistically speaking, it is very likely for a couple to divorce if they lose a child to a fatal event, even if neither parent is to blame. People don't react to intense events logically, they react to them emotionally, and those emotional reactions do not have to take in the facts.

Now, you bring up the fact that Nick was very supportive of Juliette after the obsession between her and Sean, and this is true. And Juliette was very understanding with Nick when the Muse had him under her sway. But Nick had sex with Adalind. That takes it up to a whole new level. And no matter how she tries to think about it rationally, on an emotional level, she's going to feel betrayed, because Nick was engaged in an act of intimacy with someone else. As I showed above, in real life, it doesn't matter if your partner is not to blame, on a subconscious, emotional level, you're still going to blame them anyway. And the fact that this emotional trickery from the Wesen world keeps on happening again and again will compound this sense of betrayal. I think when Nick has the opportunity to regain his Grimm powers, Juliette is going to give him an ultimatum: the Wesen world or her. She's not going to let him have both.

You make a valid enough point. How having sex with someone whom he thought was Juliette doesn't seem like betrayal but at the same time the actuality for her perspective that it wasn't, alright I can see her point. It still wasn't his fault though and he was just as much a victim in this. She'd kind of treated it like he knew what he was doing. That's what I thought wasn't fair.
Unless as I suggested before she's angry at his not being able to feel a difference because the disguise should still be different to the touch. That makes sense as does her breaking point with the Wesen world always coming between them. I too would not be surprised to see her throw out an ultimatum.
Kind of a shame, at the beginning of the season she'd been a pretty badass Grimm sidekick hehe. I'm kind of missing that Juliette now. After all that time in season two when I got slightly annoyed waiting for Nick to tell her while she progressively put it together on her own as her memories returned, now it's all falling apart. That kinda sucks.

And as a sidenote I actually forgot about the muse, my initial thoughts might have been closer to yours had I remembered that this was not the first time Nick was seduced by the Wesen world.

Hello all. Hyndara, I know you have a real thing about the Truble character, but replacing Nick's character on the show? No way!

If Giuntoli decided to move on career wise, I could see them trying a spin-off with Toboni's character but not outright replacement in this show. That would never work. The writer's would have to redo the entire cast dynamic. What happens with Monroe and Hank? With Rosalee and Juliette? They'd pretty much have to start from scratch and rewrite the entire show from top to bottom.

(05-28-2014, 11:39 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: [ -> ]Hello all. Hyndara, I know you have a real thing about the Truble character, but replacing Nick's character on the show? No way!

If Giuntoli decided to move on career wise, I could see them trying a spin-off with Toboni's character but not outright replacement in this show. That would never work. The writer's would have to redo the entire cast dynamic. What happens with Monroe and Hank? With Rosalee and Juliette? They'd pretty much have to start from scratch and rewrite the entire show from top to bottom.

I agree. Such a move would be suicidal. Besides, Giuntoli is obviously having a good time as Nick--unless he has an offer for a HUGE movie part, I don't see him quitting.

That being said Trubel can't remain a permanent houseguest at Nick and Juliet's place. I'd earlier suggested that she move into the apartment over the spice shop--given that Rosalee will be living at Monroe's place--and work part-time in the shop in exchange. It was pointed out that having a Grimm behind the counter might scare off potential customers, so that part might not work.