(11-19-2018, 09:59 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]First off, I don't agree with the TVLINE assessment that Eve is showing signs of Juliette returning. I never got the impression that Juliette was returning. I did, however, get the impression that Eve was evolving.
Secondly, Eve has changed with regard to how she views herself. During that time when from that first time she met Nick in the restaurant, she told Nick, "they call me Eve". When she was on the other side with Nick, she told him there are things *she* can't forgive Juliette for. I am paraphrasing here, but my point is that she went from impersonal third party to acknowledging that she is Eve. She also acknowledges that she knows what she did is wrong and at the same time, tells us she knows what forgiveness is all about.
All of this was a result of the stick and her feelings coming back. Yes, Eve knew what Juliette did wrong and said she could never forgive her. I never denied that.
(11-20-2018, 05:03 AM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]N, remember that scene was the beginning of the "Z" guy starting the killing off of all the people close to Nick so he could coerce Nick to hand over the stick. As we see in the end, all his friends were never actually killed. They all met their demise in that alternate world. A world that was never established as an alternative reality, maybe just in Nick's mind or something else.
So, my question to you about the scene you posted here. Was it something Nick wanted to hear from her or was it what the "Z" guy wanted him to hear from her? IMO, those words were never Eve/Juliette's words but the words of either Nick or Z-man.
dicappatore, interesting question. I don’t think it was something Nick wanted to hear, but I'm more open to the idea it was something "Z" guy wanted him to hear. Let me explain my reasoning:
I think Nick's first thought when he was brought back the second time was just what you write - that it was something he had imagined. But then he saw the ring was gone from Adalind's finger and that the Staff had come through the mirror. And we must assume Z is dead. So, everything can’t just be in Nick's mind.
But is it possible that everyone in the “other place”, except Nick and Diana, was just illusions controlled by Z? Perhaps that's why only Nick and Diana could see Kelly and Aunt Marie when they showed up to stop Nick from handing over the stick? But why did Truble actively try to stop Nick? And what happened to the ring? And I assume if the purpose was to get Nick to give up the stick to get Juliette / Eve back, Z would have made her say something else than "no regrets"?
But none of this was explained, so your guess is as good as mine.
(11-20-2018, 10:19 AM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]All of this was a result of the stick and her feelings coming back. Yes, Eve knew what Juliette did wrong and said she could never forgive her. I never denied that.
But that wasn't my point. My point was that she made the conscious decision to remain Eve.
I think in the cat of Sch..
(11-20-2018, 10:43 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]But that wasn't my point. My point was that she made the conscious decision to remain Eve.
We agree that Eve evolved. You claim it was a conscious decision to remain Eve. I’ve already argued why I think that is wrong. Only parts of her came back. She was still Eve after stick healing, but with more of Juliette's personality. How could she go back to being Juliette when parts of her was still suppressed? And why would Eve tell Nick “I’m not Juliette anymore”? Why not say something like “I can’t be Juliette anymore?”.
I think it does not matter if Juliette was not there anymore, so that she could relive it?
Better if continue as Eve.
(11-20-2018, 01:53 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]We agree that Eve evolved. You claim it was a conscious decision to remain Eve. I’ve already argued why I think that is wrong. Only parts of her came back. She was still Eve after stick healing, but with more of Juliette's personality. How could she go back to being Juliette when parts of her was still suppressed? And why would Eve tell Nick “I’m not Juliette anymore”? Why not say something like “I can’t be Juliette anymore?”.
You can argue that it's wrong, but as of yet, I haven't read anything from you, other than a TVLINE statement that there were signs of Juliette returning. Eve herself never confirmed that pieces of Juliette were returning.
Just my opinion here, but I think that because Eve is getting a personality, it's immediately assumed that Juliette is returning.
(11-20-2018, 04:49 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (11-20-2018, 01:53 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]We agree that Eve evolved. You claim it was a conscious decision to remain Eve. I’ve already argued why I think that is wrong. Only parts of her came back. She was still Eve after stick healing, but with more of Juliette's personality. How could she go back to being Juliette when parts of her was still suppressed? And why would Eve tell Nick “I’m not Juliette anymore”? Why not say something like “I can’t be Juliette anymore?”.
You can argue that it's wrong, but as of yet, I haven't read anything from you, other than a TVLINE statement that there were signs of Juliette returning. Eve herself never confirmed that pieces of Juliette were returning.
Just my opinion here, but I think that because Eve is getting a personality, it's immediately assumed that Juliette is returning.
Ok, this is what I don’t understand: if it was a conscious decision to remain Eve, and at the same time, parts of Juliette were not returning after stick healing, what was the decision and its implications? The only thing I can think of is a decision to stay on the “good side”, but that is not a decision about being Eve, right?
Let me put it differently: if I woke up tomorrow and suddenly decided to stop writing mean comments to Irukandji on the Grimm forum, I could do that without changing username from N_grimm to A_grimm. Seriously, I just want you to explain what decision she made if parts of Juliette were not coming back.
Regarding TVLINE, the point I was highlighting was the comment from one of the creators saying, "The stick opened up part of her" (her=Juliette). And that it also me understanding of what was going on.
(11-20-2018, 06:04 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, this is what I don’t understand: if it was a conscious decision to remain Eve, and at the same time, parts of Juliette were not returning after stick healing, what was the decision and its implications? The only thing I can think of is a decision to stay on the “good side”, but that is not a decision about being Eve, right?
Let me put it differently: if I woke up tomorrow and suddenly decided to stop writing mean comments to Irukandji on the Grimm forum, I could do that without changing username from N_grimm to A_grimm. Seriously, I just want you to explain what decision she made if parts of Juliette were not coming back.
I'll respond to this with a statement Eve made to Nick:
Quote:I have a strength and a purpose that I never had before.
She didn't get that from Nick, the scoobies, or the stick. She got those qualities as the result of being Eve.
I can tell you right now that most of the current attendees on the forum would be inclined to state that she had no strength and no purpose as Juliette.
Would have some sense to Eve return to be juliette?
I do not think so.
(11-20-2018, 07:09 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I'll respond to this with a statement Eve made to Nick:
Quote:I have a strength and a purpose that I never had before.
She didn't get that from Nick, the scoobies, or the stick. She got those qualities as the result of being Eve.
I can tell you right now that most of the current attendees on the forum would be inclined to state that she had no strength and no purpose as Juliette.
If this contributor was paying attention to what was played out on the screen. The Eve quoted above was the Eve after she was exposed to the stick's healing and purification process she went through. She wasn't even at her full strength Hex until the very end when Diana told her, she was a Hexenbiest again.
To me, it was clearly shown, the stick healing and purification did what the potion they made way back in S4 and never got Juliette to drink it. The stick, not only suppressed her Hex but did even more.
HW was able to create the new Eve persona while suppressing the evil Juliette. What the stick did was not only heal her physically but heal her from whatever made her evil.
In the end, they might still call her Eve but that persona was not the Juliette we saw in S4, nor the Juliette in S1, S2 or S3 and for sure, she was not the robotic Eve we saw in S5. So, in the end, it is clearly shown, we ended up with a 4th persona called Eve or as some of us refer to as Evette.