(11-15-2018, 02:20 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2018, 01:53 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2018, 01:10 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2018, 11:34 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2018, 10:30 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]I think the context of the entire scene has to be considered. Juliette may have wanted to sleep with Kenneth but remember what Kenneth had just said prior to their tryst. He said that the bed is where Nick and Adalind made their baby. Juliette said yes it is and immediately responded by sleeping with Kenneth in that same bed. It can be argued that she did it most likely to get Nick's attention and just as likely it was an attempt to hurt him. Nick hadn"t yet wrote her off.
Then you'd need to go back to the incident itself, and I will pose this question.
Do you believe Nick knew he was sleeping with Adalind?
Not at all. Nick thought it was Juliette and never once) doubted it until the ride to the wedding. He didn't even believe Juliette when she said it wasn't her the first time she said it. He genuinely thought she was joking. He had no idea why she was so angry.
I know there have been conversations about Nick and how could he not know it wasn't Juliette due to routine, smell, touch, or whatever it may be but Nick never gave me any reason to doubt his belief that it was Juliette the entire time. He certainly didn't believe it was Adalind since she hadn't yet shown any ability to shapeshift and they didn't consider her a threat at the time..
Juliette questioned Nick a couple of times about whether he knew if he was with Adalind or not. He denied it each and every time. Juliette not only quit questioning him, she went on to become the final ingredient in the spell to give Nick his grimm back.
So........for Juliette to sleep with Kenneth to get even with Nick for a pregnancy he was deceived into participating in makes no sense. Juliette believed Nick. She went to bed with Kenneth because she wanted to.
That was a response to Juliette thinking Nick chose Adalind over her.
If the show wanted us to think she simply wanted to sleep with Kenneth as you claim, they would have shown us that but they didn’t on the actual show, Juliette didn’t seem remotely interested in jumping into bed with Kenneth until he brought up the point Nick and Adalind made there baby in that bed. Why did they show even have Kenneth say that statment in the first place if it didn’t have anything to do with Juliette jumping his bones the second he finished talking about Nick and Adalinds roll in the hay.
(11-15-2018, 01:53 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Juliette questioned Nick a couple of times about whether he knew if he was with Adalind or not. He denied it each and every time. Juliette not only quit questioning him, she went on to become the final ingredient in the spell to give Nick his grimm back.
So........for Juliette to sleep with Kenneth to get even with Nick for a pregnancy he was deceived into participating in makes no sense. Juliette believed Nick. She went to bed with Kenneth because she wanted to.
This assumes that Juliette was rational and reasonable at the time. She was driven by hatred and seeking revenge. Considering Kenneth's comments about the baby and everything else Juliette did in a short time period, it appears obvious, at least to me, that hurting Nick was part of her motivation. Of course, that does not rule out that that she felt abandoned and considered the attention from Kenneth as comforting.
(11-15-2018, 02:45 PM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]If the show wanted us to think she simply wanted to sleep with Kenneth as you claim, they would have shown us that but they didn’t on the actual show, Juliette didn’t seem remotely interested in jumping into bed with Kenneth until he brought up the point Nick and Adalind made there baby in that bed. Why did they show even have Kenneth say that statment in the first place if it didn’t have anything to do with Juliette jumping his bones the second he finished talking about Nick and Adalinds roll in the hay.
To know what Juliette was "remotely interested in", the audience would have had to have been clued in to what she was thinking. They were not. All the audience got was a confirmation from Juliette that the beanie baby was conceived in Nick's bed. That was in response to Kenneth's remark. However, Juliette already knew that..
As of yet, I still haven't heard exactly how Nick was hurt by all of this. He saw a messed up bed, big whoop.
(11-15-2018, 03:13 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2018, 01:53 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Juliette questioned Nick a couple of times about whether he knew if he was with Adalind or not. He denied it each and every time. Juliette not only quit questioning him, she went on to become the final ingredient in the spell to give Nick his grimm back.
So........for Juliette to sleep with Kenneth to get even with Nick for a pregnancy he was deceived into participating in makes no sense. Juliette believed Nick. She went to bed with Kenneth because she wanted to.
This assumes that Juliette was rational and reasonable at the time. She was driven by hatred and seeking revenge. Considering Kenneth's comments about the baby and everything else Juliette did in a short time period, it appears obvious, at least to me, that hurting Nick was part of her motivation. Of course, that does not rule out that that she felt abandoned and considered the attention from Kenneth as comforting.
I don't see any indication that Nick was even the least bit hurt by Juliette romping in the bed with Kenneth.
(11-15-2018, 02:20 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2018, 01:53 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2018, 01:10 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2018, 11:34 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Do you believe Nick knew he was sleeping with Adalind?
Not at all. Nick thought it was Juliette and never once) doubted it until the ride to the wedding. He didn't even believe Juliette when she said it wasn't her the first time she said it. He genuinely thought she was joking. He had no idea why she was so angry.
I know there have been conversations about Nick and how could he not know it wasn't Juliette due to routine, smell, touch, or whatever it may be but Nick never gave me any reason to doubt his belief that it was Juliette the entire time. He certainly didn't believe it was Adalind since she hadn't yet shown any ability to shapeshift and they didn't consider her a threat at the time..
Juliette questioned Nick a couple of times about whether he knew if he was with Adalind or not. He denied it each and every time. Juliette not only quit questioning him, she went on to become the final ingredient in the spell to give Nick his grimm back.
So........for Juliette to sleep with Kenneth to get even with Nick for a pregnancy he was deceived into participating in makes no sense. Juliette believed Nick. She went to bed with Kenneth because she wanted to.
That was a response to Juliette thinking Nick chose Adalind over her.
I was thinking about this response and wanted to put a different spin on it. While Juliette stated Nick chose Adalind, she may have had an opportunity to reconsider what really happened. What the incident in the precinct really came down to was Adalind, who, on the verge of desperation, had no choice other than to come to Nick. Kenneth had just dumped her so the protection afforded by the royals was gone.
Juliette was smart enough to secure her place among the royals by showing how valuable she was to them. Kenneth dumped Adalind, but opted to keep Juliette with him.
(11-15-2018, 03:30 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see any indication that Nick was even the least bit hurt by Juliette romping in the bed with Kenneth.
But I thought we agreed (Post #93) that Nick's reaction can not be used as an argument for Juliette's intentions.
(11-15-2018, 04:38 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I was thinking about this response and wanted to put a different spin on it. While Juliette stated Nick chose Adalind, she may have had an opportunity to reconsider what really happened. What the incident in the precinct really came down to was Adalind, who, on the verge of desperation, had no choice other than to come to Nick. Kenneth had just dumped her so the protection afforded by the royals was gone.
Juliette was smart enough to secure her place among the royals by showing how valuable she was to them. Kenneth dumped Adalind, but opted to keep Juliette with him.
What you say are saying is that Juliette was sleeping with Kenneth to show him loyalty? That is possible, but I still think hurting Nick appealed to her and was an important factor. Why else would Kenneth mention the baby? Adalind wouldn't give a damn about Juliette sleeping with Kenneth, thats for sure.
(11-15-2018, 06:00 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2018, 03:30 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see any indication that Nick was even the least bit hurt by Juliette romping in the bed with Kenneth.
But I thought we agreed (Post #93) that Nick's reaction can not be used as an argument for Juliette's intentions.
You're right. Let me revise this to state that I don't see Juliette going to bed with Kenneth as a motive for hurting Nick.
(11-15-2018, 06:00 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2018, 04:38 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I was thinking about this response and wanted to put a different spin on it. While Juliette stated Nick chose Adalind, she may have had an opportunity to reconsider what really happened. What the incident in the precinct really came down to was Adalind, who, on the verge of desperation, had no choice other than to come to Nick. Kenneth had just dumped her so the protection afforded by the royals was gone.
Juliette was smart enough to secure her place among the royals by showing how valuable she was to them. Kenneth dumped Adalind, but opted to keep Juliette with him.
What you say are saying is that Juliette was sleeping with Kenneth to show him loyalty? That is possible, but I still think hurting Nick appealed to her and was an important factor. Why else would Kenneth mention the baby? Adalind wouldn't give a damn about Juliette sleeping with Kenneth, thats for sure.
Would Kenneth really give a fig about whether Juliette's loyal to him or not? I mean, it never seemed to be a consideration before. So no, I don't think she slept with Kenneth out of loyalty. I think she wanted him so she slept with him.
As for Adalind, I don't think she cared for Kenneth either. But she liked living with the royals and Kenneth was the one threw her out because she was useless to him. As a result, she was forced to go to Nick. But it's very obvious that if Adalind could have stayed with the royals, she would have over going to Nick.
I think Juliette partly did it to hurt Nick.
Not precisely because she strutted before him counting.
That was already in his mind.
(11-15-2018, 06:00 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2018, 03:30 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see any indication that Nick was even the least bit hurt by Juliette romping in the bed with Kenneth.
But I thought we agreed (Post #93) that Nick's reaction can not be used as an argument for Juliette's intentions.
(11-15-2018, 04:38 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I was thinking about this response and wanted to put a different spin on it. While Juliette stated Nick chose Adalind, she may have had an opportunity to reconsider what really happened. What the incident in the precinct really came down to was Adalind, who, on the verge of desperation, had no choice other than to come to Nick. Kenneth had just dumped her so the protection afforded by the royals was gone.
Juliette was smart enough to secure her place among the royals by showing how valuable she was to them. Kenneth dumped Adalind, but opted to keep Juliette with him.
What you say are saying is that Juliette was sleeping with Kenneth to show him loyalty? That is possible, but I still think hurting Nick appealed to her and was an important factor. Why else would Kenneth mention the baby? Adalind wouldn't give a damn about Juliette sleeping with Kenneth, thats for sure.
N, stick to your guns. If Juliette wanted to show Kenneth her loyalty to him, she had plenty of opportunity to shag him while she was sleeping in Adailnd's hotel room that was part of Kenneth's Hotel Suite.
When Kenneth is at the house with Juliette and tells her to lets go see what was upstairs, it was no mystery to him on what he wold find. He wasn't looking for another exit. He knew exactly what was upstairs. The bedroom where Adalind's baby was conceived. He wanted to test just how far Juliette would go to betray Nick, after reminding her where he betrayed her and where it all took place.
Thew words she said to Kenneth about what he was dealing with was just that. She no longer gave a hoot about Nick.
The bigger question in all this is, to this whack-a-do contributor, you are banging heads with, and other Juliette supporters, is how they felt about Nick? While their hero, Juliette, was planning the demise of Nick's mom, killing off a bunch of neighbors, including a kid. Add int he shagging a few royals (Ken & Sean). What was Nick busy doing?
Nick was busy saving Sean, one of her gratuitous shagger's ass from being busted for killing a few hookers and Henrietta, as Jack the Ripper. Just one small detail some of these idiotic Juliette supporters seem to overlook.
This is where one of my main reasons I have referenced, the Nick character, as a "doofus". Instead of covering up and looking out for the back-stabbing Sean Renard? He should have taken better awareness of what was going on in his own surroundings, things might not have turned out as they did.
Again, I am removing myself out of what the creative team was planning and just commenting on the characters and how they were behaving.
(11-15-2018, 07:31 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]Eve as Renard was an impersonation "in the line of duty" to gather intel, and whatever she did with Rachel was incidental to that purpose. Whether that was immoral or not depends on how you view it when James Bond or various other fictional spies seduce people for information.
I had considered this as well, but what bothered me was Eve's own statement about Juliette. Paraphrasing, she wasn't "going there" any more.
So, *if* part of Juliette's immorality was due to her sexual trysts, it seems odd that that, even if done in the line of duty, would carry over.
If it's the conversation I think you're talking about, Eve was saying she didn't think about how Juliette would feel about something. Which is not the same thing as not doing things that Juliette did.