(11-19-2018, 05:21 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Juliette has made herself an ally, then later friend to the scoobies, saved lives, and fought BC just like the scoobies. In my opinion, she's changed and so immoral would not be a word to describe her beginning with her appearance in season 5.
She still has the sins of the past to haunt her. But she's learned from them, which is a sign of growth in the character.
You can’t really say she learned from her mistakes and had growth as a character when she was forced into a new personality. There was however one interesting exception, in season 6 when Eve was not a Hexenbiest and dying in the spice shop (s06e13):
Eve: Nick, go! They need your blood!
Nick: No!
Eve: Go!
Nick: Eve.Juliette.
Eve:
No regrets.
I think Juliette said on Nick, was not guilty for not knowing how to help her.
Juliette was the culprit, she decided to go that way.Was a person aware of what was doing, could not blame others.
(11-19-2018, 10:29 AM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]You can’t really say she learned from her mistakes and had growth as a character when she was forced into a new personality.
And you're splitting hairs by saying that just because she has a new name and was forced into being Eve, she can't make a change for the better. She had the opportunity to take back Juliette after the stick. She made the conscious decision to continue being Eve. Just because it's new personality doesn't mean she hasn't changed.
How could Eve become juliette after everything juliette did?.
(11-19-2018, 11:17 AM)brandon Wrote: [ -> ]How could Eve become juliette after everything juliette did?.
Are you asking about all of the things Juliette did or just the bad things?
(11-19-2018, 10:53 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2018, 10:29 AM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]You can’t really say she learned from her mistakes and had growth as a character when she was forced into a new personality.
And you're splitting hairs by saying that just because she has a new name and was forced into being Eve, she can't make a change for the better. She had the opportunity to take back Juliette after the stick. She made the conscious decision to continue being Eve. Just because it's new personality doesn't mean she hasn't changed.
There is no basis (which I can remember) for claiming it was a conscious decision to remain Eve. All we know is that her personality showed more resemblance to Juliette after the stick healing. She was still Eve. This is something you've also stated earlier, so I wonder - what is this based on?
This is the writer’s explanation:
TVLINE | Eve showing signs of Juliette returning: What can you tell me about what’s really going on?
GREENWALT | Well, the feelings have come back.
KOUF |
The stick opened up part of her.
To be clear: I do not say that those parts of Juliette's personality that came back were irrelevant, but there is no reason to believe that the hateful part was brought back. So it was hardly the old Juliette who actively chose to come back to the good side, ie continue to be Eve.
When they're on the other side, she explains her reasoning about life to Nick and starts with "When I was Juliette." However much of Juliette's personality she has reintegrated into herself, she still identifies as Eve.
I was referring to bad actions.
I think she decided to continue as Eve.
How could she be juliette again ?
I wonder how they- HW- resolved juliette's disappearance.
(11-19-2018, 01:13 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]There is no basis (which I can remember) for claiming it was a conscious decision to remain Eve. All we know is that her personality showed more resemblance to Juliette after the stick healing. She was still Eve. This is something you've also stated earlier, so I wonder - what is this based on?
This is the writer’s explanation:
TVLINE | Eve showing signs of Juliette returning: What can you tell me about what’s really going on?
GREENWALT | Well, the feelings have come back.
KOUF | The stick opened up part of her.
To be clear: I do not say that those parts of Juliette's personality that came back were irrelevant, but there is no reason to believe that the hateful part was brought back. So it was hardly the old Juliette who actively chose to come back to the good side, ie continue to be Eve.
First off, I don't agree with the TVLINE assessment that Eve is showing signs of Juliette returning. I never got the impression that Juliette was returning. I did, however, get the impression that Eve was evolving.
Secondly, Eve has changed with regard to how she views herself. During that time when from that first time she met Nick in the restaurant, she told Nick, "they call me Eve". When she was on the other side with Nick, she told him there are things *she* can't forgive Juliette for. I am paraphrasing here, but my point is that she went from impersonal third party to acknowledging that she is Eve. She also acknowledges that she knows what she did is wrong and at the same time, tells us she knows what forgiveness is all about.
(11-19-2018, 10:29 AM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]You can’t really say she learned from her mistakes and had growth as a character when she was forced into a new personality. There was however one interesting exception, in season 6 when Eve was not a Hexenbiest and dying in the spice shop (s06e13):
Eve: Nick, go! They need your blood!
Nick: No!
Eve: Go!
Nick: Eve.Juliette.
Eve: No regrets.
N, remember that scene was the beginning of the "Z" guy starting the killing off of all the people close to Nick so he could coerce Nick to hand over the stick. As we see in the end, all his friends were never actually killed. They all met their demise in that alternate world. A world that was never established as an alternative reality, maybe just in Nick's mind or something else.
So, my question to you about the scene you posted here. Was it something Nick wanted to hear from her or was it what the "Z" guy wanted him to hear from her? IMO, those words were never Eve/Juliette's words but the words of either Nick or Z-man.