Grimm Forum

(01-05-2019, 08:12 PM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-05-2019, 07:03 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-05-2019, 11:17 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-05-2019, 11:04 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]Yes she didn’t want to be pregnant with her emnimes child but she was also screaming because she didn’t want to be pregnant again while she still didn’t even have her first child it was an awkward situation all round. I got more a sense of fear from Adalind about the baby situation in season 4 than a hatred of Nick.

I can't have another baby! I don't even know where the first one is! Okay, breathe.
Breathe.
I can do this.

Viktor was the one who had Adalind tortured, then made her prostitute herself to Nick. If she still has the fortitude to plan on sleeping with and then claiming Viktor as the father to her unborn baby after all of that, that says a lot about her hatred of Nick.

Nick and Adalind were enemies, but Nick probably hated her more then she despised him. She was working for people who wanted the keys, she wanted revenge when he took her powers and she took drastic actions to get Diana back, but it’s an exaggeration to claim she despised Nick tremendously. From the beginning, Nick and Adalind had great chemistry, where she was sending him flirtatious looks, while he looked pissed.

She was convinced Nick wanted her dead. When she got pregnant, she could not tell Nick, because she was afraid of him, so she had to come up with an explanation to the royals. That’s why she made a panic decision to sleep with Viktor. When that didn’t work, and Kenneth discovered she was pregnant, she lied to protect herself, not because she hated Nick “tremendously”.

There was a scene that was only showed as a “episode trailer” where Adalind is daydreaming about telling Nick she’s pregnant, and he responds by joy, embraces her and tell her it’s the happiest day of his life. Suddenly the music stops, and we see Adalind staring into the air while saying something like, “yeah, like that’s gonna happen”. She told Juliette: “Thanks for that one-night stand with Nick, by the way. It was a real whopper”. Yes, she said that to irritate Juliette, but didn’t seemed to mind – she used sex in spells and for her own gain on several occasions. She didn’t look disgusted, the way she did when Renard suggested sleeping in the same room as her, so Bonaparte won’t be suspicious.

If she hated Nick “tremendously”, why did she behave the way she did as soon as she realized he wouldn't hurt her? She was manipulative in Renard’s office, Nick was angry, and she needed his help, but didn’t show any more of that behavior after they left the precinct. Do not say she had too, because her behavior was completely different than someone faking to stay alive. Asking Nick to sleep next to her the first night at the loft because she was afraid and worrying about him all the time. Your correct, Claire's a good actress, and it’s clear from her performance that you exaggerate a lot when you claim Adalind “despised Nick tremendously”.

I fully agree, to say she disliked him a lot is certainly true however claiming she despised him tremendously is going too far.

I also see Adalinds main motivation for not telling Nick sooner was fear, after all even after they made the cure for Juliette in 4x21 she still feared Nick would kill of her as soon as Juliette was cured.

Also another scene that also suggests she didn’t mind sleeping with Nick is right after they slept together when she was in Juliette’s form she says they should do this again sometime.

Also that trailer show Adalind daydreaming aired live on tv so it after the following epsisode so technically it’s not a deleted or removed scene.

Adalind willingly stripped herself of her Hexenbiests in 4x20 leaving herself completely at the mercy of Nick and completely incapable of defending herself against Juliette hardly the hard work.

Also Adalind seemed very genuine in 4x22 when she told Nick she was sorry about Kelly’s death, she even cringed when Nick walked away and had a look on her face as if to say she was embarrassed for saying that as it was awkward. All that appeared totally genuine to me.

The Nadalind arc was seeded in S1-E1, The Pilot. Was it planned? Probably not. I read somewhere the Adalind character was to be only on the show for a few episodes. Did the writers screw up the character development that thrusted the Adalind character further than intended? Obviously, it did.

Adalind, the villain was received by the audience of the show with high regards. So the creative team continued to include her and she ended up with a larger following than the Juliette character. That is one of the main reason Adalind was in only 89 episodes wile Juliette was in 119 episodes. More screen time does not equate more of a following.

Was this all part of the original plan. probably not The viewers acceptance of these characters was part of the creative team input to effect the inclusion of various characters.

Disagree, complain, make up shitz or bitch to any ones heart content. For what ever reason, The Nadalind arc had more chemistry than the Nicolette arc. Hey, don't blame me, I wasn't on the writing team. I was just a fan. This is why, the writers turned Juliette into that evil bitch and let her betray Nick.

Then they teamed up the most popular single male character with the most popular single female character to form the Nick/Adalind union. Notice, I excluded Monroe and Rosalee, since they were already a couple.

Was that the intent from the time they made The Pilot, IMO, Hell NO! Sometimes things don't go as planned and to continue to keep them advertising cash-ola coming, they had to adapt and the Nadalind arc was the result.

(01-05-2019, 11:53 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-05-2019, 07:03 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]If she hated Nick “tremendously”, why did she behave the way she did when she realized he wouldn't hurt her? She was manipulative in Renard’s office - Nick was angry, and she needed his help, but didn’t show much of that behavior after they left the precinct. Your correct, Claire's a good actress, and it’s clear from her performance that you exaggerate a lot when you claim Adalind “despised Nick tremendously”.

Nope, not exaggeration at all. As I pointed out earlier, Adalind was willing to name Viktor rather than Nick as the father of her unborn child. That was --after-- Viktor tortured her *and* forced her to prostitute herself, not to mention getting herself knocked up in the process. Further add insult to Nick by Adalind showing that if she could have stayed with the Viktor, who cared nothing for her, she would have. That sounds like a tremendous amount of hatred for Nick to me. Maybe you agree, maybe you don't. In any case, it clearly points to Adalind having no admiration for the grimm.

As for behaving the way she did, you've already pointed out Nick's reaction in the precinct many times. Consider the way he reacted to Juliette, who came in like a bullet train, full on threatening mode. In comparison, there was Adalind, who wandered in, beached whale pregnant with his child, desperate, and willing to barter.

Adalind's done some dumb things, but in this case, she was spot on perfect. As pointed out in the series, hexenbiests are great manipulators. Nick was manipulated by Juliette's aggressiveness, just as he was manipulated by Adalind's "woe is me" affect.

One of the creepiest things I have seen in the series is when Adalind forces Nick to "feel" the unborn baby and it's obvious he doesn't want to. Hexenbiest manipulation at its finest.

It didn't matter whether she had “admiration for the Grimm”, she was convinced Nick wanted her dead. She had tricked him into sleeping with her to take his powers, which also resulted in Juliette becoming a Hexenbiest. Adalind only told Kenneth that Viktor was the father to buy herself time. Adalind was not stupid, she understood perfectly that she could not trick Viktor into being the father when she had not slept with him. And the attempt to do was a panic decision, because the royals finding out she was pregnant with Nicks child would put her in even more danger. She said something like: “I have to sleep with someone, quick”. As soon as she learned Nick was willing to help her, despite everything, she showed more admiration for him than she had shown any other character on the show up to that point.

Nick feeling the baby was one of the creepiest things you seen in the series? I would rather point to the monster who was feeding on pregnant women by putting its tongue into the woman’s navel, or when Roselee dug out and mashed an eyeball from another Wesen to make a cure for Nick’s temporary blindness. And of course, Kelly’s head in the box.

I do not consider that Nick was manipulated by any of the women.
He was trying to do what was best for the creature that would be born.
I liked that he acted like this with juliette.
She behaved very aggressively, and has no justification.

Consider this: Adalind comes waddling the station, very pregnant and showing herself to be completely defenseless.

Now, Nick hasn't seen her in what? 8 months when she masqueraded herself to be Juliette?

So when she encounters Nick, does Nick ask any pertinent questions? No, there's a lot of flim flamming around and eventually Adalind gets to her "woe to me" speel that Nick is the father of her unborn baby, he needs to protect her, and she has something that can help Juliette. Juliette enters shortly after angry as hell, and so the situation turns to her.

You'd, first of all think that, Adalind, if she is indeed oh so frightened, would just go find a cop. She is, after all, in the police precinct and there's probably one sitting right behind the desk. Once Nick was found, he could see that Adalind is absolutely terrified. Quickly assessing the situation, he asks the obvious question:

"Adalind, what is wrong?"

To which Adalind would reply:

"Well, I was out shopping for maternity clothes with the royals and Juliette tried to drop a statue on my head. Fortunately for me, I had a guard and he pushed me out of the way. But now I need your protection because Kenneth has kicked me out and is working with Juliette to find Kelly because the royals want Diana. Oh, and my plan was to seduce Viktor into believing this kid was his. But it's not, it's your kid and we definitely have to talk."

Hexenbiest manipulation at its finest. Adalind managed to get Nick's buy in without having to fill in the nitty gritty details.

(01-06-2019, 09:24 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Consider this: Adalind comes waddling the station, very pregnant and showing herself to be completely defenseless.

Now, Nick hasn't seen her in what? 8 months when she masqueraded herself to be Juliette?

So when she encounters Nick, does Nick ask any pertinent questions? No, there's a lot of flim flamming around and eventually Adalind gets to her "woe to me" speel that Nick is the father of her unborn baby, he needs to protect her, and she has something that can help Juliette. Juliette enters shortly after angry as hell, and so the situation turns to her.

You'd, first of all think that, Adalind, if she is indeed oh so frightened, would just go find a cop. She is, after all, in the police precinct and there's probably one sitting right behind the desk. Once Nick was found, he could see that Adalind is absolutely terrified. Quickly assessing the situation, he asks the obvious question:

"Adalind, what is wrong?"

To which Adalind would reply:

"Well, I was out shopping for maternity clothes with the royals and Juliette tried to drop a statue on my head. Fortunately for me, I had a guard and he pushed me out of the way. But now I need your protection because Kenneth has kicked me out and is working with Juliette to find Kelly because the royals want Diana. Oh, and my plan was to seduce Viktor into believing this kid was his. But it's not, it's your kid and we definitely have to talk."

Hexenbiest manipulation at its finest. Adalind managed to get Nick's buy in without having to fill in the nitty gritty details.

Firstly, after everything that had happened, you think Nick would ask: "Adalind, what is wrong?". He would say exactly what he said on screen: “What the hell is she doing her”?

Secondly, why would Adalind go find a cop? She went to Renard’s office, because he would be able to get Nick. This was not a conversation they could have with other cops present - they didn’t even know Grimms and Hexenbiest exist.

Thirdly, and this is my main point, Adalind did not know Kenneth would work with Juliette to find Kelly. Yes, Kenneth told her, but Adalind did not think Juliette ever would betray Nick – she told Kenneth. More important, it is completely illogical. If the royals got Diana, Adalind would not get her daughter back. But Nick's mother had Diana. If Adalind could use Nick's child to get closer to him, that would increase her chances to see Diana again. She would have a personal interest to warn Nick. When she didn't, it was because she didn't think Juliette ever would betray Nick. She was making a suppression position by digging up and cocking her own mother. Why would she even do that if she thought Juliette had allied herself with Kenneth?

And why would Adalind tell Nick about Viktor?

(01-06-2019, 01:45 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]Firstly, after everything that had happened, you think Nick would ask: "Adalind, what is wrong?". He would say exactly what he said on screen: “What the hell is she doing her”?

Hey, if Nick is on the clock as a detective, then yes, his question to Adalind should be, "what's wrong?" If he's collecting pay and considers himself a grimm and not a detective, then I suppose "what the hell is she doing here?" is appropriate.

(01-06-2019, 01:45 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]Secondly, why would Adalind go find a cop? She went to Renard’s office, because he would be able to get Nick. This was not a conversation they could have with other cops present - they didn’t even know Grimms and Hexenbiest exist.

Oh, I don't think her telling another cop that her life is in danger and she wants to see Nick is a conversation she couldn't have with other cops present. After all, she fought with Juliette with other cops being present and no one thought anything of it.

(01-06-2019, 01:45 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]Thirdly, and this is my main point, Adalind did not know Kenneth would work with Juliette to find Kelly. Yes, Kenneth told her, but Adalind did not think Juliette ever would betray Nick – she told Kenneth. More important, it is completely illogical. If the royals got Diana, Adalind would not get her daughter back. But Nick's mother had Diana. If Adalind could use Nick's child to get closer to him, that would increase her chances to see Diana again. She would have a personal interest to warn Nick. When she didn't, it was because she didn't think Juliette ever would betray Nick. She was making a suppression position by digging up and cocking her own mother. Why would she even do that if she thought Juliette had allied herself with Kenneth?

You say "Adalind did not think Juliette would ever betray Nick". Yet Adalind participated in an angry exchange between herself, Juliette and Nick. An exchange to which Juliette stormed out of. Do you really believe after all of that, Adalind was still under the impression that Juliette would never betray Nick? Especially when Adalind herself told Juliette to get out?

(01-06-2019, 01:45 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]And why would Adalind tell Nick about Viktor?

She wouldn't any more than she would tell him anything else that would compromise her plans. It's all about Adalind's affect of "woe to me".

I mean, really, why would she say to Nick, "You know I loathed you so much that I was going to sleep with the man who tortured and prostituted me, and name him as the father of your kid. Just so you know."?

To do so would have completely shattered her ultimate hexenbiest manipulation of Nick.

Adalind really pissed Juliette off. We saw even Juliette said she would not betray Nick. But after Kenneth told her about the baby, then Adalind and Nick acting as they did. Working with the Royals was guaranteed. Consider Adalind came to Portland to get Diana. People ask why didn't Adalind tell Nick how her and Victor planned on getting Diana. Another question is why didn't Nick ask Adalind what was the plan. Why not ask why Adalind came to the house after Juliette. Juliette was out of jail, wouldn't Nick look and see who bailed her out. Nick is a detective, yet none of this raised concern that his mother was being lead into a trap. Like for no other reason , why wouldn't Adalind help Nick to keep the Royals from taking her child from Kelly.
It seems like Adalind was hedging her bet. If Nick failed and it did not work out. Not telling on the Royals might get her back into their good grace.

(01-06-2019, 06:40 PM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]Adalind really pissed Juliette off. We saw even Juliette said she would not betray Nick. But after Kenneth told her about the baby, then Adalind and Nick acting as they did. Working with the Royals was guaranteed. Consider Adalind came to Portland to get Diana. People ask why didn't Adalind tell Nick how her and Victor planned on getting Diana. Another question is why didn't Nick ask Adalind what was the plan. Why not ask why Adalind came to the house after Juliette. Juliette was out of jail, wouldn't Nick look and see who bailed her out. Nick is a detective, yet none of this raised concern that his mother was being lead into a trap. Like for no other reason , why wouldn't Adalind help Nick to keep the Royals from taking her child from Kelly.
It seems like Adalind was hedging her bet. If Nick failed and it did not work out. Not telling on the Royals might get her back into their good grace.

What you’ve stated above doesn’t match what took place on the show at all because how in the hell could Adalind help prevent the Royals getting Diana when she had no idea they’d actually succeed in the plan to turn Juliette. Adalind was shown to be totally shocked when she was informed the Royals had Diana and she was even more shocked when Nick told her Juliette helped take Dinana she stated with a shocked look that bitch has my kid. Even Rispoli who was head of Verat was shocked at just how far Kenneth was able to get Juliette to go, he stated he never actually thought she go through with it to Kenneth, Kenneth responded with I don’t think there a limit to what she’d do. So how on Earth is Adalind expected to know just how far Juliette would go.

Also if she was hegeding her bets as you falsely claim why did she help Nick right away when he told her Kelly was killed by the Royals ,she informed Nick right away it must have been Kenneth who killed her before he even asked her who it was, then she even helped Nick set up Kenneth in an ambush, these are hardly the actions of someone who’s hedging a their bet, she openly planted false evidence in the Royals hotel room so she was hardly trying to keep in thier good graces.

Quote: she had no idea they’d actually succeed in the plan to turn Juliette.

As pissed off as Juliette was, how would Adalind not think Juliette would want revenge.Juliette has already scared Adalind with the statue.

Quote:Even Rispoli who was head of Verat was shocked at just how far Kenneth was able to get Juliette to go, he stated he never actually thought she go through with it to Kenneth

Rispoli and Kenneth did not know that Adalind had really pissed her off in the station. Remember she left and went and burned the trailer. If that did not suggest to Nick and Adalind that Juliette was pissed, and will to even hurt Nick. That should have been more then enough for one of them to at least ask the question. The big question. ADalind what was the plan for getting Diana. Kenneth used used the same plan Juliette and Victor was using. Us Juliette to get to Nick mom. That is what Adalind and Victor where going to do. That is what Kenneth and Juliette did.
Why did she tell Nick about Kenneth because Kenneth had her child and Nick said he would take care of her and his child. After discovering his mothers head. Nick then ask, and Adalind says that would be Kenneth. That he took over after Victor and where to find them. Good information to know before they attacked his mother at his house. He then ends with they couldn't have known they would have gotten Diana tonight. Adalind says nothing about if Juliette is with them, they could not have known your mother was coming. Information that Adalind knew and would have been really helpful in episode 21. Even the part about Nick saying the Royals have Diana. Adalind goes, I thought she was with your mother. Remember Adalind was not suppose to know Kelly had Diana. If she knew that then the Royals knew. Remember she only knew because with the Royals help they figured it out. Here is another thing that makes me wonder about Adalind. When she was telling Nick she was sorry about his mother. That she died trying to save her daughter. What was that look she gave after Nick left.

(01-07-2019, 02:57 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote: she had no idea they’d actually succeed in the plan to turn Juliette.

As pissed off as Juliette was, how would Adalind not think Juliette would want revenge.Juliette has already scared Adalind with the statue.

Quote:Even Rispoli who was head of Verat was shocked at just how far Kenneth was able to get Juliette to go, he stated he never actually thought she go through with it to Kenneth

Rispoli and Kenneth did not know that Adalind had really pissed her off in the station. Remember she left and went and burned the trailer. If that did not suggest to Nick and Adalind that Juliette was pissed, and will to even hurt Nick. That should have been more then enough for one of them to at least ask the question. The big question. ADalind what was the plan for getting Diana. Kenneth used used the same plan Juliette and Victor was using. Us Juliette to get to Nick mom. That is what Adalind and Victor where going to do. That is what Kenneth and Juliette did.
Why did she tell Nick about Kenneth because Kenneth had her child and Nick said he would take care of her and his child. After discovering his mothers head. Nick then ask, and Adalind says that would be Kenneth. That he took over after Victor and where to find them. Good information to know before they attacked his mother at his house. He then ends with they couldn't have known they would have gotten Diana tonight. Adalind says nothing about if Juliette is with them, they could not have known your mother was coming. Information that Adalind knew and would have been really helpful in episode 21. Even the part about Nick saying the Royals have Diana. Adalind goes, I thought she was with your mother. Remember Adalind was not suppose to know Kelly had Diana. If she knew that then the Royals knew. Remember she only knew because with the Royals help they figured it out. Here is another thing that makes me wonder about Adalind. When she was telling Nick she was sorry about his mother. That she died trying to save her daughter. What was that look she gave after Nick left.

Kenneth and Viktor weren’t using the same plan and it was never stated they were, yes they both knew Juliette was a major weakness for Nick and planned on exploiting that to find the child but it doesn’t mean they had the same plan. Adalind went after Juliette in 4x13 aggressively it was her idea to attack Juliette not Viktors he wanted to be more cautious, Adalind was planning on getting information from Juliette on where her child was as she thought Juliette played a part in the kidnapping and thanks to Damerov that was confirmed when he reveled kelly used a car registered in Juliettes name to flee with Diana. Viktor then knew Juliette was involved and allowed Adalind to go after her for information.

There was not one single hint of a plan to lure Kelly to Portland until after Kenneth spoke with Juliette and they formed that idea together after Juliette confirmed to him that Nick had a way to contact Kelly.

The Below scene explains why they were going after Juliette Adalind: We need to get to Juliette.
Viktor: Not just yet.
Adalind: Then what are we doing?
Viktor: It's called back channel diplomacy, and it cannot be done truly effectively when done so loudly.
Rispoli: [Coming into the room] He's here.
Viktor: Mm. [He takes a drink of tea]
Adalind: Who?
Viktor: Just watch and hopefully, learn.
[Damerov comes into the room]
Viktor: So what did Renard tell you?
Damerov: Kelly Burkhardt was last known to be driving a 2008 Ford F250 Crew Cab, Oregon Dov 412, registered to Juliette Silverton.
Viktor: So Miss Silverton did have a role to play.
Damerov: Well, three months ago, the truck was reregistered to a Dennis and Helen Becker in Spokane, Washington. So she sold the truck.
Viktor: Do you think you can find her?
Damerov: Oh, I'll find her.
Viktor: I look forward to hearing from you.
[Damerov leaves]
Viktor: [To Adalind] That's diplomacy.
Adalind: So let me try a little bit of it on Juliette.


Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk...ode=s04e13


Also Kenneth did know exactly what happened in the station because Juliette told him that Nick defended Adalind in the station after everything she’d done to them.

You can make up whatever you want but on screen Adalind didn’t realize Juliette was working with the Royals until Nick told her they had Diana.


It was a clear akward look Adalind had on her face when she said she was sorry about Kelly’s death as Nick walked away, Nick had an akward look as well I don’t hear trying to imply something by the look on his face, it was two former bitter enemies sharing a moment of compassion, it was supossed to be awkward also Adalind winced a bit in embarrassment as if she’d come on to strong with her condolences ,but Adalnd showed genuine emipthy towards Nick in that scene it was not one bit manipulative , she truly felt bad for Nick in that scene, she also proved it in season 5 by calling her son Kelly.

Also your theory about Adalind

Also Adalinds not a mind reader she doesn’t know Juliette has joined Kenneth, she doesn’t know Juliette is luring Nicks mom to town all Adalind knows is Kenneth is attempting to get Juliette to help him find Diana, the only thing Adalind is guilty of is not telling Nick that Kenneth is attempting to use Juliette to find Diana but she had also expressed great doubt that Juliette would ever work for Kenneth.

Where's Adalind? She's asleep.
I need to talk to her.
About what? The Royals have Diana.
What? I thought she was with your mother.
My mother's dead.
Kelly's dead? Oh, Nick I'm going to kill whoever did this.
That would be Kenneth.
He took over when the King recalled Viktor to Vienna.
And Rispoli.
He's in charge of the Verrat.
Where were the Royals staying? Here, at the Penthouse at the Hotel deluxe.
Do you think they're still there? Well, they couldn't have known they'd get Diana tonight.
Nick, I want her back.

Also as you can see above Nick just says he’ll kill whoever did this, Adalind responds by telling him it was Kenneth he doesn’t even have to ask her.


Hank- It's Nick and Hank.
Nick- Juliette's a Hexenbiest? Yeah.
And she's with the Royals.
Adalind-That bitch has my kid? She helped the Royals take her.
We're going to need you on this.
You got it.

That above scene is the moment Adalind figures out Juliette is working with the Royals for certain anything else is you making things up to suit an agenda.

Adalinds done plenty of terrible things, playing a part in Marie’s death, trying to kill Marie, helping to set up Frau Pech and chopping her up , putting Juliette in a comma, assaulting Hank, trying to sell Diana so you don’t have to make up false crimes she’s done just to make excuses for Juliette.

Also what the hell are you talking about the gang have known from 4x12 when Renard told them that Adalind and the Royals know Kelly has Diana so her saying I thought the Royals had Diana in 4x22 is not a revelation to anyone.

Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk...ode=s04e22

Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk...ode=s04e22