That's not what I called an odd statement at all. This was the odd statement I was referring to:
Quote:For your information, I have not written anything on the Grimm wiki.
I never accused you of writing anything in the Grimm wiki. Where you came up with that bit of brilliance, who knows.
(04-20-2019, 08:18 AM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]As for Nick’s abilities as a detective: Nick solved all his cases. How could he possibly have done better? It’s not normal in detective shows that good detectives constantly rise through the ranks. Nick is a Grimm. His abilities are put to best use in the field, not true management. Nick becomes less cop and more Grimm over time.
So then why get all huffy when I stated that I see grimms as more of a brute force than anything else?
(04-20-2019, 08:18 AM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]The bottom line: this all started with your odd statement “Grimms were never portrayed as clever or extremely intelligent beings”. My point: Nick's Grimm abilities gave him an advantage. It seems like you try to twist what we saw, Nick being a good /successful detective, to Nick not being very smart, by grabbing straw argument, like Nick not being a Sergeant or captain.
I'm not twisting anything. Nick solved all his cases. He didn't do it alone though. He the help of Hank, Wu and in a lot of the cases, the scoobies. Could Nick have solved them all on his own? We'll never know.
During the pilot, Marie tells Nick not to hunt the good ones.
Why say anything at all? Because she's telling him he's a brute force and not an objective or understanding one at that. *She's* figuring he'll never get it on his own and so he'll hunt them all.
What you took from Grimm wiki is not just applicable to Nick and Nick alone. All of these grimms have fantastic memory and sooper dooper perception. If Nick is really going to do some good and change things, maybe he should have thought that he could have done so from a higher vantage point than that of a successful detective/police officer.
Not many like the character of Renard, but Renard fought for everything he's got. He rose to the ranks of captain, not an easy feat. Top it off with the fact, that he's not a hell of a lot older than Nick. Further top it off with the fact that he doesn't have sooper dooper perception or a fantastic memory.
Finally, you clearly like debating this so quit acting like you're so offended by what I write.
(04-20-2019, 08:28 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Not many like the character of Renard, but Renard fought for everything he's got. He rose to the ranks of captain, not an easy feat. Top it off with the fact, that he's not a hell of a lot older than Nick. Further top it off with the fact that he doesn't have sooper dooper perception or a fantastic memory.
Finally, you clearly like debating this so quit acting like you're so offended by what I write.
Renard is 12 years older than Nick. We do not know when he became captain or what position Nick has 12 years into the future. What makes you think I’m offended?
FYI, the PPB has seven ranks below lieutenant, and they're just pay grades (unlike the military where people can actually give orders to those of lower rank). Lieutenants are more likely to be placed in charge of task forces or groups within a division, but that's because people of that rank tend to have more OTJ experience.
BTW, TV detectives (and not just on Grimm) are frequently seen in charge of the case of the week from the very start, telling CSIs and uniformed officers to cordon off crime scenes and to make sure they fingerprint or photograph something. This is utter BS, because CSIs (who, BTW, are also detectives) are the better trained evidence gatherers and the ones in charge of crime scenes. Case detectives, if they are even assigned to a case while the crime scene is still active (they're usually not), wait until CSI finishes its work and clears the scene for others to go in and have a look.
(04-20-2019, 10:47 AM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2019, 08:28 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Not many like the character of Renard, but Renard fought for everything he's got. He rose to the ranks of captain, not an easy feat. Top it off with the fact, that he's not a hell of a lot older than Nick. Further top it off with the fact that he doesn't have sooper dooper perception or a fantastic memory.
Finally, you clearly like debating this so quit acting like you're so offended by what I write.
Renard is 12 years older than Nick. We do not know when he became captain or what position Nick has 12 years into the future. What makes you think I’m offended?
There's nothing to indicate Renard was a newly formed captain at the beginning of the series. In fact, the series seems to indicate he was comfortable in the role of command, and had no issues with any of his subordinates.
Just the way you write sometimes.
(04-20-2019, 11:13 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]FYI, the PPB has seven ranks below lieutenant, and they're just pay grades (unlike the military where people can actually give orders to those of lower rank). Lieutenants are more likely to be placed in charge of task forces or groups within a division, but that's because people of that rank tend to have more OTJ experience.
BTW, TV detectives (and not just on Grimm) are frequently seen in charge of the case of the week from the very start, telling CSIs and uniformed officers to cordon off crime scenes and to make sure they fingerprint or photograph something. This is utter BS, because CSIs (who, BTW, are also detectives) are the better trained evidence gatherers and the ones in charge of crime scenes. Case detectives, if they are even assigned to a case while the crime scene is still active (they're usually not), wait until CSI finishes its work and clears the scene for others to go in and have a look.
In the city where I live, police ranks do not consist of pay grades but actual ranks. For example, sergeants are hands on and in charge of their respective units. Lieutenants are responsible for reporting to the captains, supervising their respective sergeants, budgeting, etc. Ranking administration, so to speak. Of course, Portland is larger and no doubt can afford the various pay grades. In a smaller city similar to that in which I live, it's not the case because there just aren't the funds for maintaining more than the necessary levels of command.
Portland has a uniformed force of about 1000 officers. Rank and assignment are not linked. Rank defines pay range, assignment defines authority. Command may require a person of a certain rank, but that doesn't mean that every person who holds that rank has a command. Lieutenants can be in charge of units that have other lieutenants in it who are in charge of no one. And sergeants assigned to lead task forces can be directing lieutenants who are assigned to the team.
On Grimm, Wu appears to be in charge of dispatching patrol units and crime scene officers and assigning detectives to cases, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he has a higher rank than any of them. Likewise, Nick and Hank are seen directing Wu to do things for them on their cases, but the fact that they're the leads on those cases doesn't mean that they outrank Wu. It's just that their assigned duties make them the leads for different functions. We never learn what ranks Nick and Hank have, but it's entirely plausible that all three of them could be sergeants, or that Wu could be more highly ranked than both of them.
Like I said, that all works for Portland. In a smaller city setting like my city, it would not.
(04-20-2019, 12:15 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]There's nothing to indicate Renard was a newly formed captain at the beginning of the series. In fact, the series seems to indicate he was comfortable in the role of command, and had no issues with any of his subordinates.
Renard had royal blood and knew many powerful people. If what we saw in the series was some indication, it was hardly just hard work and skill that had brought him to where he was.
I recently saw the first episodes of Grimm, and one gets a strong impression that Nick is quite fresh as a detective. Hank has worked on cases five years earlier that Nick has not been part of, and Nick has never shot anyone before the pilot episode. We know that Nick is younger than Hank, but the age difference is not clear.
(04-20-2019, 12:15 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Just the way you write sometimes.
Oh well.
(04-20-2019, 02:44 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]Renard had royal blood and knew many powerful people. If what we saw in the series was some indication, it was hardly just hard work and skill that had brought him to where he was.
Because you see Renard as evil, you believe everything was easy for him. I don't see it that way. In this day and age in the US, Renard would not have had a captain's job just handed to him simply because he's a bastard royal in another country. For another, I don't know who all of these powerful people are that you speak of. Maybe in Austria, perhaps, but that isn't going to do him any good in the US. Renard has shown himself to be smart, clever and resourceful. It's not a stretch of the imagination to believe that, based on having to flee from one country to another, Renard worked very hard to get where he wanted to be.
Most real cops never shoot anyone, so the fact that Nick had never shot anyone at the time of the pilot doesn't really tell us anything.
In S06 "Blind Love," we learned that Nick had put the WotW's father away for murder seven years ago, which would have been a year before the series began. So he wasn't totally wet behind the ears as a Homicide investigator.
Renard's advantage outside of normal police work may have been his criminal wesen contacts. Perhaps he traded for information that enabled him to make arrests that advanced his police career while eliminating his allies' competition.
(04-20-2019, 03:18 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2019, 02:44 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]Renard had royal blood and knew many powerful people. If what we saw in the series was some indication, it was hardly just hard work and skill that had brought him to where he was.
Because you see Renard as evil, you believe everything was easy for him. I don't see it that way. In this day and age in the US, Renard would not have had a captain's job just handed to him simply because he's a bastard royal in another country. For another, I don't know who all of these powerful people are that you speak of. Maybe in Austria, perhaps, but that isn't going to do him any good in the US. Renard has shown himself to be smart, clever and resourceful. It's not a stretch of the imagination to believe that, based on having to flee from one country to another, Renard worked very hard to get where he wanted to be.
It funny how you talk warmly about the villain Renard, but see Nick and the Scoobies as terrible people.