(09-14-2017, 03:05 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: [ -> ] (09-14-2017, 02:00 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]I liked Nick too, even with his extreme kissing up to Juliette.
You've REALLY got a problem with that, don't you? How exactly is Nick hunkering down with Adalind supposed to be an improvement? If anything, it's just a reversal of the dynamic you're (wrongfully) criticizing about the Nick/Juliette relationship, with Adalind the sniveling domesticated wimp instead of Nick.
Then again, I can see why that would appeal to you.
I think it's quite jarring to see Nick act like a lovesick puppy around Juliette, and taking in whatever abuse she gave him. That's probably why I felt that their dynamic didn't work out. When Adalind was with Nick, he never yelled, mistreated, blamed or expected her to change for him. Her motivation to change was because she wanted to become a good mother to her son, and yes, her love for Nick also caused her to become a better person. But that was her personal choice. Nick never forced her into changing for him. They both compromised, accepted each other for who they were, faults and all. That's why I also loved Monroe and Rosalee's relationship. There was a level of comfort and acceptance between them that was lacking with Nick and Juliette. I was okay with their coupling at first, but Juliette became increasingly demanding, always expecting Nick to drop everything or do anything based on her whims. She began to come across as 'high maintenance', Nick practically grovelled and complied to her every need. I don't expect him to act like a cave man neanderthal, but Nick shouldn't have to change who he is just because Juliette wants him to.
Nick was pretty much what I would have expected from someone who as he neared 30 discovered that the entire world view he grew up with was a lie, and even more so when events revealed that the lie was a centuries-old conspiracy that apparently reached up to the highest levels of world authority. He had three options: withdraw from society and become a hermit; become Agent Mulder and try to uncover the full breadth of the global conspiracy with the goal of exposing it; or do his best to try to integrate the newly discovered reality into the life he was living and the "protect and serve" oath he had already taken. Which was a hopeless impossibility from the start.
And the first two options wouldn't have gotten a TV series made.
(09-14-2017, 03:45 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]Nick was pretty much what I would have expected from someone who as he neared 30 discovered that the entire world view he grew up with was a lie, and even more so when events revealed that the lie was a centuries-old conspiracy that apparently reached up to the highest levels of world authority. He had three options: withdraw from society and become a hermit; become Agent Mulder and try to uncover the full breadth of the global conspiracy with the goal of exposing it; or do his best to try to integrate the newly discovered reality into the life he was living and the "protect and serve" oath he had already taken. Which was a hopeless impossibility from the start.
And the first two options wouldn't have gotten a TV series made.
I think it isn't in Nick's character to become a hermit type person nor be a traditional type of grimm. It was obvious from the start of the series that he longed for family and stability.
(09-14-2017, 03:05 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: [ -> ] (09-14-2017, 02:00 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]I liked Nick too, even with his extreme kissing up to Juliette.
You've REALLY got a problem with that, don't you? How exactly is Nick hunkering down with Adalind supposed to be an improvement? If anything, it's just a reversal of the dynamic you're (wrongfully) criticizing about the Nick/Juliette relationship, with Adalind the sniveling domesticated wimp instead of Nick.
Then again, I can see why that would appeal to you.
Based on some of your writings in "Fan Creations", I posted that "feeling" twice and on purpose knowing it would bring you out. Think of it as a elbow jab to your ribs. ROFLOL!
Watch the movie Tryst, 2005 version. You will love the smuck husband character in that movie. He is right up your ally.
(09-14-2017, 09:07 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]From what I've observed, I don't think some of the people who criticize Nick regularly do it because of flaws. I think they do it because they feel like the show didn't acknowledge them as flaws or fans give him a pass for them. I could be wrong but that's the impression I get.
I've seen this in other fandoms with Jon Snow. He's held up as a golden boy and his flaws get blamed on other characters. For example, something he did wrong last season is somehow Sansa's fault. I won't get into the specifics but anyone who watches GoT can probably figure it out.
Then again, some of the criticism Nick gets is so extreme I have no explanation for it. Anyone who criticizes him for anything he does clearly thinks the guy is nothing but flaws.
I'm actually one of those who criticized him severely, mainly because as a grimm, he was a stark contrast to a cop. I hold our men in blue in high regard. So he was a good grimm and a bad cop. However, through the thoughtful postings of some here, I have come to realize that Nick was really fighting his own private war, none of the scoobies were what I'd term as good people so really, all of them were one form of bad versus another form of bad.
But I still don't like him.
Nick and the scoobies are very much a redress of the "ends justify the means" protagonists of series like 24 with some new twists (because that's how TV creates things, by adding new twists to things you've seen before). As with these other series, the hero figure is tasked with protecting the innocent - or all of society - from antagonists that "the system" and its rules are either totally unprepared to deal with, or may actually be deliberately set up to secretly support. He can either stay "within the lines" and let the innocent suffer at the hands of victimizers he sees all around him, or he can choose to take action outside the boundaries.
Nick's situation is made even more complex by the fact that many of the people he's either trying to protect or is depending upon for help are convinced based on their history that their very existence must remain secret or society itself will do worse to them than any of the threats they currently have to worry about.
The majority of wesen remain hidden so Nick doesn't have to lose any sweat over them. I don't even think the majority of wesen want the freedom of being able to woge whenever. What does a wesen gain with this freedom if he finds out his neighbor is another species and they have a blood hatred among them? Is Nick going to be there to negotiate a peace treaty between the neighbors? No way.
Nick cannot beat the system. Despite his efforts, there are still victims. Despite his efforts, the innocent will continue to suffer. Despite his efforts, criminals will still win the day in some circumstances.
I think Nick has come to terms with that, so he picks his battles and turned his efforts into a private war. Some win, some lose. He just knows he will never make a difference and really, would we want him to? Things might be a hell of a lot worse if he was able to have his way.
Nick's never tried to "beat the system." That was Agent Mulder, trying to dig into and expose secrets nobody wanted him to uncover. Nick is just the typical TV cop who isn't willing to just walk away from a crime because the rule book says he can't take action; the only difference is that when a crime looks like the work of an animal, it often is.
For anyone to hate the character “Nick” for unable to uphold the law by the book, must have never watched any other cop, hero, superhero or whatever show on TV or in the movies.
Anyone trying to make an argument based on this type or reasoning is either, just trying to argue for entertainment purposes, or they are off their meds.
It's nigh impossible these days to find a character/protagonist/hero/heroine who does anything strictly by the book. Those characters have become unappealing to the millenials and have been rendered obsolete hence the rise and rise of grey characters who aren't afraid to step outside the moral/judicial boundaries, a "means justify the ends" propergation.