(09-23-2017, 09:23 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]Have to correct myself here. Please substitute "harrassment" for "assault" WRT the cyclist's actions.
Any touch that follows someone telling you not to touch is harassment. Not sexual harassment; that has additional qualifiers. Just plain old simple harassment.
And the other person need not be in fear.
The outcome is still the same, because there was no reason to believe that what happened was caused by intention or negligence on her part, unless you want to argue that she never should have gone out at all.
If you want to argue that fudging reports constituted corruption, I won't dispute that, because it could probably get Nick fired. Though in the societal panic that would follow the exposure of the existence of wesen getting fired would probably be the least of his worries.
I'm not so sure the girl is as innocent as portrayed. In the case of people who drive while intoxicated and kill a pedestrian, they are still guilty. Most probably didn't intend to kill the pedestrian. But it happened, the pedestrian is dead. The girl says she didn't mean to poison the biker, but just like the intoxicated driver, she did. She couldn't help herself.
I get she's a wesen and that might instill panic, although I really don't see that as a valid reason. Man's been reaching out in space for decades now. To state we'd all turn into frightened putty at another species of human seems, well, as stereotypical as the dead man in this episode.
I do wonder if she would have been safe to touch if she wore a full body latex catsuit...
Unlike the intoxicated driver, the girl in this episode took no action to make herself dangerous. So you'd have to argue that she's so inherently dangerous that even being around other people constituted either criminal or civil negligence on her part.
(09-23-2017, 09:31 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]I do wonder if she would have been safe to touch if she wore a full body latex catsuit...
lol, that's pretty good. Luckily you're not following her on a bike though. You'd be toast, simply for thinking as much.
(09-23-2017, 08:45 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Let's reiterate the episode. And before certain others come butting into the thread yet again with useless statements because they lack the intelligence to participate, I'll state this. I got this from Grimm Wiki.
So....you have the guy who doesn't go with the pack, but decides to pursue to pretty girl on the bike. She tells him she's not interested, so he continues to follow her anyway.
Right there, the guy must have evil intentions on his mind, he's ignoring her request.
She rides over a hole and has an accident. She is bleeding. He comments it's good that he's following her.
Right there, stop. No it's not. He's got ulterior motives in mind.
She asks why he's following her. He says he wants to apologize for an earlier incident with another biker.
Right there, stop. No he doesn't. He's a liar and wants to rape her. He's not fooling anyone. Look at that lustful gleam in his eye.
But, being the noble person she is, she tells him she knows about the other biker and she has to go. He says she's always in a hurry and also tells her she's bleeding. He tries to touch her and she says "don't" and steps back before he can.
Stop right there. He has no intention of helping her. He's a liar and wants to rape her. He still has the lustful gleam in his eye.
He tells her how he feels about her. She turns from him and tells him to go. He asks what he did.
Stop right there. This is simply a ploy. He doesn't care what she thinks of him.
She asks him not to touch her. He puts his hands on her and says he's not leaving because she's hurt and he loves her.
Stop right there. He's a liar and only wants to rape her. Putting his hands on her is clear evidence of assault.
She woges and warned him that he shouldn't have touched her. He dies. She runs away.
Nick puts it all together and decided the girl is innocent even though she never ever told him she felt she was in any danger.
Nick was corrupt in all of this, there's no question in my mind.
But I still cannot understand why more men aren't outraged over the stereotypical man portrayal in this episode.
Because more men are like this in real life thats why.
Let's assume the frog girl is charged with the rider's death. If the regular world does not know about wessen, the defense would ask their expert witness how much frog venom it would take to kill-answer, way too much for a girl repairing bikes to afford. Not guilty, your honor. If the regular world knew about wessen, to convict a volunteer would have to get aroused and touch her. Any volunteers?
Case dismissed. Also issues of the Fifth Amendment. If the regular world knew about wessen, the Grimm books would be published so the regular police would know what clues to look for. Then there would be problems verifying which were the real books and which were fakes. Too complicated to be of any use. If Nick were to report to the regular world that crimes were being committed by fantastic creatures that only he could see, he would be sent to a padded cell like Wu. I am sure the federal judge would be glad to sign the commitment order. HW might hire him as long as he kept his mouth shut. IMO Nick worked to protect and serve both worlds and did a fairly decent job of doing so.
In S05 we learn about the existence of HW, which tells us that the governments of the USA and every other country that are part of the organization are in fact aware of the existence of wesen. And Chavez as part of HW checking out Nick and Trubel tells us that those governments are recruiting both grimms and wesen.
World governments are conspiring to keep the existence of wesen secret. Anything that poses a serious threat to that secrecy will most likely result in a visit from some MIB types.
(09-23-2017, 04:51 PM)eric Wrote: [ -> ]Let's assume the frog girl is charged with the rider's death. If the regular world does not know about wessen, the defense would ask their expert witness how much frog venom it would take to kill-answer, way too much for a girl repairing bikes to afford. Not guilty, your honor. If the regular world knew about wessen, to convict a volunteer would have to get aroused and touch her. Any volunteers? Case dismissed. Also issues of the Fifth Amendment. If the regular world knew about wessen, the Grimm books would be published so the regular police would know what clues to look for. Then there would be problems verifying which were the real books and which were fakes. Too complicated to be of any use. If Nick were to report to the regular world that crimes were being committed by fantastic creatures that only he could see, he would be sent to a padded cell like Wu. I am sure the federal judge would be glad to sign the commitment order. HW might hire him as long as he kept his mouth shut. IMO Nick worked to protect and serve both worlds and did a fairly decent job of doing so.
I think you give humans very little credit. You assume that just because they're unaware of the wesen race, they can't solve a wesen related murder. Humans were solving wesen related crimes way before Nick arrived on the scene. They'll be solving wesen related crimes after Nick's dust.
Wesen criminals used behave in a fairly restrained manner toward kehrseite. If they used their woges to victimize kehrseite or did anything that might expose the existence of wesen to the kehrseite world a marechaussee or some other hired killer would be dispatched by the Wesen Council to exact the death penalty for violating the Gesetzbuch Ehrenkodex. So if they got caught by the cops they just kept their heads down, went to trial and did their time if convicted (hence the wesen convicts when Nick and Hank visited prison). Unless they saw the cop was a grimm.
I wonder what happens once word gets out to the wesen community at large that the WC has been eliminated.
(09-23-2017, 05:40 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]Wesen criminals used behave in a fairly restrained manner toward kehrseite. If they used their woges to victimize kehrseite or did anything that might expose the existence of wesen to the kehrseite world a marechaussee or some other hired killer would be dispatched by the Wesen Council to exact the death penalty for violating the Gesetzbuch Ehrenkodex. So if they got caught by the cops they just kept their heads down, went to trial and did their time if convicted (hence the wesen convicts when Nick and Hank visited prison). Unless they saw the cop was a grimm.
I wonder what happens once word gets out to the wesen community at large that the WC has been eliminated.
I don't give the wesen council all that much credit. BC was able to come in and wipe them out with no problem whatsoever.
I think they overestimated their own place in the wesen world and got sloppy. They had probably been coasting on their past history for a long time.