(10-29-2017, 10:29 AM)silver Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:25 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]I think they slept together and if they did what she did with Rachel is no worse or better than what Adalind did with Nick their both equally wrong.
You never cease to amaze, Henry. Adalind had hex powers that she HAD TO KNOW very well may affect Nick and/or Juliette. Eve went in, with only the intent to get information - not separate Nick's Grimm power (THE key part of himself and his persona). Nothing Eve did caused anybody's death or immense changes to the persons involved, nor did she try to.
Adalind did know what having sex with Nick would do, that was the point because she was lead to believe that by carrying out the task, she would finally get to see her daughter. When Eve realised how intimate the relationship with Rachel was, she adjusted primary plans, what she was willing to do herself that night to accomplish her mission. None of the two women personally wanted to have sex with their targets (neither woke up that morning with a desire to have sex with their enemy just for kicks) but it was necessary if they would be successful in their personal mission. For Adalind, that was to finally see Diana for the first time since the day she was kidnapped an instruction she got from Viktor, so that in itself wasn't her intention either, for Eve, it was to discover what BC's plans were for/with Renard. How the two women carried out their mission shouldn't add or take away from what they intention was at the end of the day/night. Not once was Adalind acting out of selfish interest that day. She was acting out of a mother's desperation. When she left Nick's place she wasn't thrilled over what she'd done. She flew straight to Vienna to the man she believed had her daughter and instead of getting what she'd hopped for following his instructions, he threw her into a dungeon that warped her senses and abilities to punish her.
As I said earlier Nick and sadly Juliette reaped the consequences of stealing Diana away from her mother. Everything that happened stems from that one decision to separate mother and daughter without thinking of the consequences. Viktor took advantage of the truth and manipulated Adalind to punish Nick for succeeding where he had failed.
(10-29-2017, 10:59 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:29 AM)silver Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:25 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]I think they slept together and if they did what she did with Rachel is no worse or better than what Adalind did with Nick their both equally wrong.
You never cease to amaze, Henry. Adalind had hex powers that she HAD TO KNOW very well may affect Nick and/or Juliette. Eve went in, with only the intent to get information - not separate Nick's Grimm power (THE key part of himself and his persona). Nothing Eve did caused anybody's death or immense changes to the persons involved, nor did she try to.
Adalind did know what having sex with Nick would do, that was the point because she was lead to believe that by carrying out the task, she would finally get to see her daughter. When Eve realised how intimate the relationship with Rachel was, she adjusted primary plans, what she was willing to do herself that night to accomplish her mission. None of the two women personally wanted to have sex with their targets (neither woke up that morning with a desire to have sex with their enemy just for kicks) but it was necessary if they would be successful in their personal mission. For Adalind, that was to finally see Diana for the first time since the day she was kidnapped an instruction she got from Viktor, so that in itself wasn't her intention either, for Eve, it was to discover what BC's plans were for/with Renard. How the two women carried out their mission shouldn't add or take away from what they intention was at the end of the day/night. Not once was Adalind acting out of selfish interest that day. She was acting out of a mother's desperation. When she left Nick's place she wasn't thrilled over what she'd done. She flew straight to Vienna to the man she believed had her daughter and instead of getting what she'd hopped for following his instructions, he threw her into a dungeon that warped her senses and abilities to punish her.
As I said earlier Nick and sadly Juliette reaped the consequences of stealing Diana away from her mother. Everything that happened stems from that one decision to separate mother and daughter without thinking of the consequences. Viktor took advantage of the truth and manipulated Adalind to punish Nick for succeeding where he had failed.
Does anybody remember what Sean said about what would happen if Adalind was given Diana? Just curious.
(10-29-2017, 10:50 AM)Devegs Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:48 AM)silver Wrote: [ -> ]But what about the part where they're lying in bed and having a clear conversation about what DIDN'T happen?!
The scene ended with Rachel asking them to make another go at it, or something like that.
And in the end, it was never mentioned again, so it's likely Eve was able to wriggle out of that 'commitment'.
(10-29-2017, 10:46 AM)silver Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:42 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:32 AM)Devegs Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:25 AM)silver Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 09:57 AM)Devegs Wrote: [ -> ]I'm actually keeping it simple by going with what was said in the show. She said she slept her. Then says "I was Renard at the time" when Hank throws it back at her. I didn't think too deep about it. Err... she said she did something and didn't deny it when it was referenced.
I don't recall Hank 'throwing it back at her.' Don't remember the conversation. When people say oh I slept with so-and-so, there's nothing specific said, then nothing specific can be proven in a court of 'Devegs' law. It could be very intimate to barely intimate. Eve looked extremely uncomfortable throughout the ordeal - which we only saw them when they were lying there talking. It was clear from the exchange (Rachel and Eve) that NOTHING freaking happened because of Eve's extreme discomfort. I wish I knew what motivated you to make these kinds of judgment calls.
No judgement call there Silver. She said she slept with her. I didn't make up those words. It's in the script. Hank also mentioned it in S6 and her response was "I was Renard at the time". I wasn't there in the room with those fictional characters through the night to know what happened afterwards or during the 'action'. I'll take the character's word for it; that she did something to make her think that she slept with Rachel. In the 'court of Devegs' law, I still don't label her for those actions.
I'm also taking Eve at her word that she did what does said she did.
Well...so far, that only says what about 'sleeping' with Rachel? What does it mean really happened in your assessment? Did they do a bunch of foreplay or just kissing a little or what? What level of intimacy did Eve go through before they gave up? That's the part I'm wanting to understand.
as far as I am concerned they had sex. Eve told Nick she "slept" with Rachel with the impression that sex took place. What kind of sex they had, was clearly unimpressive because 1, Eve was uncomfortable, she initially couldn't get it up but Rachel said they would try again and I believe they did to explain Eve's words to Nick later. 2, Rachel was clearly unimpressed because it was Eve and not really Renard she had sex with so the sex was disappointing to explain Rachel's comment to the real Renard.
(10-29-2017, 11:09 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:46 AM)silver Wrote: [ -> ]Well...so far, that only says what about 'sleeping' with Rachel? What does it mean really happened in your assessment? Did they do a bunch of foreplay or just kissing a little or what? What level of intimacy did Eve go through before they gave up? That's the part I'm wanting to understand.
as far as I am concerned they had sex. Eve told Nick she "slept" with Rachel with the impression that sex took place. What kind of sex they had, was clearly unimpressive because 1, Eve was uncomfortable, she initially couldn't get it up but Rachel said they would try again and I believe they did to explain Eve's words to Nick later. 2, Rachel was clearly unimpressed because it was Eve and not really Renard she had sex with so the sex was disappointing to explain Rachel's comment to the real Renard.
I'm agreeing with you on this one Rp. Afterwards, Eve referenced what happened that night and says "I slept with her". She seemed to spit out the words to Nick. So I agree that she didn't like what she did but she had done it anyway i.e had sex with Rachel whatever way they had achieved the act.
(10-29-2017, 11:08 AM)silver Wrote: [ -> ]And in the end, it was never mentioned again, so it's likely Eve was able to wriggle out of that 'commitment'.
Didn't seem like she wiggled out of it based on her own words. She took one for the team!
(10-29-2017, 10:49 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]Henrettia a far more skillful hexenbiest than Adalind said what happened to Juliette had never happend before so how would Adalind know ,sliver ?
All these goings on should've been handled a lot better by the writers. Especially the intricacies of hexenbiest ways. I noticed that when Adalind and Nick and Kelly were living in the 'fome', and in talking to Eve, cautioning her about doing certain things, it is in sharp contrast to Adalind just throwing caution to the wind when she was on her own and marching to a different drum - not giving a rat's arse about what it may do and I have NO DOUBT she knew horrible potential 'side effects' were possible and even probable. I'm saying before she settled down, she acted brashly and like the 'amateur' her mother called her when Nick took her hex away.
(10-29-2017, 11:08 AM)silver Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:59 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:29 AM)silver Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:25 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]I think they slept together and if they did what she did with Rachel is no worse or better than what Adalind did with Nick their both equally wrong.
You never cease to amaze, Henry. Adalind had hex powers that she HAD TO KNOW very well may affect Nick and/or Juliette. Eve went in, with only the intent to get information - not separate Nick's Grimm power (THE key part of himself and his persona). Nothing Eve did caused anybody's death or immense changes to the persons involved, nor did she try to.
Adalind did know what having sex with Nick would do, that was the point because she was lead to believe that by carrying out the task, she would finally get to see her daughter. When Eve realised how intimate the relationship with Rachel was, she adjusted primary plans, what she was willing to do herself that night to accomplish her mission. None of the two women personally wanted to have sex with their targets (neither woke up that morning with a desire to have sex with their enemy just for kicks) but it was necessary if they would be successful in their personal mission. For Adalind, that was to finally see Diana for the first time since the day she was kidnapped an instruction she got from Viktor, so that in itself wasn't her intention either, for Eve, it was to discover what BC's plans were for/with Renard. How the two women carried out their mission shouldn't add or take away from what they intention was at the end of the day/night. Not once was Adalind acting out of selfish interest that day. She was acting out of a mother's desperation. When she left Nick's place she wasn't thrilled over what she'd done. She flew straight to Vienna to the man she believed had her daughter and instead of getting what she'd hopped for following his instructions, he threw her into a dungeon that warped her senses and abilities to punish her.
As I said earlier Nick and sadly Juliette reaped the consequences of stealing Diana away from her mother. Everything that happened stems from that one decision to separate mother and daughter without thinking of the consequences. Viktor took advantage of the truth and manipulated Adalind to punish Nick for succeeding where he had failed.
Does anybody remember what Sean said about what would happen if Adalind was given Diana? Just curious.
Nick didn't think Adalind would make a good mother. I'm not sure what Kelly believed just before she landed in Portland before they had to change course but it's apparent learning about Adalind's past with Nick influenced her decision, which influenced Sean's decision to agree to the kidnapping because suddenly they all believed Adalind would make a terrible mother to an all powerful child.
(10-29-2017, 11:14 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:59 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:29 AM)silver Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:25 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]I think they slept together and if they did what she did with Rachel is no worse or better than what Adalind did with Nick their both equally wrong.
You never cease to amaze, Henry. Adalind had hex powers that she HAD TO KNOW very well may affect Nick and/or Juliette. Eve went in, with only the intent to get information - not separate Nick's Grimm power (THE key part of himself and his persona). Nothing Eve did caused anybody's death or immense changes to the persons involved, nor did she try to.
Adalind did know what having sex with Nick would do, that was the point because she was lead to believe that by carrying out the task, she would finally get to see her daughter. When Eve realised how intimate the relationship with Rachel was, she adjusted primary plans, what she was willing to do herself that night to accomplish her mission. None of the two women personally wanted to have sex with their targets (neither woke up that morning with a desire to have sex with their enemy just for kicks) but it was necessary if they would be successful in their personal mission. For Adalind, that was to finally see Diana for the first time since the day she was kidnapped an instruction she got from Viktor, so that in itself wasn't her intention either, for Eve, it was to discover what BC's plans were for/with Renard. How the two women carried out their mission shouldn't add or take away from what they intention was at the end of the day/night. Not once was Adalind acting out of selfish interest that day. She was acting out of a mother's desperation. When she left Nick's place she wasn't thrilled over what she'd done. She flew straight to Vienna to the man she believed had her daughter and instead of getting what she'd hopped for following his instructions, he threw her into a dungeon that warped her senses and abilities to punish her.
As I said earlier Nick and sadly Juliette reaped the consequences of stealing Diana away from her mother. Everything that happened stems from that one decision to separate mother and daughter without thinking of the consequences. Viktor took advantage of the truth and manipulated Adalind to punish Nick for succeeding where he had failed.
I know she knew what would happen to Nick ,I was just saying she had no idea that in order to get nicks Grimm back Juliette would have to become a hexenbiest. Juliette was just collateral damage that's just the very sad truth.
I was replying to @Silver's comment. The response always goes to all posters quoted regardless of who is directly responded to.
(10-29-2017, 11:16 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 11:08 AM)silver Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:59 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:29 AM)silver Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:25 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]I think they slept together and if they did what she did with Rachel is no worse or better than what Adalind did with Nick their both equally wrong.
You never cease to amaze, Henry. Adalind had hex powers that she HAD TO KNOW very well may affect Nick and/or Juliette. Eve went in, with only the intent to get information - not separate Nick's Grimm power (THE key part of himself and his persona). Nothing Eve did caused anybody's death or immense changes to the persons involved, nor did she try to.
Adalind did know what having sex with Nick would do, that was the point because she was lead to believe that by carrying out the task, she would finally get to see her daughter. When Eve realised how intimate the relationship with Rachel was, she adjusted primary plans, what she was willing to do herself that night to accomplish her mission. None of the two women personally wanted to have sex with their targets (neither woke up that morning with a desire to have sex with their enemy just for kicks) but it was necessary if they would be successful in their personal mission. For Adalind, that was to finally see Diana for the first time since the day she was kidnapped an instruction she got from Viktor, so that in itself wasn't her intention either, for Eve, it was to discover what BC's plans were for/with Renard. How the two women carried out their mission shouldn't add or take away from what they intention was at the end of the day/night. Not once was Adalind acting out of selfish interest that day. She was acting out of a mother's desperation. When she left Nick's place she wasn't thrilled over what she'd done. She flew straight to Vienna to the man she believed had her daughter and instead of getting what she'd hopped for following his instructions, he threw her into a dungeon that warped her senses and abilities to punish her.
As I said earlier Nick and sadly Juliette reaped the consequences of stealing Diana away from her mother. Everything that happened stems from that one decision to separate mother and daughter without thinking of the consequences. Viktor took advantage of the truth and manipulated Adalind to punish Nick for succeeding where he had failed.
Does anybody remember what Sean said about what would happen if Adalind was given Diana? Just curious.
Nick didn't think Adalind would make a good mother. I'm not sure what Kelly believed just before she landed in Portland before they had to change course but it's apparent learning about Adalind's past with Nick influenced her decision, which influenced Sean's decision to agree to the kidnapping because suddenly they all believed Adalind would make a terrible mother to an all powerful child.
That's not the part I'm thinking of - Didn't Sean tell Adalind in his office that the Royals through Viktor, threatened death to Sean, his mother and Adalind if she decided to hold onto Diana and try to raise her? I'm pretty darned sure that had 100% bearing on the decision, plus remember what Kelly said to Nick that Diana's life would have either great potential for good or great potential for evil depending on where and by whom she would be raised.
(10-29-2017, 11:15 AM)silver Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2017, 10:49 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]Henrettia a far more skillful hexenbiest than Adalind said what happened to Juliette had never happend before so how would Adalind know ,sliver ?
All these goings on should've been handled a lot better by the writers. Especially the intricacies of hexenbiest ways. I noticed that when Adalind and Nick and Kelly were living in the 'fome', and in talking to Eve, cautioning her about doing certain things, it is in sharp contrast to Adalind just throwing caution to the wind when she was on her own and marching to a different drum - not giving a rat's arse about what it may do and I have NO DOUBT she knew horrible potential 'side effects' were possible and even probable. I'm saying before she settled down, she acted brashly and like the 'amateur' her mother called her when Nick took her hex away.
motherhood had a "softening" effect on Adalind. Her focus shifted from the "self" to her children first then others. She changed.
Silver, Adalind always struck me as very childish in her behavior just look at the scene in season 1. when she fails to get the key and she returns home crying to her mom and Sean and they throw her away like garbage after all the work she done for them. She is very vulnerable and childish in that scene as her mother throws her out. Your right she did throw caution to the wind a lot of times but it mostly came back to bit her in the ass in the early seasons. I think that attitude had more to do with her being a immature brat than her being a hexenbiest. She was actually at her most vile in season 2 when she was human showing no romorse for what she did to Juliette and planning on selling her baby.