Grimm Forum

(01-08-2016, 02:07 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]I know irukandji doesn’t by it. I also know this theory is not perfect. I can see some holes in it (It is not my fault… you should blame the writers )… that is I just think this theory can be true… but I don’t have enough arguments to convince anyone about it.

Oh, I do blame the writers. Without Juliette and Adalind, this story could have been hashed out so well. Sigh. But back to my theory, because I'm still looking at Juliette being betrayed for her new hexenbiest heritage.

But first to the mansion, the king, Meisner, Diana and Juliette. I believe the helicopter was probably rented in the USA. Taking a helicopter from Austria would not seem like a good idea, in my opinion. Maybe the pilots on this forum can step in here with more information? So let's talk about Meisner. For one thing, is the guy even an American citizen? I have my doubts. Not only that but it makes me wonder how someone like him could worm his way into the super secret ultra organization that hardly no one else knows about. That's Grand Canyon hole number one in my opinion.

Could Meisner really have found a way to be assigned as a helicopter pilot? Again, I don't know how. If I recall correctly, the last we saw of him was in the old country delivering Adalind's baby. Please correct me if I'm wrong. That's the last I remember of him. He could conceivably come to America, but his chances of piloting a helicopter that shuttles VIP's is a remote one.

I like the idea of a fake helicopter company being created with all kinds of fake background. But I do see a hole in this theory as well. In order to do this, this Wall would have had to have known the king was going to rent this particular mansion for this particular time and that he was going to need a helicopter on this particular night. They would also have to know that the king was going to do business with this particular shuttle company. Who knows, the king could have secured contracts with several companies for that particular night in order to cover his tracks.

There's also something else. I do have an issue with the helicopter. While it looks cool, there really is absolutely no point to it. The royals didn't speed away in a helicopter when they had Diana. They took a car.

(01-08-2016, 02:07 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]And How did Meisner convinced the resistance to let him to be the one there?

Great question! The answer I see: We'll probably never find out, even though this would be a huge, huge, huge leap in finding out more about the resistance, how they learned of the king coming to America, etc. But this raises another question in my mind.

I'm assuming for the sake of argument that Meisner is not an American citizen. He's allied with a foreign organization that might be at odds with the American HW. Where do his loyalties lie? Was he killing the king and securing Diana for the resistance or was he killing the king and securing Diana for the Wall?

On a personal note, I'm not a fan of this guy. I thought he was cool delivering Adalind's baby in the forest and helping her escape. On the other hand, as a mercenary, he could have been well paid to do that little thing. He, in my opinion, is more of a slippery character than Renard ever was.

(01-08-2016, 02:07 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]Besides that none of those theory answers irukandji’s question: how Meisner knew about Juliette?

I think HW started to track Juliette when she was in jail. And I think Juliette talked to the king about going back and kill Nick and I think Diana listened the conversation. I think Meisner was expecting that Juliette (the woman who took Diana from Kelly and that was in jail) would be in the helicopter. After killing the king, I think he asked Diana about that woman and Diana should have said what happened. Meisner should have connected some dots.

I am going back to what I read in Grimm wiki about HW. They are an ultra super secret government organization that is so secret very few other government organizations even know they exist.

I could buy your theory if Chavez had shown some intense disbelief about Nick. In other words, she suspected he was a Grimm. But she didn't. She was very, very interested in Trubel. Unfortunately her intent to nab Trubel legally fizzled when Trubel stuck to her story. It's likely that once Trubel left Nick's house, Chavez followed and convinced her somehow to join the Wall.

Here's a plothole big enough to swallow the moon. Trubel's been in one mental institution or maybe it was more than one. I don't know. She's a troubled juvenile who does what she wants and has never tried to turn her life around. She was content to be a transient who murdered at the drop of a hat. Supposedly she's fallen under the radar of this super secret government organization who can find out anything about anyone anywhere and they're so impressed with her they take her in. Why?

Then there's Nick. As I said before the Wall can find out anything about anybody anywhere. Nick has made no secret about being a Grimm after he got his powers back. In fact, I think Nick's a little offended that these people haven't noticed him, but I digress. They still don't take notice. In fact, Chavez acts like he's insane when he barges into her office demanding to know where Trubel is. And this is an interesting contradiction in my opinion. She takes a person in who actually has been in a mental institution, but completely ignores one who acts crazy in her office. She doesn't even have him watched after he leaves. She instead calls Renard and tells him to lean on Nick's ass about his antics.

Now consider Juliette. She's not living with Nick any longer. She's with Renard. She was working as a veterinarian after starting her transformation and I think there is some dialoge somewhere to support that. There's no reason to believe she was not working right up to her incarceration. She wasn't arrested for any weird thing, she assaulted a guy in a bar.

Why would the Wall be interested in her?

(01-08-2016, 02:07 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]Besides that none of those theory answers irukandji’s question: how Meisner knew about Juliette?

I don't think he did. Going back to the king and this private helicopter. There really is no reason for Juliette to be on the helicopter. I do believe the king wanted her on his team, but that doesn't automatically bump her up to being a part of his personal entourage. Since it's the king's decision, Meisner wouldn't know one way or another if Juliette was to be on that helicopter. I think his assignment was rescuing Diana and securing her, which is exactly what he did.

Where exactly was the helicopter going? To Portland International for a flight out? To Puget Sound to rendevouz with a ship? To Seaside or another portside town to get aboard his own private yacht? To another hideout somewhere? This is all part of the moonhole plot line. If we knew where the king was going, it might have been easier to find out what Juliette's place was in all of this.

The way I see it, Juliette had to somehow be betrayed to the Wall, because they weren't taking notice of her any other way. But it isn't only that. She would have had to do something so convincing that they decided to immobilize her and bring her into the organization. Technically speaking, Juliette would have been a grave enemy of the Wall.

Hi Forum,
There are many ideas regarding the 4.22 Cry Havoc about who, why etc.
IMO Chavez and Trubel were communicating. When Trubel came to Portland to help Nick, Chavez knew about it. She also knew Trubel was the Grimm who killed Weston Steward in Nick's house.
So Chavez knows (cell phone call) Trubel is going to Nick's. She shows up and tells the HW thugs to "get her." They break into the house and find Nick, Trubel, Juliette (dead) and Kelly's head. Chavez orders a clean up leaving Nick alone and drugged, but taking Trubel, Juliette's corpse and Kelly's head to the HW headquarters. It is then that they discover Juliette is (was) a Hexenbiest. Likely Trubel told HW about the fight between Hexenette and Nick. If that is the case, then Juliette was not betrayed. The capture of Hexenette (dead) was just coincidence. Why didn't HW just dispose of the body (evidence)?
New Guy

(01-09-2016, 10:05 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2016, 02:07 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]I know irukandji doesn’t by it. I also know this theory is not perfect. I can see some holes in it (It is not my fault… you should blame the writers )… that is I just think this theory can be true… but I don’t have enough arguments to convince anyone about it.

Oh, I do blame the writers. Without Juliette and Adalind, this story could have been hashed out so well. Sigh. But back to my theory, because I'm still looking at Juliette being betrayed for her new hexenbiest heritage.

But first to the mansion, the king, Meisner, Diana and Juliette. I believe the helicopter was probably rented in the USA. Taking a helicopter from Austria would not seem like a good idea, in my opinion. Maybe the pilots on this forum can step in here with more information? So let's talk about Meisner. For one thing, is the guy even an American citizen? I have my doubts. Not only that but it makes me wonder how someone like him could worm his way into the super secret ultra organization that hardly no one else knows about. That's Grand Canyon hole number one in my opinion.

Could Meisner really have found a way to be assigned as a helicopter pilot? Again, I don't know how. If I recall correctly, the last we saw of him was in the old country delivering Adalind's baby. Please correct me if I'm wrong. That's the last I remember of him. He could conceivably come to America, but his chances of piloting a helicopter that shuttles VIP's is a remote one.

I like the idea of a fake helicopter company being created with all kinds of fake background. But I do see a hole in this theory as well. In order to do this, this Wall would have had to have known the king was going to rent this particular mansion for this particular time and that he was going to need a helicopter on this particular night. They would also have to know that the king was going to do business with this particular shuttle company. Who knows, the king could have secured contracts with several companies for that particular night in order to cover his tracks.

There's also something else. I do have an issue with the helicopter. While it looks cool, there really is absolutely no point to it. The royals didn't speed away in a helicopter when they had Diana. They took a car.

(01-08-2016, 02:07 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]And How did Meisner convinced the resistance to let him to be the one there?

Great question! The answer I see: We'll probably never find out, even though this would be a huge, huge, huge leap in finding out more about the resistance, how they learned of the king coming to America, etc. But this raises another question in my mind.

I'm assuming for the sake of argument that Meisner is not an American citizen. He's allied with a foreign organization that might be at odds with the American HW. Where do his loyalties lie? Was he killing the king and securing Diana for the resistance or was he killing the king and securing Diana for the Wall?

On a personal note, I'm not a fan of this guy. I thought he was cool delivering Adalind's baby in the forest and helping her escape. On the other hand, as a mercenary, he could have been well paid to do that little thing. He, in my opinion, is more of a slippery character than Renard ever was.

(01-08-2016, 02:07 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]Besides that none of those theory answers irukandji’s question: how Meisner knew about Juliette?

I think HW started to track Juliette when she was in jail. And I think Juliette talked to the king about going back and kill Nick and I think Diana listened the conversation. I think Meisner was expecting that Juliette (the woman who took Diana from Kelly and that was in jail) would be in the helicopter. After killing the king, I think he asked Diana about that woman and Diana should have said what happened. Meisner should have connected some dots.

I am going back to what I read in Grimm wiki about HW. They are an ultra super secret government organization that is so secret very few other government organizations even know they exist.

I could buy your theory if Chavez had shown some intense disbelief about Nick. In other words, she suspected he was a Grimm. But she didn't. She was very, very interested in Trubel. Unfortunately her intent to nab Trubel legally fizzled when Trubel stuck to her story. It's likely that once Trubel left Nick's house, Chavez followed and convinced her somehow to join the Wall.

Here's a plothole big enough to swallow the moon. Trubel's been in one mental institution or maybe it was more than one. I don't know. She's a troubled juvenile who does what she wants and has never tried to turn her life around. She was content to be a transient who murdered at the drop of a hat. Supposedly she's fallen under the radar of this super secret government organization who can find out anything about anyone anywhere and they're so impressed with her they take her in. Why?

Then there's Nick. As I said before the Wall can find out anything about anybody anywhere. Nick has made no secret about being a Grimm after he got his powers back. In fact, I think Nick's a little offended that these people haven't noticed him, but I digress. They still don't take notice. In fact, Chavez acts like he's insane when he barges into her office demanding to know where Trubel is. And this is an interesting contradiction in my opinion. She takes a person in who actually has been in a mental institution, but completely ignores one who acts crazy in her office. She doesn't even have him watched after he leaves. She instead calls Renard and tells him to lean on Nick's ass about his antics.

Now consider Juliette. She's not living with Nick any longer. She's with Renard. She was working as a veterinarian after starting her transformation and I think there is some dialoge somewhere to support that. There's no reason to believe she was not working right up to her incarceration. She wasn't arrested for any weird thing, she assaulted a guy in a bar.

Why would the Wall be interested in her?

(01-08-2016, 02:07 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]Besides that none of those theory answers irukandji’s question: how Meisner knew about Juliette?

I don't think he did. Going back to the king and this private helicopter. There really is no reason for Juliette to be on the helicopter. I do believe the king wanted her on his team, but that doesn't automatically bump her up to being a part of his personal entourage. Since it's the king's decision, Meisner wouldn't know one way or another if Juliette was to be on that helicopter. I think his assignment was rescuing Diana and securing her, which is exactly what he did.

Where exactly was the helicopter going? To Portland International for a flight out? To Puget Sound to rendevouz with a ship? To Seaside or another portside town to get aboard his own private yacht? To another hideout somewhere? This is all part of the moonhole plot line. If we knew where the king was going, it might have been easier to find out what Juliette's place was in all of this.

The way I see it, Juliette had to somehow be betrayed to the Wall, because they weren't taking notice of her any other way. But it isn't only that. She would have had to do something so convincing that they decided to immobilize her and bring her into the organization. Technically speaking, Juliette would have been a grave enemy of the Wall.

I have same the questions you have about this matter. But I think same of those questions goes against your theory too.

I am not blaming you. The writers didn't a good job in this plot.

Let me explain my point.

Let's suppose Monroe betrayed Juliette to the HW. To begging with, he should have known about them in first time. How would Monroe know about a ultra secret government agency that the government itself doesn't know it exists?

I think Trubel can't be the answer because, as you said, the HW was supposed to be convinced of Juliette value. I don't think Trubel had time enough to convince Chavez.

But let's suppose Monroe found a way got a way to find Chavez and convince her about Juliette. A super secret agency would investigate Monroe to find out if his information wa true. This would lead to Nick.

Monroe would also have to tell Chavez how Juliette was transformed in a hexanbiest because this is the reason why she is so powerful.

The last two affirmations get us to a very possible situation... Chavez would find out Nick is a Grimm and the process of giving him his powers back is the reason why Juliette is a so especial hexanbiest.

But Chavez didn't know about Nick...

Maybe... A possible answer is that Monroe would just say to Chavez that Juliette is powerful and nothing more. But as you said, Chavez would have to be convinced of the importance of Juliette and Monroe (or the other person who betrayed Juliette).
Chavez would find out that both was connected to Nick.

Now having Trubel, Juliette super hexanbiest, and a wesen who betrayed Juliette all connected to Nick... Wouldn't the super secret agency check Nick again?




Here in Brazil we would say something like "we are both in same boat". It means that we are in the situation. In this case, the same plot hole that works against the theory of someone betraying Juliette works against the theory that the HW knew about her by other means.

In either way, how come didn't the HW investigated Juliette? How didn't they connected her to Nick?
Aren't they monitoring wesen all around the world?

(01-09-2016, 02:05 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]I have same the questions you have about this matter. But I think same of those questions goes against your theory too.

I agree. You already brought them up in a previous post. The scoobies have motive, but they can't betray someone to an organization they know nothing about. It's a dead end.

One thing we had talked about earlier was Rosalee contacting the council about Juliette. One other possibility I had thought of was that the council might have been affiliated with the Wall in some way, you know, like allies. The Wall could be watching Juliette then and capture her when the time was right. That blows my thoughts out of the water because the Wall knows about Juliette. There are issues with this as well, troubling ones to say the least. For instance, why isn't the Wall watching Nick's house? Why aren't they secretly clearing innocents out of the neighborhood? Why wouldn't they know about Juliette's liason with the royals? At the very least, why haven't they hacked into the computer and saw the fatal email message to Kelly?

According to the promos for Grimm, humanity is at stake. I'm assuming the Wall is the one who's going to work on the task of keeping humanity safe. So if Chavez's organization was watching Juliette, they gave no consideration to humanity at all.

It's goofy writing to say the least.

Let's make a simple version of my questions...

I can't see why and how someone of the group would imagine that the HW would be interested in a hexanbiest.

Unless someone of the group was already a HW agent.

It would be fun to find out Bud is a HW super secret agent.

But them Chavez would know about Nick...

(01-09-2016, 02:46 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]Let's make a simple version of my questions...

I can't see why and how someone of the group would imagine that the HW would be interested in a hexanbiest.

Unless someone of the group was already a HW agent.

It would be fun to find out Bud is a HW super secret agent.

But them Chavez would know about Nick...

What about Hank? No, that wouldn't make any sense either.

(01-09-2016, 02:41 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-09-2016, 02:05 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]I have same the questions you have about this matter. But I think same of those questions goes against your theory too.

I agree. You already brought them up in a previous post. The scoobies have motive, but they can't betray someone to an organization they know nothing about. It's a dead end.

One thing we had talked about earlier was Rosalee contacting the council about Juliette. One other possibility I had thought of was that the council might have been affiliated with the Wall in some way, you know, like allies. The Wall could be watching Juliette then and capture her when the time was right. That blows my thoughts out of the water because the Wall knows about Juliette. There are issues with this as well, troubling ones to say the least. For instance, why isn't the Wall watching Nick's house? Why aren't they secretly clearing innocents out of the neighborhood? Why wouldn't they know about Juliette's liason with the royals? At the very least, why haven't they hacked into the computer and saw the fatal email message to Kelly?

According to the promos for Grimm, humanity is at stake. I'm assuming the Wall is the one who's going to work on the task of keeping humanity safe. So if Chavez's organization was watching Juliette, they gave no consideration to humanity at all.

It's goofy writing to say the least.

I am asking the same thing. Why didn't the HW stop the royals?

Did they think that getting Juliette was more important?

But if they knew about her, we have all the questions we have already done?

Bad writing....



But... I was thinking...

It didn't look like to me that Chavez was surprised when Nick told her he is a Grimm. As far as I remember, she didn't explained much at the phone when she said she was getting Nick to the meeting. It was like the one in the phone already knew about Nick.

What if Chavez found out Nick while monitoring Juliette?

What if the plan was not only get Juliette and Trubel but also convince Nick to work with them.?

I don't think it closes all the holes. I don't think it works as it should... But it closes some gaps...

What do you think?

(01-09-2016, 03:31 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]I am asking the same thing. Why didn't the HW stop the royals?

Did they think that getting Juliette was more important?

But if they knew about her, we have all the questions we have already done?

Bad writing....



But... I was thinking...

It didn't look like to me that Chavez was surprised when Nick told her he is a Grimm. As far as I remember, she didn't explained much at the phone when she said she was getting Nick to the meeting. It was like the one in the phone already knew about Nick.

What if Chavez found out Nick while monitoring Juliette?

What if the plan was not only get Juliette and Trubel but also convince Nick to work with them.?

I don't think it closes all the holes. I don't think it works as it should... But it closes some gaps...

What do you think?

Well, there are some real moonholes here yet. For one thing, the nagging question of why Hadrian's Wall is monitoring Juliette in the first place. She's done nothing out of the ordinary, so there still has to be something that not only draws their attention to her but convinces them that she needs monitoring.

The second issue is Trubel. She acted as though she didn't know anything about Juliette's transformation. Because it seems she didn't know, how then could she prepare the crossbow to incapacitate Juliette rather than kill her?

The third issue is something that's been discussed previously and never really been resolved. Why did the scoobies send Nick back to his house alone? His mother's head was still in the house. While I have no sympathy for him, this seems really cold and callous on the part of the scoobies. Then there's Juliette. She'd been staying with Renard so why did she return to the house?

The next issue is back to Trubel again. She shot two arrows into Juliette. I know this crossbow weapon is supposed to be this cool Grimm thing. But to me, it makes me laugh whenever these guys use it. It's like going back into the dark ages again. With all of the really cool weapons out there, was that the best they could come up with? A crossbow? Really? This is Hadrian's Wall, not King Arthur. Although if you've seen the movie, that handsome Clive Owen (who plays Arthur) is standing atop Hadrian's Wall. It's about 20 feet tall, all smooth block and cement. Nothing like the real four foot rock wall I saw on the internet.

And here's something else I was thinking of. Was Trubel really that skilled in crossbow use to know exactly where to hit Juliette? It sure didn't look that way to me.

Then there's the whole Chavez and her team charging into the house to take Juliette and 'the Head', then clean up the place as if nothing ever happened. I also assume her team was responsible for the 'home invasion' stories to explain the neighbors' deaths as well. But this also raises other questions in my mind. Chavez had an exemplary record with the FBI, according to Nick's research. There was no indication of mysterious deaths or unsolved cases.

That makes her different from our friendly neighborhood Grimm, Nick, who stops at nothing to make sure his wesen gets dead, whether necessary or not. So if Chavez was monitoring Juliette so closely why the unnecessary deaths? Even Kelly could have been spared. Did the FBI botch the whole operation? Were they supposed to be on the scene to intervene and flubbed it?

Or is it just like Nick? She took the view that people had to die in order to nab Juliette and so all her team needs to do is tidy everything up and pretend nothing happened but a few home invasions.

(01-09-2016, 10:58 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-09-2016, 03:31 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: [ -> ]I am asking the same thing. Why didn't the HW stop the royals?

Did they think that getting Juliette was more important?

But if they knew about her, we have all the questions we have already done?

Bad writing....



But... I was thinking...

It didn't look like to me that Chavez was surprised when Nick told her he is a Grimm. As far as I remember, she didn't explained much at the phone when she said she was getting Nick to the meeting. It was like the one in the phone already knew about Nick.

What if Chavez found out Nick while monitoring Juliette?

What if the plan was not only get Juliette and Trubel but also convince Nick to work with them.?

I don't think it closes all the holes. I don't think it works as it should... But it closes some gaps...

What do you think?

Well, there are some real moonholes here yet. For one thing, the nagging question of why Hadrian's Wall is monitoring Juliette in the first place. She's done nothing out of the ordinary, so there still has to be something that not only draws their attention to her but convinces them that she needs monitoring.

The second issue is Trubel. She acted as though she didn't know anything about Juliette's transformation. Because it seems she didn't know, how then could she prepare the crossbow to incapacitate Juliette rather than kill her?

The third issue is something that's been discussed previously and never really been resolved. Why did the scoobies send Nick back to his house alone? His mother's head was still in the house. While I have no sympathy for him, this seems really cold and callous on the part of the scoobies. Then there's Juliette. She'd been staying with Renard so why did she return to the house?

The next issue is back to Trubel again. She shot two arrows into Juliette. I know this crossbow weapon is supposed to be this cool Grimm thing. But to me, it makes me laugh whenever these guys use it. It's like going back into the dark ages again. With all of the really cool weapons out there, was that the best they could come up with? A crossbow? Really? This is Hadrian's Wall, not King Arthur. Although if you've seen the movie, that handsome Clive Owen (who plays Arthur) is standing atop Hadrian's Wall. It's about 20 feet tall, all smooth block and cement. Nothing like the real four foot rock wall I saw on the internet.

And here's something else I was thinking of. Was Trubel really that skilled in crossbow use to know exactly where to hit Juliette? It sure didn't look that way to me.

Then there's the whole Chavez and her team charging into the house to take Juliette and 'the Head', then clean up the place as if nothing ever happened. I also assume her team was responsible for the 'home invasion' stories to explain the neighbors' deaths as well. But this also raises other questions in my mind. Chavez had an exemplary record with the FBI, according to Nick's research. There was no indication of mysterious deaths or unsolved cases.

That makes her different from our friendly neighborhood Grimm, Nick, who stops at nothing to make sure his wesen gets dead, whether necessary or not. So if Chavez was monitoring Juliette so closely why the unnecessary deaths? Even Kelly could have been spared. Did the FBI botch the whole operation? Were they supposed to be on the scene to intervene and flubbed it?

Or is it just like Nick? She took the view that people had to die in order to nab Juliette and so all her team needs to do is tidy everything up and pretend nothing happened but a few home invasions.

Let me get involved in this thread again. I'm going to come at this from a different angle. When Chavez first shows up in 4-1 she see what looks like a Grimm kill, so now she wants to know who is the Grimm she tests Nick NO she test Trubel YES. She not looking of Hexenbiests so just doesn't test Juliette and even if she had at the time Juliette is a Hexenbiest nor a Grimm so she would have no interest in Juliette. But we have the start of watch Nick's house, she see Nick the cop take out wesen but she also see Trubel being the Grimm for these acts. Plot is set Trubel will fight, and win so she also a powerful Grimm. Trubel and Josh leave Portland so now Chavez keeps an eye on Nick but isn't tracking him daily, but does follow Trubel and Josh. When they get to PA her or her agents show Trubel the need to join Trubel does.

Now HW has no interest in the royals or the resistance their focus in on BC. In the checks on Nick they find Juliette has moved out watching police reports the pick up the bar fight and Chavez sees a Hexenbiest hand in the fight. I remember after Kenneth gets Juliette out of jail she nevers goes back to Renard's but Chavez see her with Kenneth. For this post when all this is happening Trubel is out of the country on a mission so she is not in the loop, on Juliette.

Monroe calls Trubel likely on a phone Nick gave her so Trubel goes to the shop first but she been to the house and knows something is off telling Nick this they go to his house we know what they find. Now the battle is on to get Kenneth for Kelly and to get Diana. Now at Bud's house Trubel learns that Juliette is Hexenbiest but she doesn't report it because of the planning to take out the Kenneth, it is on the front burner and let add she may have never have reported this because HW would want her killed because she was a Hexenbiest.

The leaders didn't need it report because they knew Juliette was a Hexenbiest the question never came up to tell Trubel because at this time she working kind off the books. Chavez still thinks that Nick needs Trubel Grimm power for the attack on the royals. Viktor has told the resistance when the King was and why so now Meisner and HW pilot (helicopter pilots seat on the right side) Meisner is just in the left seat not flying. Meisner reports on Diana HW has the chance to get a young maybe powerful Hexenbiest they can train. Meisner has been given a picture of Juliette his talks with Chavez look to be friendly as if they have had connect in the pasted, so I put him high up the HW food chain more so than Trubel. His HW may go back years with in both the resistance and knowledge of the royals. Just a note we haven't seen it yet but he may be a Grimm also, and he could have a key. The helipad looked to well lighted so he see Juliette leave Diana with the King and leave.

Now just a guess here but I think a good one the King hasn't heard from Kenneth (he could care less what happened but he can't let a royal be killed his honor is in play) so the King sent Juliette back to take out Nick and he knows he is a Grimm something HW still doesn't.

Meisner after killing the King called Chavez and tells her Juliette isn't on the chopper and he heard the King tell her to take out Nick. HW had nothing to do with the the other people around Nick getting killed I would guess at the time they were working on the helicopter plan and were wherever they landed the helicopter to pick up LBB. The scooby's feel Nick needs some alone time this I will give you poor writing on this point, but they had to get Nick to the house alone for the ending.

We don't see Trubel after the Bud's house so we guess Chavez warns her the King ordered Nick's death. So Trubel heads to Nick was likely to go there anyway but now she takes the crossbow. She now does knows Juliette is a Hexenbiest so she not planning hand to hand, and she doesn't have a gun. When Chavez shows up and says get her we think Trubel but could be Juliette that now is open question. When they go into Nick's house the find a dead Juliette and head so Trubel can't be linked to that so they take it all. Note I said dead Juliette the Hexenbiest Eve saves the body.

Who betrayed Juliette would be Kenneth and the King, and in one way Juliette herself with the bar fight. They wanted a tool to get Diana that worked so now if she lives the fight with Nick good if not ok also.

js, your post is a good one, interesting but I see holes in it just like in ours.

The point of the whole story arc with Chavez was to show that Nick just dodged a bullet. He didn't want Chavez finding out he was a Grimm and she didn't. Chavez's suspicions were on Trubel, not Nick.
I think Chavez probably did have the house monitored for as long as Trubel remained there.

Once Trubel left, so did the FBI. There would be no need for Chavez to continue watching Nick or Juliette. Nick was cleared and according to your own post, Juliette was never tested. It would have been a waste in futility. Chavez wanted Trubel. When Trubel left Nick's house it's likely Chavez had her followed to her final destination so the Wall could work on recruiting her. The Wall is a super secret government organization so it makes sense to go after Trubel when she's away from Nick and Juliette.

So the way I see it, we're back to square one. In order for the Wall to take such an interest in Juliette, someone had to report her to them and that someone had to have such influence that they couldn't ignore the information.