(01-26-2019, 08:58 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2019, 02:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]but I’m saying she was jointly responsible for Adalind taking Nick's powers – just like Nick and the others.
Adalind never took Nick's powers away out of revenge. Viktor led her to believe he had Diana and told her to remove Nick's powers.
Juliette was not responsible for Adalind taking Nick's powers any more than Monroe, Rosalee, or even Kelly. Adalind did that for an entirely different reason. I know this because I thought the very same thing, but several posters came in to explain the reason behind Adalind taking Nick's powers.
I didn't say anything about Adalind taking Nicks powers out of revenge. She thought the royals had Diana and followed Viktor's instructions to get her back. I said Juliette played a part in the kidnapping which led to to Nick losing his powers and then Juliette becoming an evil Hexenbiest.
(01-26-2019, 12:21 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2019, 08:58 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2019, 02:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]but I’m saying she was jointly responsible for Adalind taking Nick's powers – just like Nick and the others.
Adalind never took Nick's powers away out of revenge. Viktor led her to believe he had Diana and told her to remove Nick's powers.
Juliette was not responsible for Adalind taking Nick's powers any more than Monroe, Rosalee, or even Kelly. Adalind did that for an entirely different reason. I know this because I thought the very same thing, but several posters came in to explain the reason behind Adalind taking Nick's powers.
I didn't say anything about Adalind taking Nicks powers out of revenge. She thought the royals had Diana and followed Viktor's instructions to get her back. I said Juliette played a part in the kidnapping which led to to Nick losing his powers and then Juliette becoming an evil Hexenbiest.
The scoobies can blame the royals for taking the baby all they want, but if Viktor denies it, then Adalind knows they lied. Viktor did not deny it, but instead made Adalind believe he had Diana. In order for her to see Diana, she had to remove Nick's powers. You keep trying to blame the scoobies for Nick losing his powers. It wasn't the scoobies. It was Viktor.
(01-26-2019, 12:33 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2019, 12:21 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2019, 08:58 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2019, 02:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote: [ -> ]but I’m saying she was jointly responsible for Adalind taking Nick's powers – just like Nick and the others.
Adalind never took Nick's powers away out of revenge. Viktor led her to believe he had Diana and told her to remove Nick's powers.
Juliette was not responsible for Adalind taking Nick's powers any more than Monroe, Rosalee, or even Kelly. Adalind did that for an entirely different reason. I know this because I thought the very same thing, but several posters came in to explain the reason behind Adalind taking Nick's powers.
I didn't say anything about Adalind taking Nicks powers out of revenge. She thought the royals had Diana and followed Viktor's instructions to get her back. I said Juliette played a part in the kidnapping which led to to Nick losing his powers and then Juliette becoming an evil Hexenbiest.
The scoobies can blame the royals for taking the baby all they want, but if Viktor denies it, then Adalind knows they lied. Viktor did not deny it, but instead made Adalind believe he had Diana. In order for her to see Diana, she had to remove Nick's powers. You keep trying to blame the scoobies for Nick losing his powers. It wasn't the scoobies. It was Viktor.
Viktor could only tell Adalind that lie because of the lie the scoobies initially told her. Viktor made her believe it because they already made her believe it. They didn't foresee what would happen so they're not fully responsible while Viktor is getting a pass but they do share in it. Not as much as Viktor but they do need to reflect on what they did by kidnapping Diana and lying to her mother about it.
This is reflected in the series because of what Rosalee said after she visited Juliette in prison. She said that Juliette was paying the price for them taking Diana away from Adalind.
This is just a listing of what happened. It doesn't equate to the characters being heavily criticized because they had very understandable reasons for doing what they did. This in no way absolves Viktor.
(01-26-2019, 03:20 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]Viktor could only tell Adalind that lie because of the lie the scoobies initially told her. Viktor made her believe it because they already made her believe it. They didn't foresee what would happen so they're not fully responsible while Viktor is getting a pass but they do share in it. Not as much as Viktor but they do need to reflect on what they did by kidnapping Diana and lying to her mother about it.
This is reflected in the series because of what Rosalee said after she visited Juliette in prison. She said that Juliette was paying the price for them taking Diana away from Adalind.
This is just a listing of what happened. It doesn't equate to the characters being heavily criticized because they had very understandable reasons for doing what they did. This in no way absolves Viktor.
If the argument is being made that all of the characters are responsible for Adalind taking Nick's powers, why is it that none of them come to the realization that they are at fault?
(01-26-2019, 06:49 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2019, 03:20 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]Viktor could only tell Adalind that lie because of the lie the scoobies initially told her. Viktor made her believe it because they already made her believe it. They didn't foresee what would happen so they're not fully responsible while Viktor is getting a pass but they do share in it. Not as much as Viktor but they do need to reflect on what they did by kidnapping Diana and lying to her mother about it.
This is reflected in the series because of what Rosalee said after she visited Juliette in prison. She said that Juliette was paying the price for them taking Diana away from Adalind.
This is just a listing of what happened. It doesn't equate to the characters being heavily criticized because they had very understandable reasons for doing what they did. This in no way absolves Viktor.
If the argument is being made that all of the characters are responsible for Adalind taking Nick's powers, why is it that none of them come to the realization that they are at fault?
I thought that's what Nick did when Adalind said she did what she did to him because he helped take her child. He didn't verbalize it but he did appear to have a guilty look on his face and didn't challenge her on that point.
I already mentioned Rosalee but there was also the scene in the very next episode with her and Adalind at the shop. Adalind could tell Rosalee didn't trust her but she told her that she trusted her when she was staying at her house with Diana. Rosalee reponded by saying that helping take Diana was a tough decision for everyone involved and thought it was for the best but she wasn't flippant about it. She seemed to be contrite.
If you want exact quotes of them saying they're at fault for Adalind taking Nick's powers you won't find them but there were scenes that alluded to it with Nick and Rosalee. I can't say the same for the rest of them.
(01-26-2019, 03:20 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]This is reflected in the series because of what Rosalee said after she visited Juliette in prison. She said that Juliette was paying the price for them taking Diana away from Adalind.
HR, I don't always agree with you on some subjects but talk about hitting the nail on the head with your comment listed above. Too bad to SOME, it is not as obvious as it is to you, me and many more viewers, of what you just posted. Again, makes one ask, WTF were "SOME" watching?
(01-26-2019, 07:03 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]If you want exact quotes of them saying they're at fault for Adalind taking Nick's powers you won't find them but there were scenes that alluded to it with Nick and Rosalee. I can't say the same for the rest of them.
Nick was pissed that his powers were taken away from him. He said so to Monroe. Those are not the words of a man who feels he's at fault for Adalind taking his powers.
When Juliette became a hexenbiest, one of the first things Nick said to her was that it was his fault. He never said it was "their fault" because Adalind took away his powers.
Rosalee said Juliette was paying the price for them taking Diana away from Adalind. She never once said it was their fault Adalind took Nick's powers from him.
You can talk about allusion all you want, but it makes no sense that the characters are quite vocal on some issues, but "hint" at others.
(01-26-2019, 07:58 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2019, 07:03 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]If you want exact quotes of them saying they're at fault for Adalind taking Nick's powers you won't find them but there were scenes that alluded to it with Nick and Rosalee. I can't say the same for the rest of them.
Nick was pissed that his powers were taken away from him. He said so to Monroe. Those are not the words of a man who feels he's at fault for Adalind taking his powers.
When Juliette became a hexenbiest, one of the first things Nick said to her was that it was his fault. He never said it was "their fault" because Adalind took away his powers.
Rosalee said Juliette was paying the price for them taking Diana away from Adalind. She never once said it was their fault Adalind took Nick's powers from him.
You can talk about allusion all you want, but it makes no sense that the characters are quite vocal on some issues, but "hint" at others.
It's not as easy for them to vocally admit fault for what Adalind did as their enemy as it is for Juliette who was a friend and a loved one. Juliette hadn't yet done anything to them and they were actively trying to make amends to her so it's very different.
All of this happened at the end of season 4 so their relationships with the two would have them admit fault directly to Juliette much more easily than they would to Adalind. Yet, Nick and Rosalee still couldn't hide their guilt/acknowledgement when Adalind called them out on the part they played in this situation.
I also get the feeling that the audience wasn't supposed to ignore when Adalind said this to them and their reactions towards it. They both begin to avoid eye contact with her after she says it.
(01-26-2019, 09:05 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]I also get the feeling that the audience wasn't supposed to ignore when Adalind said this to them and their reactions towards it. They both begin to avoid eye contact with her after she says it.
It's one thing for Adalind to take Nick's powers away out of revenge. That, in itself, is a reason, and an understandable one.
But, according to the consensus here, (at least from what I read), she didn't take Nick's powers away for revenge. She took them away *because Viktor told her to* and after doing so, she'd get to see Diana.
That's not an argument that would lead the audience to feel that the scoobies should take blame for Nick losing his powers. It's just the same old treacherous Adalind doing what someone else tells her to do without using the wisdom to seriously consider what she's about to undertake.
I get that the characters might feel bad about taking her baby. I also get that their guilt might be tampered with memories of what Adalind did to Nick and his own. They could simply see this as just one more battle in the war between Nick and Adalind.
My impression was that Rosalee felt some guilt about the taking of Adalind's baby. Just Rosalee.
Nick and the rest of the scoobies might have regretted that it was necessary and that it ended up leading to unexpected consequences coming back on them (taking Diana gave Viktor an opening to direct Adind's actions against Nick, and their encounter with Weston Steward led to Steward shooting Sean and bringing forth Jack the Ripper). But I doubt they ever came to the conclusion that it would have been better to do nothing and just let the Verrat kill Adalind and take the baby.