Grimm Forum

(05-11-2018, 09:46 PM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry, but I don't buy that Adalind was never bad - it's always Sean who will be blamed for her. And I still don't buy the wallflower image of her at the start of season 5 till the end of season 6. Her character just changed too much and that makes me be suspicious. I don't want to make her bad but a person can't change that much.

Tara, Im sorry but thats a fine personal opinion but it’s just delusional when compared with show canon it’s totally against show canon as Adalinds character hasn't even looked like changing back to her evil ways once in the past two seasons. everyone from the show runners to the actors have admitted multiple times she’s changed permanently. What your have written above about you not believing she has changed is just as bad as Juliette haters who cliam she was always evil and never loved Nick and was just using him all the years they were togther, its just beyond ridiculous. Also it’s pretty clear you wouldn’t have a problem accepting Adalinds change if see didn’t end up with Nick your cleary pretty bitter and that’s fine your allowed to be but unfortunately your bitterness doesn’t change show canon.

Below is a Claire coffee interview about Adalinds change and her loyalty to Nick.
Interviewer
Nick and Adalind have quite the history. What would you like to see happen for them?

Claire’s response

I try not to think, “Oh, what would I like to see?’ because it’s so different for me as an actress vs. for Adalind. I think what Adalind would like is to be back with Nick, be happy, and be able to establish a family with him. I think Adalind firmly believes that Nick and company are on the right side, and she wants to be, too. She doesn’t want to go back to her evil roots, and she doesn’t want to be working with Black Claw. So she’d like to be back with them, and so at this point, it’s just figuring out a way to get back there.


What’s really interesting is we didn’t like Adalind in Season 1, but now we’re rooting for her.

Claire - My character’s had such a journey. She had powers, lost powers, gained powers, lost powers. And now she has the powers, doesn’t want what the powers bring along with them, but is using her powers for good.


Tara, also going by your narrative of not believing Adalind and considering Juliette’s rampage in season 4 why should we believe Eve has changed maybe she is just waiting to betray the gang as you claim about Adalind. I don’t believe that’s true but considering and amount of destruction Eve/Juliette has done how exactly by the series end is she any better or worse than Adalind, she’s not.

G&k claim Nick and Adalind are still togther in postshow interview

At the end of the final episode, we get the sense that Nick and Adalind are still together. Is that fair?

JK and DG: Yes, that's fair.

And obviously Monroe and Rosalee had the triplets, and are - hopefully - still together.

JK and DG: Yup.

What happened with some of our other characters? What happened with Renard and Eve and Trubel?

DG: Whatever you think happened to them!

JK: They all reformed a new kind of family, having fought evil together, I think they all came together with the reality that this war, this battle, will continue and they will fight it together.

DG: And whatever you think happened! It's supposed to live on in your mind! You the viewer. But it's quite probably true that they are all out there, fighting the good fight.

Was there ever any discussion or consideration of incorporating them into the epilogue?

DG: No, that would have been too much.

(05-11-2018, 02:14 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-11-2018, 12:18 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think there's any question in anyone's mind here that Juliette's threat to Adalind was not to be taken lightly. However, even though Juliette didn't attack Adalind, it seems most people view even a threat as horrific because of Adalind's unborn baby. Juliette doesn't get off the hook even though Adalind opened her big mouth to Wu, said Juliette should leave, and Juliette left.

Just for comparison purposes, I'll go back to Adalind's treatment of Diana, also unborn at the time. Adalind not only goes overseas to sell her baby, but threatens to abort it if she doesn't get what she wants. Not only that, but she rubs some kind of concoction on her stomach which causes a violent reaction from Diana.

How is all of this horrendous treatment covered up? Well, Adalind kept the baby, doesn't that make her special? According to many here it does. Even the issue that she still got her hexenbiest in the deal is ignored.

I get why those who favor Juliette are outraged at the imbalance between her and Adalind.

That's a very fair point. They both did horrible things and we shouldn't makes excuses for one of them doing something horrible just because the other did. I can see where @Tara is coming from and I have no problem addressing it.

I think Adalind doesn't get brought up all of the time when discussing Juliette is because it's a case by case basis. The current topic is Juliette's actions at the precinct so it makes sense Juliette is going to get bashed. She was clearly in the wrong so it doesn't matter what Adalind did in season 2. That would only be a deflection of what Juliette did in season 4 instead of discussing the matter at hand. Adalind's lack of innocence doesn't make Juliette any less guilty. Adalind was a villain in season 2 but Juliette was clearly the villain towards the end of season. The show was not subtle about it.

I agree with you. The show's intent at that point was to put Juliette on the path to villainy. But Juliette was not a villain at that point.

So let's take it from another angle. As I stated before, it seems to me that at least of few of the posters here voiced a horrific reaction to Juliette threatening Adalind's unborn baby. Juliette advanced toward Adalind, but left when Adalind said she should leave.

You'd think that from the posters' reaction to Juliette's threat, Adalind really and truly wanted this baby. Yet I don't recall any joyous reaction. She took 3 pregnancy tests to convince herself she was pregnant. She never approached Nick once she found out she was pregnant with his kid. She was going to deceive Viktor into believing he was the father, but Kenneth put a stop to that. It was only when Kenneth threw her out that she immediately waddled into the precinct, seeking Nick.

I don't even know if she went to the doctor periodically to make sure the baby was in good health. And finally, what plans did Adalind make in the event that she was going to have to raise this baby herself?

In response, none. Yet, who's hailed as the atrocious one here? None other than Juliette.

(05-11-2018, 11:36 PM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-11-2018, 09:46 PM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry, but I don't buy that Adalind was never bad - it's always Sean who will be blamed for her. And I still don't buy the wallflower image of her at the start of season 5 till the end of season 6. Her character just changed too much and that makes me be suspicious. I don't want to make her bad but a person can't change that much.

Tara, also going by your narrative of not believing Adalind and considering Juliette’s rampage in season 4 why should we believe Eve has changed maybe she is just waiting to betray the gang as you claim about Adalind. I don’t believe that’s true but considering and amount of destruction Eve/Juliette has done how exactly by the series end is she any better or worse than Adalind, she’s not.

Yes, I don't like that "Nadalind" ended up together - and I would have liked to see a return of " Nickliette " but I also don't buy the whole " Eve " thing either - I just can't do it.

(05-12-2018, 12:25 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-11-2018, 02:14 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-11-2018, 12:18 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think there's any question in anyone's mind here that Juliette's threat to Adalind was not to be taken lightly. However, even though Juliette didn't attack Adalind, it seems most people view even a threat as horrific because of Adalind's unborn baby. Juliette doesn't get off the hook even though Adalind opened her big mouth to Wu, said Juliette should leave, and Juliette left.

Just for comparison purposes, I'll go back to Adalind's treatment of Diana, also unborn at the time. Adalind not only goes overseas to sell her baby, but threatens to abort it if she doesn't get what she wants. Not only that, but she rubs some kind of concoction on her stomach which causes a violent reaction from Diana.

How is all of this horrendous treatment covered up? Well, Adalind kept the baby, doesn't that make her special? According to many here it does. Even the issue that she still got her hexenbiest in the deal is ignored.

I get why those who favor Juliette are outraged at the imbalance between her and Adalind.

That's a very fair point. They both did horrible things and we shouldn't makes excuses for one of them doing something horrible just because the other did. I can see where @Tara is coming from and I have no problem addressing it.

I think Adalind doesn't get brought up all of the time when discussing Juliette is because it's a case by case basis. The current topic is Juliette's actions at the precinct so it makes sense Juliette is going to get bashed. She was clearly in the wrong so it doesn't matter what Adalind did in season 2. That would only be a deflection of what Juliette did in season 4 instead of discussing the matter at hand. Adalind's lack of innocence doesn't make Juliette any less guilty. Adalind was a villain in season 2 but Juliette was clearly the villain towards the end of season. The show was not subtle about it.

I agree with you. The show's intent at that point was to put Juliette on the path to villainy. But Juliette was not a villain at that point.

So let's take it from another angle. As I stated before, it seems to me that at least of few of the posters here voiced a horrific reaction to Juliette threatening Adalind's unborn baby. Juliette advanced toward Adalind, but left when Adalind said she should leave.

You'd think that from the posters' reaction to Juliette's threat, Adalind really and truly wanted this baby. Yet I don't recall any joyous reaction. She took 3 pregnancy tests to convince herself she was pregnant. She never approached Nick once she found out she was pregnant with his kid. She was going to deceive Viktor into believing he was the father, but Kenneth put a stop to that. It was only when Kenneth threw her out that she immediately waddled into the precinct, seeking Nick.

I don't even know if she went to the doctor periodically to make sure the baby was in good health. And finally, Adalind herself never made plans for how she was going to care for her baby. She went to see Nick, but there was no guarantee Nick was going to come through for her.

I can't speak for anyone else, but a horrific reaction to an unfulfilled threat seems minor in comparison to Adalind's reaction to her own unborn child.

How exactly did she not want the baby, yes she was shocked and disturbed, who wouldn’t be Nick her enemy had gotten her pregnant and she rushed to find another father, Viktor. But she never once considered getting rid of baby kelly, so for you to claim she didn't want him is totally made up. If she didn't want him she simply could have a aborted him as she threatened to do with Dainia when stefania wasnt playing ball with her in season 2. Also in the scene where she is panicking over being pregnant she says this can’t be happening but she never once says I don’t want this baby not once.

Also in the precient scene she tells she is having a boy ,exact words It's a boy I wanted to know cleary she’s went to the hospital by her own wording. Also when Kenneth informs Adalind he’s telling Juliette the truth and leaves the hotel Adalind is seen rubbing her pregant belly cleary worrying about baby kelly.

I've already had one child taken from me, I'm not losing another.
Even he wouldn't protect his child last time.

The above words are hardly the words of a woman who doesn’t want her baby.

Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk...ode=s04e19

Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk...ode=s04e19

Uhm I know it will be very uncomfortable when I write it that way but still I need do it now: If it had not been for Juliette - that Adalind needed protection, would Nick have ever seen his own son?

I mean, because she was looking for another father for her son, since her plan did not work the way she wanted it to be. After that she reached Nick.

(05-12-2018, 12:57 AM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ]Uhm I know it will be very uncomfortable when I write it that way but still I need do it now: If it had not been for Juliette - that Adalind needed protection, would Nick have ever seen his own son?

I mean, because she was looking for another father for her son, since her plan did not work the way she wanted it to be. After that she reached Nick.

Tara, It’s not that uncomfortable, because your 100 percent correct. Adalind knew the child was Nicks and she wanted to keep the child but it’s pretty obvious she didn’t want Nick to be the father, so it’s reasonable to assume if she hadn’t been forced to reveal the truth Nick may have never known he was a father. Excellent post agree.

(05-12-2018, 12:30 AM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-11-2018, 11:36 PM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-11-2018, 09:46 PM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry, but I don't buy that Adalind was never bad - it's always Sean who will be blamed for her. And I still don't buy the wallflower image of her at the start of season 5 till the end of season 6. Her character just changed too much and that makes me be suspicious. I don't want to make her bad but a person can't change that much.

Tara, also going by your narrative of not believing Adalind and considering Juliette’s rampage in season 4 why should we believe Eve has changed maybe she is just waiting to betray the gang as you claim about Adalind. I don’t believe that’s true but considering and amount of destruction Eve/Juliette has done how exactly by the series end is she any better or worse than Adalind, she’s not.

Yes, I don't like that "Nadalind" ended up together - and I would have liked to see a return of " Nickliette " but I also don't buy the whole " Eve " thing either - I just can't do it.

Tara, the thing with " Nadalind " as well as " Nickliette " is a thing which I can not answer easily. In the beginning I was open for it and I liked it so far. But after that it feelt rushed - at least it's mine opinion. Because Juliette came back and Nick not really trying to figure out what happened to her.

I don't belief in the Eve thing as well.

(05-12-2018, 12:57 AM)Tara Wrote: [ -> ]Uhm I know it will be very uncomfortable when I write it that way but still I need do it now: If it had not been for Juliette - that Adalind needed protection, would Nick have ever seen his own son?

I mean, because she was looking for another father for her son, since her plan did not work the way she wanted it to be. After that she reached Nick.

And the other question is something I have already thought about it too. And I usually like Adalind as character. But that question is a bit daring.

(05-12-2018, 12:43 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]How exactly did she not want the baby, yes she was shocked and disturbed, who wouldn’t be Nick her enemy had gotten her pregnant and she rushed to find another father, Viktor.

Shocked and disturbed? How about stupid? Adalind already had one child. She knows exactly how they're made and what it takes to prevent one from being made.

I don't get how the emotions of shocked and disturbed ever equated with, "Gee I'm so happy to be pregnant and I really want this baby".

And let's talk a bit about that "rushing to find another father, Viktor". I love the way total acts of lying and deceiving one's baby somehow make it okay as long as Adalind finds a father for it.

And wasn't Viktor the one who tortured Adalind? And she's looking to him to be the father of her baby?

(05-12-2018, 12:43 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]But she never once considered getting rid of baby kelly, so for you to claim she didn't want him is totally made up. If she didn't want him she simply could have a aborted him as she threatened to do with Dainia when stefania wasnt playing ball with her in season 2. Also in the scene where she is panicking over being pregnant she says this can’t be happening but she never once says I don’t want this baby not once.

Let's not talk about abortion here because that's not even on the radar. I never said Adalind wanted to abort her baby.

What you're saying is that Adalind "never said I don't want this baby".
Right. She never said, "I don't want this baby". But at the same time you're telling me she never said those words, you're not giving me one iota of proof that she really wanted the baby.

I'll agree with you that she carried the baby to term. I'll agree with you that she was trying to perpetrate a lie by finagling Viktor as the father. But that doesn't proof positive show me that Adalind was joyous over the prospect of being a mother again. You haven't given any proof of Adalind really and truly wanting this baby.

(05-12-2018, 12:43 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]Also in the precient scene she tells she is having a boy ,exact words It's a boy I wanted to know cleary she’s went to the hospital by her own wording.

She doesn't have to go to the hospital to have an ultrasound. These days, all a pregnant woman has to do is find a place who'll do them without a doctor's prescription and have one done. A woman can have as many as she wants. They don't harm the baby.

(05-12-2018, 12:43 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]Also when Kenneth informs Adalind he’s telling Juliette the truth and leaves the hotel Adalind is seen rubbing her pregant belly cleary worrying about baby kelly.

Yes, well, it wasn't too long before that that Adalind came out in a robe in order to hide her pregnancy from Kenneth. That doesn't speak so well of woman who's proud to be having Nick's child.

(05-12-2018, 12:43 AM)Henry of green Wrote: [ -> ]I've already had one child taken from me, I'm not losing another.
Even he wouldn't protect his child last time.

The above words are hardly the words of a woman who doesn’t want her baby.

She said those words. I'm not disagreeing with you. But I know you don't always believe a character's words when there really aren't actions to back them up.

(05-09-2018, 04:36 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]It’s not ridiculous at all, unless you consider the effects Nick has experienced as a result of his wesen encounters ridiculous. I recall Nick being affected by the zombie poison. He murdered a man and if I recall correctly, went after an innocent family as well as attacked Juliette. The second instance of being affected by the wesen world was when the tears of the muse touched Nick. He became instantly obsessed with the muse and because of his obsession, became dangerous. Juliette became a hexenbiest, and as a result, her perceptions and feelings reflected those of a hexenbiest. Being afraid of Nick isn't out of the question at all.

It is considering their life together up to that point, which Juliette would have to disregard to assume Nick would be compelled to kill her. Nick’s closest friends were a Blutbad and Fuchsbau, he had ample opportunity to kill Adalind when they kidnapped her baby, he worked with Renard without having to control a Grimm compulsion to kill the Zauberbiest, and accepted Elizabeth’s help with the reversal spell without having to keep his Grimm compulsion to kill the Hexenbiest in check.

Juliette was emotionally devastated after realizing the spell had made her a Hexenbiest, but the event didn’t render her unable to process rational thought. She was capable of choosing to seek out Renard for advice and scheduling a meeting with Henrietta. Juliette not talking to Nick first was a personal choice, just as Nick deceiving Juliette about being a Grimm was a personal choice. Both choices were selfish, and both choices question the viability of their relationship regardless of Grimm and Hexenbiest interference.

(05-06-2018, 07:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]This suppression potion came from a woman who’s done nothing but irreparable harm to Nick and those he loves. I know the scoobies were involved in kidnapping Diana and so Adalind has some recourse there. However, Juliette and Hank did nothing to Adalind except reveal themselves to be convenient victims.

The ridiculous part of all of this is that Nick would even remotely consider using this suppression potion to begin with. Juliette suffered side effects from the potion Elizabeth concocted and that was based on the mess that Adalind herself created. So he’s going to trust a suppression potion from the same woman?

Juliette’s aggressive condition was not so life threatening that Nick had to act immediately. Furthermore, if Nick was so willing to accept Juliette as a hexenbiest, why wasn't he bothering Adalind for advice on how to accept Juliette's condition, rather than immediately taking the suppression potion as the only alternative?

Adalind’s attack on Hank was spearheaded by Renard. Adalind’s attack on Juliette was the result of Renard throwing her under the bus to strike a deal with Nick. Hank continued to work under Renard’s supervision without issue and Renard was the first person Juliette went to for help when she became a Hexenbiest.

Nick’s truce with Adalind isn’t any more foolish than his truce with Renard. Trusting Adalind to make a potion as promised isn’t any more foolish than him accepting Renard as a trusted ally. Both alliances potentially provided Nick an edge, and the only personal connection for Nick was that the baby might be his.

(05-06-2018, 07:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I didn’t say Henrietta advised Nick to stay away from Juliette while she worked things out. I said I believed that Juliette would come to terms with her hexenbiest and would eventually be someone Nick could deal with.

As for the unborn child, Juliette doesn’t have to speak lovingly or respectfully of it simply because it’s Nick’s kid and unborn. Aside from threats, she didn’t touch a hair on Adalind’s head and there is no proof she was going to. If there was such terror over Juliette’s entry into the precinct, then Nick should have seen to it Adalind was safe, not allow her to stand by and then open her big mouth when Nick had the situation relatively controlled.

I was responding to this statement:

(05-06-2018, 07:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, his wanting to rectify Juliette was very narrow minded. Henrietta told him to stay out of Juliette's way. I believe this to mean that eventually Juliette would come to terms with her hexenbiest and would eventually be someone Nick could deal with.

I interpreted ‘this’ as your belief Juliette would have worked things out for herself had Nick heeded Henrietta’s advice to stay out her way. I responded that Henrietta wasn’t offering Nick helpful relationship advice. She provided him two options for dealing with Juliette - kill her while he still could or stay a safe distance.

(05-06-2018, 07:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Juliette told Nick she was leaving. He didn't try to stop her. I don't know why she'd have to make it perfectly clear to the rest of the scoobies when Nick no doubt filled them in.

As for toying with their lives in the spice shop, there was toying going on from both ends. The fact that four of the scoobies are on hand to witness Juliette taking the potion speaks more of a show of force than anything else. Nick and Hank are armed and Monroe's ready to woge at the slightest provocation.

When Juliette made it clear she liked who she was, it was Nick who replied, "we don't". What were the four of them planning on doing, restraining her and forcing her to drink the potion if she merely stood there and refused?

Juliette leaving Nick at any point is her choice. The issue is how she chose to make her decision clear to Nick and her former friends. She could have just as easily trashed an area of the Spice Shop and warned the group of any further contact. That Juliette chose to demonstrate how easily she could harm or kill them doesn’t speak to a woman who’s tired of friends trying to force a relationship she no longer wants.

Juliette could have answered one of Nick’s numerous calls to inform him she wasn’t going to meet with him and wasn’t interested in whatever concoction he had to ‘help’ her. She didn’t have to go to the Spice Shop to make her decision clear. But really, it wasn’t her decision she was following through on. Juliette was already working with Kenneth when Nick began calling her about the suppressant. She held off returning Nick’s call at Kenneth’s request and went to the Spice Shop at Kenneth’s request, just as she lured Kelly to the house at Kenneth’s request. Juliette followed the same destructive path with Kenneth that Adalind followed with Renard, and both women ultimately suffered the consequences of bad decisions.

Given their antagonistic history, Nick aligning with Adalind was a huge risk. But just as Adalind can’t rationally blame Renard and her mother for her decisions, Juliette can’t blame Nick, their friends, or Kenneth for her decisions. Just as Adalind could have cut ties with Renard and her mother to make a good life for herself, Juliette could have cut ties with Nick and their friends to make a life she could be happy with instead of aligning with Kenneth. Nick was a selfish jerk leaving the house that night and sleeping on the sofa when he returned. But Nick’s ill-fated reaction to Juliette being a Hexenbiest doesn’t hold up as the reason for Juliette’s mad dash to dropping a statue on Adalind, attacking Nick and their friends, aligning with Kenneth, and setting up Kelly. If Adalind’s previous actions established why Nick shouldn’t have trusted her, Juliette’s actions established why he should be equally leery of her. Both women were educated with established careers. And both women allowed their run-amok emotions and behavior to devastate that valuable benefit.

(05-12-2018, 06:57 AM)Robyn Wrote: [ -> ]This suppression potion came from a woman who’s done nothing but irreparable harm to Nick and those he loves. I know the scoobies were involved in kidnapping Diana and so Adalind has some recourse there. However, Juliette and Hank did nothing to Adalind except reveal themselves to be convenient victims.

Nick’s truce with Adalind isn’t any more foolish than his truce with Renard. Trusting Adalind to make a potion as promised isn’t any more foolish than him accepting Renard as a trusted ally. Both alliances potentially provided Nick an edge, and the only personal connection for Nick was that the baby might be his.

So all of this was so that Nick could have oversight of his baby, is that what you're saying?

(05-12-2018, 06:57 AM)Robyn Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-09-2018, 04:36 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]It’s not ridiculous at all, unless you consider the effects Nick has experienced as a result of his wesen encounters ridiculous. I recall Nick being affected by the zombie poison. He murdered a man and if I recall correctly, went after an innocent family as well as attacked Juliette. The second instance of being affected by the wesen world was when the tears of the muse touched Nick. He became instantly obsessed with the muse and because of his obsession, became dangerous. Juliette became a hexenbiest, and as a result, her perceptions and feelings reflected those of a hexenbiest. Being afraid of Nick isn't out of the question at all.

It is considering their life together up to that point, which Juliette would have to disregard to assume Nick would be compelled to kill her. Nick’s closest friends were a Blutbad and Fuchsbau, he had ample opportunity to kill Adalind when they kidnapped her baby, he worked with Renard without having to control a Grimm compulsion to kill the Zauberbiest, and accepted Elizabeth’s help with the reversal spell without having to keep his Grimm compulsion to kill the Hexenbiest in check.

Juliette was emotionally devastated after realizing the spell had made her a Hexenbiest, but the event didn’t render her unable to process rational thought. She was capable of choosing to seek out Renard for advice and scheduling a meeting with Henrietta. Juliette not talking to Nick first was a personal choice, just as Nick deceiving Juliette about being a Grimm was a personal choice. Both choices were selfish, and both choices question the viability of their relationship regardless of Grimm and Hexenbiest interference.

Juliette's reasoning in not telling Nick was not selfish. She was genuinely afraid for her life. I recall the episodes where she was in the house and would woge with no provocation to do so.

Nick also drew his gun and was prepared to fire upon her when he thought she was Adalind. It's obvious Juliette didn't intend on being Adalind at that moment in time. She had no control and Nick could have very easily killed her. She was right in going to Renard to seek out Elizabeth.

(05-12-2018, 06:57 AM)Robyn Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-06-2018, 07:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]I was responding to this statement:
Actually, his wanting to rectify Juliette was very narrow minded. Henrietta told him to stay out of Juliette's way. I believe this to mean that eventually Juliette would come to terms with her hexenbiest and would eventually be someone Nick could deal with.

I interpreted ‘this’ as your belief Juliette would have worked things out for herself had Nick heeded Henrietta’s advice to stay out her way. I responded that Henrietta wasn’t offering Nick helpful relationship advice. She provided him two options for dealing with Juliette - kill her while he still could or stay a safe distance.

This is an argument that's getting nowhere. I think we should just let this one die, lol.

(05-12-2018, 06:57 AM)Robyn Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-06-2018, 07:36 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]Juliette told Nick she was leaving. He didn't try to stop her. I don't know why she'd have to make it perfectly clear to the rest of the scoobies when Nick no doubt filled them in.

As for toying with their lives in the spice shop, there was toying going on from both ends. The fact that four of the scoobies are on hand to witness Juliette taking the potion speaks more of a show of force than anything else. Nick and Hank are armed and Monroe's ready to woge at the slightest provocation.

When Juliette made it clear she liked who she was, it was Nick who replied, "we don't". What were the four of them planning on doing, restraining her and forcing her to drink the potion if she merely stood there and refused?

Juliette leaving Nick at any point is her choice. The issue is how she chose to make her decision clear to Nick and her former friends. She could have just as easily trashed an area of the Spice Shop and warned the group of any further contact. That Juliette chose to demonstrate how easily she could harm or kill them doesn’t speak to a woman who’s tired of friends trying to force a relationship she no longer wants.

Juliette could have answered one of Nick’s numerous calls to inform him she wasn’t going to meet with him and wasn’t interested in whatever concoction he had to ‘help’ her. She didn’t have to go to the Spice Shop to make her decision clear. But really, it wasn’t her decision she was following through on. Juliette was already working with Kenneth when Nick began calling her about the suppressant. She held off returning Nick’s call at Kenneth’s request and went to the Spice Shop at Kenneth’s request, just as she lured Kelly to the house at Kenneth’s request. Juliette followed the same destructive path with Kenneth that Adalind followed with Renard, and both women ultimately suffered the consequences of bad decisions.

Given their antagonistic history, Nick aligning with Adalind was a huge risk. But just as Adalind can’t rationally blame Renard and her mother for her decisions, Juliette can’t blame Nick, their friends, or Kenneth for her decisions. Just as Adalind could have cut ties with Renard and her mother to make a good life for herself, Juliette could have cut ties with Nick and their friends to make a life she could be happy with instead of aligning with Kenneth. Nick was a selfish jerk leaving the house that night and sleeping on the sofa when he returned. But Nick’s ill-fated reaction to Juliette being a Hexenbiest doesn’t hold up as the reason for Juliette’s mad dash to dropping a statue on Adalind, attacking Nick and their friends, aligning with Kenneth, and setting up Kelly. If Adalind’s previous actions established why Nick shouldn’t have trusted her, Juliette’s actions established why he should be equally leery of her. Both women were educated with established careers. And both women allowed their run-amok emotions and behavior to devastate that valuable benefit.

You're saying Juliette's responsible for her actions. I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying Nick knew she was leaving. It wasn't up to Juliette to make sure Rosalee and the rest knew she was leaving. Nick would be the one to tell them.

And in Juliette's defense, we saw how all of the scoobies pulled away from her. Rosalee talked to her about her headaches one day at the house, but what happened to Rosalee's concern for her friend after that? The next interaction we see between Rosalee and Juliette is in prison. And even then, Rosalee continues to rationalize that "they needed Nick to be a grimm" and so, Juliette's side effects are just that. They are Juliette's and no one else's because the important thing is that Nick got his grimm back.

This wasn't a case of all of the scoobies rallying around a fallen comrade to help her get back on her feet. Once Nick deserted her, they all followed. Nick is the lead on the scoobies. They're not going to pick Juliette over him.

As for the spice shop, I'm not disagreeing with your assessment of Juliette. Kenneth took a huge gamble in sending her there, knowing what she might do.

But what happened in the spice shop was not all Juliette's fault. I believe that a certain amount of responsibility also falls with Nick and the scoobies. Nick, Hank, and Monroe never should have been there. Armed as they were, they presented a show of force. There was no way for Juliette to see it otherwise.