(01-14-2018, 07:22 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]And this has what to do with people today who want to turn the US into a "Christian nation..."
Because is was, it has been and will continue to be based on Judaeo/Christian beliefs. Trying to deny it and stamping your feet or jumping up and down won't change the past or the present. as for the future, You would need a complete revamping of the government. Basically, another revolution!
You just got through telling me that the Freemasons who signed the founding documents did NOT endorse one specific Christian god. Which makes perfect sense, since they wrote a Constitution that barred government from doing that.
Again, it has nothing to do with people today who want the US govt to endorse a Christian god, except to explain why the govt is barred from doing what those people want it to.
(12-29-2017, 07:55 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]The question before you is are wesen considered human(made in the image of God) and thus subject to the law of God?
Anyway, getting back to this original question, I would guess that Monroe's Blutbad bible contains the same or similar passage, except that its illustrations all depict God as a Blutbad.
(01-14-2018, 01:17 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (01-13-2018, 01:44 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]Most "religious conversations" I have witnessed came about because someone tried to proselytize to someone else, or to promote some sort of faith-based rule or law. And the people pushing back were actually of different faiths, not avowed atheists or agnostics.
None of these ever happened in any of my workplaces. I do think that most people know better than to proselytize at work.
The reason I brought up the workplace is because most people congregate in the workplace for a good portion of their day. No one's getting up on a table in the lunchroom and preaching to everyone. That would be disturbing the peace. However, some people do become lifelong friends as the result of working together. If one takes their friendship to the next level by trying to recruit the other to their faith, it's not prohibited at work.
But even being out in public, I've never encountered anyone trying to recruit others to their faith or to atheism. I was curious where cdn encounters these people.
Not all these examples are workplace--when working at SSA, people would go to a coworker for help, and she would tell them "first let's pray". My 8 year old son was invited to spend the weekend at another church's mountain camp, I was assured they would not try to convert him. He got there and they tried to pressure him to convert, he started acting like he was putting a voo doo curse on them, they got all scared and avoided him like the plague. Really proud of him.
I went to the school superintendent to settle an issue, was asked which church we went to-I said we hadn't gotten one yet, that sounded okay. RC's in that town had to be careful.
Lest we forget:
Quote:IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
The wording of "God" and "Creator" is singular.
The Constitution mentions religion only in article VI:
Quote:. . .
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
It is the First Amendment that raises so much controversy:
Quote:Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The "establishment" and "free exercise" clauses may come into conflict. Much has been written, such as:
http://www.uscourts.gov/educational-reso...d-religion
https://www.heritage.org/constitution/am...f-religion
We can discuss our opinions, however the SCOTUS gets the final decision.
The religious affiliations of the founders is also well documented:
http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fa...igion.html
N G
(01-14-2018, 03:15 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]You just got through telling me that the Freemasons who signed the founding documents did NOT endorse one specific Christian god. Which makes perfect sense, since they wrote a Constitution that barred government from doing that.
Again, it has nothing to do with people today who want the US govt to endorse a Christian god, except to explain why the govt is barred from doing what those people want it to.
(12-29-2017, 07:55 PM)izzy Wrote: [ -> ]The question before you is are wesen considered human(made in the image of God) and thus subject to the law of God?
Anyway, getting back to this original question, I would guess that Monroe's Blutbad bible contains the same or similar passage, except that its illustrations all depict God as a Blutbad.
I myself, as a Roman Catholic would never push for any government to endorse any one specific religion. Because I know, if a majority of some other religion came in power, they could change it to their liking. Thats what the Constitution was written to protect. The claim you are making is from a few fringe Christians , no where close to any considerable amount to even be crucial.
The point I was trying to make is, Again. this government was founded on a principle of "Freedom of Religion", not "Freedom "FROM" Religion"! which also includes the freedom to be an atheist.
Just like a religion can not be imposed on an atheist, an atheist can not impose their demands on how we should practice our beliefs . The reason why some are getting away from doing so, including on public and government facilities is due to the courts being allowed to legislate instead of the legislative branch of the government doing their job.
The fervent belief that there is no deity is just as much a religious view as any other.
An atheist objecting to his or her taxes being used to promote your or my religion does not in any way impose on our freedoms. The same cannot be said for requiring the atheist (or a Christian, Jew, Muslim or Buddhist) to help pay for the erection of symbols for someone else's religion.
(01-14-2018, 09:51 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]The fervent belief that there is no deity is just as much a religious view as any other.
An atheist objecting to his or her taxes being used to promote your or my religion does not in any way impose on our freedoms. The same cannot be said for requiring the atheist (or a Christian, Jew, Muslim or Buddhist) to help pay for the erection of symbols for someone else's religion.
You mean like Tax money we give to Planned Prenthood paying for abortions?
No tax money going to Planned Parenthood pays for abortions. Congress banned that in 1976.
(01-14-2018, 04:08 PM)eric Wrote: [ -> ]Not all these examples are workplace--when working at SSA, people would go to a coworker for help, and she would tell them "first let's pray".
I don't understand how this isn't a workplace example. I would also like to know more about why people went to this particular co worker and if they were outraged by her advice about prayer.
(01-14-2018, 04:08 PM)eric Wrote: [ -> ]My 8 year old son was invited to spend the weekend at another church's mountain camp, I was assured they would not try to convert him. He got there and they tried to pressure him to convert, he started acting like he was putting a voo doo curse on them, they got all scared and avoided him like the plague. Really proud of him.
I'm not familiar with church mountain camps. What are they and why would they invite persons who are not of their faith?
My son has been to a few retreats during his time in grade and high school. They were all Catholic and only the students were allowed to attend the retreats. Parents were not allowed to attend.
What made you suspicious that the church mountain camp might try to convert your son, eric?
(01-14-2018, 10:07 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: [ -> ]No tax money going to Planned Parenthood pays for abortions. Congress banned that in 1976.
And if you think with all the contributions they get somehow, all that cash can be distinguished on how it is used? I have a bridge I want to sell you.
BTW, I am old enough to remember when Planned Parenthood was started.
They primary mission was to prevent teenage pregnancies. Abortions do not prevent pregnancies, they terminate them.
You should do some homework on some of the founders that conceived Planned Parenthood and look into their actual intent for it's conception. You will be shocked.