(06-14-2019, 09:00 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]I know the final season isn't really worth discussing but I'm surprised nobody has brought it up here. I'll write more later but I gotta say I'm not surprised at all about the lack of quality. I thought this show has been a pile of garbage since season 5. It wasn't any worse than I thought it would be but it's as shame they couldn't exceed my expectations. Bran having "the best story" tells me all I needed to know about this show.
I think I enjoyed season 7 a bit more than you did but season 8 ending was a big disappointment. I did not enjoy watching Daeny turn evil. It reminded me of Juliette but with a twist. The twist was, Jon having the balls to kill her, which Nick never had, to do the same to Juliette. It was an enjoyment, after I had to accept how she turned .
I would have enjoyed to see a spin-off of Arya, my favorite character.
Then watching Jon sent to the Night Watch was ridiculous. Why was there still a Night Watch? The Wildlings were friendlies and allies to the Starks. There was no more Night King to make an army of the dead and the wall was breached permanently. Just too much stuff not making much sense.
Daaeny should have NOT turned evil. With a slightly overlooking of some incest, she should have married her nephew Jon and abdicate the throne to him as the rightful heir to the iron throne.
I am now anticipating how these writers are going to screw up the ending season of another favorite series of mines, remade by the BBC, called Poldark.
P.S. Weird how another similarity of GoT and Grimm sprung about. The actor playing Jon Snow married the actress playing Ygritte. They met on the set. I know DG knew Bitsie before Grimm but they only started dating and got engaged on the Grimm set, just as Kit and Rose met on the set of GoT and got engaged.
I did not like the end of some characters in this series.
Not so few chapters but as urged to finish it said blah blah and end.
I liked the Deadwood finale much better.
(06-14-2019, 09:00 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]Bran having "the best story" tells me all I needed to know about this show.
Laughs. We don't agree on much these days, but I am completely with you on this one.
(06-15-2019, 09:52 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (06-14-2019, 09:00 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]Bran having "the best story" tells me all I needed to know about this show.
Laughs. We don't agree on much these days, but I am completely with you on this one.
If they knew the ending all along, why didn't they build up Bran more and have him actually do something,? Anything? It was painfully obvious that the writers themselves weren't even interested in Bran's story. They left him out of season 5 and barely acknowledged him in the last 3 seasons.
I want to discuss the other characters but I'm stuck on Bran. I could headcanon that he foresaw all of this and didn't intervene so he could become king and try to gain control of Dany's dragon. He had visions of Drogon flying over King's Landing, the exact same shot was used after Dany heard the bells, back in season 4. He also saw the destroyed Red Keep with ash falling in that same sequence. He knew Dany was going to go batshit. Him being an evil mastermind would've been better than what they did.
I might get into how Dany killing a whole city of innocent people and that election made no sense later.
(06-15-2019, 01:17 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]If they knew the ending all along, why didn't they build up Bran more and have him actually do something,? Anything? It was painfully obvious that the writers themselves weren't even interested in Bran's story. They left him out of season 5 and barely acknowledged him in the last 3 seasons.
What, you weren't impressed with the blank eyed soul searching thing? Wasn't that enough to logically make him king of all (except for the North)? Sansa was having none of that. The council laughed at Sam's suggestion of the kingdoms ruling themselves but had no problem with a the Starks ruling the 7 kingdoms.
Brain being made king was actually a stunner for me because I, too, saw nothing in Bran that would lead me to believe he was capable of command over 6 kingdoms.
(06-15-2019, 01:17 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]I want to discuss the other characters but I'm stuck on Bran. I could headcanon that he foresaw all of this and didn't intervene so he could become king and try to gain control of Dany's dragon. He had visions of Drogon flying over King's Landing, the exact same shot was used after Dany heard the bells, back in season 4. He also saw the destroyed Red Keep with ash falling in that same sequence. He knew Dany was going to go batshit. Him being an evil mastermind would've been better than what they did.
I think this goes along the same lines as giving Juliette infinite power from the earth or Diana the golden snowflake of power. It's a cool thing, but then what do they do with a character who is so omnipotent? Even though he can see the future, you can't have him see the future and actually warn the characters of impending danger because he'd be the solution to every problem.
(06-15-2019, 01:17 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]I might get into how Dany killing a whole city of innocent people and that election made no sense later.
Including the 'she's all of the sudden a tyrant' story arc
Dany becoming the "mad queen" could've been an interesting arc. That has been a popular theory for years and I thought the show might go there. I would've liked to see that but they never built her up to it. She went from saving the world in episode 3 to a mass-murdering tyrant bent on world domination just two episodes later. They should've laid the groundwork for that much earlier.
They tried to use her burning people in Essos, such as slaveowners and the dothraki khals that basically wanted to turn her into one, as a sign that she would do that here. The problem is those people were her enemies and active threats to her. She never went after people she knew was innocent, especially women and children. Those were never signs of madness. Arya killed all of the male Freys, including cooking some in pies and feeding them to their father, and nobody ever called her mad.
I knew that it would never be as simple as Dany using her dragons to stop the White Walkers and become queen. I knew she would never get the throne and die years ago. I even had a feeling she would become the bad guy in the end but this was so poorly executed it made me more defensive of her character because they did her so dirty over the last few seasons.
Honestly, a lot of the things in the show feel meaningless. The Night King was stopped at Winterfell and defeated in one episode so the whole White Walker threat felt pointless. Bran's entire arc was about that so he felt meaningless as well. He didn't even do anything of significance in that battle. Jon being Aegon Targaryen amounted to nothing. The Prince that was Promised prophecy meant nothing. Jamie's character got completely destroyed.
I know I'm leaving a bunch out but I'm tired of writing about this mess now. I still have to get to Tyrion and Sansa at least.
The problem I had with the ending is it made no sense political or logically. You end with creating a council of all the realms except Kings Landing which has more people then all the other realms put together. Why would Kings Landing listen to the council. especially with the assassination of the one person they would have listen to if for no other reason then out of fear. with Danny gone what do they have to fear. The show made it clear Kings Landing with the reed keep was not penetrable. Without Danny's dragon they would have never had a chance. The fact that Danny destroyed the Red Keep, they now have a chance to possible be able to control Kings Landing. Yet her doing that now labels her as the mad queen.
It is funny reading all the comments they are all based on how the show portrayed the solution being communication and compromise. And that is the problem I have with the ending. That type of ideology would never work in the world the previous seasons described. In the other cases people reasoned with Danny. The ending they did not even try and reason. They made no argument why. John only stated she shouldn't. The writers should have had Danny presented with the idea of the council, and then have her reject it. Not just take the position that her way would not work. especially after her having success in astopor, and meereeen.
It is the sugar coated ending that I had the most trouble with. All these season it has been about survival of the fittest. All of a sudden it is about communication and compromise. And that is the problem.
(06-16-2019, 09:12 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: [ -> ]She went from saving the world in episode 3 to a mass-murdering tyrant bent on world domination just two episodes later. They should've laid the groundwork for that much earlier.
They were all tyrants. Look at the way they acted at the end. Sam suggests a republic with none of the monarchy crap and they laugh at him. They all know some kind of action needs to be taken, but instead hang onto something that never worked. They just name Bran as king and hope he'll pull it all together, not based on proven wisdom and leadership but because he has such a good story! Right off, the ending showed that was never going to work with the north. Sansa made sure of that. So in the end, they're back to where they were in the beginning. A king who rules six kingdoms and a queen who rules the seventh.
So singling Dany out as a tyrant and acting so appalled by her actions was the total hypocrisy. What did they think the girl was going to do with three dragons in tow? The only thing these people seem to understand is a tyrant.
By the way, one of the most annoying things I found in the ending was Greyworm dictating to the council what should be done with Jon and Tyrion. Really?
(06-17-2019, 01:09 AM)syscrash Wrote: [ -> ]The problem I had with the ending is it made no sense political or logically. You end with creating a council of all the realms except Kings Landing which has more people then all the other realms put together. Why would Kings Landing listen to the council. especially with the assassination of the one person they would have listen to if for no other reason then out of fear. with Danny gone what do they have to fear. The show made it clear Kings Landing with the reed keep was not penetrable. Without Danny's dragon they would have never had a chance. The fact that Danny destroyed the Red Keep, they now have a chance to possible be able to control Kings Landing. Yet her doing that now labels her as the mad queen.
It is funny reading all the comments they are all based on how the show portrayed the solution being communication and compromise. And that is the problem I have with the ending. That type of ideology would never work in the world the previous seasons described. In the other cases people reasoned with Danny. The ending they did not even try and reason. They made no argument why. John only stated she shouldn't. The writers should have had Danny presented with the idea of the council, and then have her reject it. Not just take the position that her way would not work. especially after her having success in astopor, and meereeen.
It is the sugar coated ending that I had the most trouble with. All these season it has been about survival of the fittest. All of a sudden it is about communication and compromise. And that is the problem.
It's weird how Varys and Tyrion kept trying to paint her as mad if she didn't listen to their advice. I could buy that if any of their plans ever worked but they all failed. They were so focused on her not being hated but their strategy would've never gotten her the throne.
It's more frustrating when you think about what Dany initially wanted to do. She didn't want to burn KL. She only wanted to go after the Red Keep. There would've been casualties but it wouldn't have been nearly as devastating as they painted it. Cersei had just blew up the Sept killing thousands, including the queen, the Westeros version of the pope, her relatives, many nobles, and who knows who else. Yet, she was still followed and the people even cheered when Euron walked Ellaria and Tyene through KL. The show kept trying to tell me Dany would be hated of she used her dragons to attack the Red Keep bit that's a hard sell after seeing what Cersei had just done. Cersei had already proven herself to be a mad queen yet she still held her title with no claim whatsoever.
Dany would be queen with all of her dragons and army intact had she just ignored what Varys and Tyrion advised her to do. The true madness was her giving them as many chances as she did. Keep in mind that Tyrion is the brother of the kingslayer and Varys sent assassins after her but she forgave them, took them into her inner circle, and still heeded their advice. She was more forgiving than most monarchs. I know the books have Varys and Tyrion in much different spots so the show deciding to do what they did with them as it relates to Dany only made it more nonsensical as most of their changes have.
As for the council, how is it that Tyrion was the one who basically decided the future of Westeros? He was a prisoner on trial. Half the country hated him for serving Dany and the other half hated him for betraying her. Yet, he was the one running the show, got to decide who would be the new king, and got to be Hand of the King.
On top of all that, Tyrion was an idiot. None of his plans worked and he shares a lot of responsibility for what happened in KL. It seemed like the showrunners banked on his likability to sell that entire farce.
And yeah, the ending was way too saccharine. The country is in ruins and would only get worse based on the way things went down. There would be a lot more fighting on that counsel and they wouldn't be so agreeable with each other.