(10-11-2015, 09:14 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]When Nick lost his Grimm powers, Juliette talked to Monroe and Rosalee, and asked them not to find a cure. Juliette was hoping that they could lead a normal life. Rosalee and Monroe ignore Juliette's request and pursue a cure for Nick anyway.
Nick seems to be in agreement with Juliette's thought of living a normal life, but then later confides to Hank that he really wants to be a Grimm. But, he doesn't tell Juliette. It's only later when Rosalee and Monroe are targeted that Juliette tells Nick he needs to be a Grimm again. Nick makes it look like it's Juliette's decision, and never tells her he really wanted to be a Grimm all along.
Should Nick have confided in Juliette that he really wanted to be a Grimm all along?
Yep. But then he should have known what his own mind was on the subject and he doesn't seem too sure of anything in these scenes. Mostly he wants the responsibility to be someone else's. You begged me to become a Grimm, so whatever happens is now your fault!
When Monroe tells Nick that Juliette wants to go to the trailer Nick pawns the job off on Monroe. Monroe says shouldn't you be the one to take her? On the other hand maybe Monroe should have said to Juliette, shouldn't Nick be the one you ask.
Either way, Nick shifts responsibility on to other people's shoulders. I guess he considers it decision sharing. I call it passing the buck.
(10-11-2015, 09:55 PM)Lin S. Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2015, 09:14 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]When Nick lost his Grimm powers, Juliette talked to Monroe and Rosalee, and asked them not to find a cure. Juliette was hoping that they could lead a normal life. Rosalee and Monroe ignore Juliette's request and pursue a cure for Nick anyway.
Nick seems to be in agreement with Juliette's thought of living a normal life, but then later confides to Hank that he really wants to be a Grimm. But, he doesn't tell Juliette. It's only later when Rosalee and Monroe are targeted that Juliette tells Nick he needs to be a Grimm again. Nick makes it look like it's Juliette's decision, and never tells her he really wanted to be a Grimm all along.
Should Nick have confided in Juliette that he really wanted to be a Grimm all along?
Yep. But then he should have known what his own mind was on the subject and he doesn't seem too sure of anything in these scenes. Mostly he wants the responsibility to be someone else's. You begged me to become a Grimm, so whatever happens is now your fault!
When Monroe tells Nick that Juliette wants to go to the trailer Nick pawns the job off on Monroe. Monroe says shouldn't you be the one to take her? On the other hand maybe Monroe should have said to Juliette, shouldn't Nick be the one you ask.
Either way, Nick shifts responsibility on to other people's shoulders. I guess he considers it decision sharing. I call it passing the buck.
This is only my opinion but just before all this Monroe asks Nick that very question and Monroe also asked Juliette that question. Nick says right now you are on better terms than me and Juliette said no there are things Nick doesn't want me to know. Both of which were true at the time. She was being flooded with Nick memories. Remember the hospital scene where she touched Nick to prove he's real, after see him everywhere.
(10-12-2015, 06:49 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2015, 09:55 PM)Lin S. Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2015, 09:14 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]When Nick lost his Grimm powers, Juliette talked to Monroe and Rosalee, and asked them not to find a cure. Juliette was hoping that they could lead a normal life. Rosalee and Monroe ignore Juliette's request and pursue a cure for Nick anyway.
Nick seems to be in agreement with Juliette's thought of living a normal life, but then later confides to Hank that he really wants to be a Grimm. But, he doesn't tell Juliette. It's only later when Rosalee and Monroe are targeted that Juliette tells Nick he needs to be a Grimm again. Nick makes it look like it's Juliette's decision, and never tells her he really wanted to be a Grimm all along.
Should Nick have confided in Juliette that he really wanted to be a Grimm all along?
Yep. But then he should have known what his own mind was on the subject and he doesn't seem too sure of anything in these scenes. Mostly he wants the responsibility to be someone else's. You begged me to become a Grimm, so whatever happens is now your fault!
When Monroe tells Nick that Juliette wants to go to the trailer Nick pawns the job off on Monroe. Monroe says shouldn't you be the one to take her? On the other hand maybe Monroe should have said to Juliette, shouldn't Nick be the one you ask.
Either way, Nick shifts responsibility on to other people's shoulders. I guess he considers it decision sharing. I call it passing the buck.
This is only my opinion but just before all this Monroe asks Nick that very question and Monroe also asked Juliette that question. Nick says right now you are on better terms than me and Juliette said no there are things Nick doesn't want me to know. Both of which were true at the time. She was being flooded with Nick memories. Remember the hospital scene where she touched Nick to prove he's real, after see him everywhere.
So are you saying that Nick was lying to Juliette?
(10-12-2015, 07:25 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2015, 06:49 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2015, 09:55 PM)Lin S. Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2015, 09:14 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]When Nick lost his Grimm powers, Juliette talked to Monroe and Rosalee, and asked them not to find a cure. Juliette was hoping that they could lead a normal life. Rosalee and Monroe ignore Juliette's request and pursue a cure for Nick anyway.
Nick seems to be in agreement with Juliette's thought of living a normal life, but then later confides to Hank that he really wants to be a Grimm. But, he doesn't tell Juliette. It's only later when Rosalee and Monroe are targeted that Juliette tells Nick he needs to be a Grimm again. Nick makes it look like it's Juliette's decision, and never tells her he really wanted to be a Grimm all along.
Should Nick have confided in Juliette that he really wanted to be a Grimm all along?
Yep. But then he should have known what his own mind was on the subject and he doesn't seem too sure of anything in these scenes. Mostly he wants the responsibility to be someone else's. You begged me to become a Grimm, so whatever happens is now your fault!
When Monroe tells Nick that Juliette wants to go to the trailer Nick pawns the job off on Monroe. Monroe says shouldn't you be the one to take her? On the other hand maybe Monroe should have said to Juliette, shouldn't Nick be the one you ask.
Either way, Nick shifts responsibility on to other people's shoulders. I guess he considers it decision sharing. I call it passing the buck.
This is only my opinion but just before all this Monroe asks Nick that very question and Monroe also asked Juliette that question. Nick says right now you are on better terms than me and Juliette said no there are things Nick doesn't want me to know. Both of which were true at the time. She was being flooded with Nick memories. Remember the hospital scene where she touched Nick to prove he's real, after see him everywhere.
So are you saying that Nick was lying to Juliette?
I don't know which post your were asking, me no Nick wasn't lying remember the one scene where Monroe says Juliette went to the trailer and saw Nick and run out because she was over run by memories coming back, Nick said I better go see her Monroe says no she has had you in her head all day I think she Nicked out. After she seen the old woman who gave her the drink to control the memories things started getting better. That was my point now she wants to figure out what they all have been hiding.
She doesn't yet know what are wesen and Grimms, but wants the truth and doesn't want Nick to stop her. Later when Nick goes back home she tells him she now knows why he couldn't tell her. That was my point Nick wasn't passing the buck to Monroe in that point.
Later after Nick has lost his Grimm he tells Monroe he liked being a Grimm but didn't tell Juliette, in point of fact she tells Nick he needs to be a Grimm again and asks him if he wants it and yes he does. We knew all along that Nick was going to get his Grimm back was just a question of how and time. (We can't have a series Grimm without a Grimm) and the young lady playing Trubel had to return to college. I think a good move on her part to complete college. Just a note on Jacqueline Toboni as a person.
(10-12-2015, 11:44 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2015, 07:25 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2015, 06:49 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2015, 09:55 PM)Lin S. Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2015, 09:14 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ]When Nick lost his Grimm powers, Juliette talked to Monroe and Rosalee, and asked them not to find a cure. Juliette was hoping that they could lead a normal life. Rosalee and Monroe ignore Juliette's request and pursue a cure for Nick anyway.
Nick seems to be in agreement with Juliette's thought of living a normal life, but then later confides to Hank that he really wants to be a Grimm. But, he doesn't tell Juliette. It's only later when Rosalee and Monroe are targeted that Juliette tells Nick he needs to be a Grimm again. Nick makes it look like it's Juliette's decision, and never tells her he really wanted to be a Grimm all along.
Should Nick have confided in Juliette that he really wanted to be a Grimm all along?
Yep. But then he should have known what his own mind was on the subject and he doesn't seem too sure of anything in these scenes. Mostly he wants the responsibility to be someone else's. You begged me to become a Grimm, so whatever happens is now your fault!
When Monroe tells Nick that Juliette wants to go to the trailer Nick pawns the job off on Monroe. Monroe says shouldn't you be the one to take her? On the other hand maybe Monroe should have said to Juliette, shouldn't Nick be the one you ask.
Either way, Nick shifts responsibility on to other people's shoulders. I guess he considers it decision sharing. I call it passing the buck.
This is only my opinion but just before all this Monroe asks Nick that very question and Monroe also asked Juliette that question. Nick says right now you are on better terms than me and Juliette said no there are things Nick doesn't want me to know. Both of which were true at the time. She was being flooded with Nick memories. Remember the hospital scene where she touched Nick to prove he's real, after see him everywhere.
So are you saying that Nick was lying to Juliette?
I don't know which post your were asking, me no Nick wasn't lying remember the one scene where Monroe says Juliette went to the trailer and saw Nick and run out because she was over run by memories coming back, Nick said I better go see her Monroe says no she has had you in her head all day I think she Nicked out. After she seen the old woman who gave her the drink to control the memories things started getting better. That was my point now she wants to figure out what they all have been hiding.
She doesn't yet know what are wesen and Grimms, but wants the truth and doesn't want Nick to stop her. Later when Nick goes back home she tells him she now knows why he couldn't tell her. That was my point Nick wasn't passing the buck to Monroe in that point.
Later after Nick has lost his Grimm he tells Monroe he liked being a Grimm but didn't tell Juliette, in point of fact she tells Nick he needs to be a Grimm again and asks him if he wants it and yes he does. We knew all along that Nick was going to get his Grimm back was just a question of how and time. (We can't have a series Grimm without a Grimm) and the young lady playing Trubel had to return to college. I think a good move on her part to complete college. Just a note on Jacqueline Toboni as a person.
Let me clarify this a bit. Monroe and Rosalee were looking for a way to give Nick back his Grimmness. Juliette tells them to hold off or stop (I can't remember which), but she asks they refrain because since Nick is not a Grimm, it gives her and Nick a chance to live a normal life.
Of course, Monroe and Rosalee ignore her request and decide to continue looking for a cure.
In the meantime, Nick tells Hank he wants to be a Grimm. However, he never confides this to Juliette. Later, when Monroe and Rosalee are attacked for their interwesen marriage, Juliette tells Nick he "needs to be a Grimm again".
Nick never confides to Juliette that he told Hank he wanted to be a Grimm. He kept that from her. so, in essense, he's letting Juliette believe it's her idea for him to become a Grimm again when he always wanted to be a Grimm. He never wanted to be normal.
I think he lied to Juliette.
Hello JS,
I agree with your comments:
"I don't know which post your were asking, me no Nick wasn't lying remember the one scene where Monroe says Juliette went to the trailer and saw Nick and run out because she was over run by memories coming back, Nick said I better go see her Monroe says no she has had you in her head all day I think she Nicked out. After she seen the old woman who gave her the drink to control the memories things started getting better. That was my point now she wants to figure out what they all have been hiding.
She doesn't yet know what are wesen and Grimms, but wants the truth and doesn't want Nick to stop her. Later when Nick goes back home she tells him she now knows why he couldn't tell her. That was my point Nick wasn't passing the buck to Monroe in that point."
It is clear that when Nick took Juliette to the trailer he told her a lot. She lost it and said he needed professional help. Then we had to endure that memory loss. I just recently watched 4.15 - 4.22 and by the time Nick went Zombie Juliette was on board and taking an active part in Scoobie activity.
Nick, Monroe and Rosalee worked together to educate Juliette about Wesen, Grimm and Royal matters. They were straight with her and she joined them.
New Guy
(10-12-2015, 11:58 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2015, 11:44 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2015, 07:25 AM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2015, 06:49 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2015, 09:55 PM)Lin S. Wrote: [ -> ]Yep. But then he should have known what his own mind was on the subject and he doesn't seem too sure of anything in these scenes. Mostly he wants the responsibility to be someone else's. You begged me to become a Grimm, so whatever happens is now your fault!
When Monroe tells Nick that Juliette wants to go to the trailer Nick pawns the job off on Monroe. Monroe says shouldn't you be the one to take her? On the other hand maybe Monroe should have said to Juliette, shouldn't Nick be the one you ask.
Either way, Nick shifts responsibility on to other people's shoulders. I guess he considers it decision sharing. I call it passing the buck.
This is only my opinion but just before all this Monroe asks Nick that very question and Monroe also asked Juliette that question. Nick says right now you are on better terms than me and Juliette said no there are things Nick doesn't want me to know. Both of which were true at the time. She was being flooded with Nick memories. Remember the hospital scene where she touched Nick to prove he's real, after see him everywhere.
So are you saying that Nick was lying to Juliette?
I don't know which post your were asking, me no Nick wasn't lying remember the one scene where Monroe says Juliette went to the trailer and saw Nick and run out because she was over run by memories coming back, Nick said I better go see her Monroe says no she has had you in her head all day I think she Nicked out. After she seen the old woman who gave her the drink to control the memories things started getting better. That was my point now she wants to figure out what they all have been hiding.
She doesn't yet know what are wesen and Grimms, but wants the truth and doesn't want Nick to stop her. Later when Nick goes back home she tells him she now knows why he couldn't tell her. That was my point Nick wasn't passing the buck to Monroe in that point.
Later after Nick has lost his Grimm he tells Monroe he liked being a Grimm but didn't tell Juliette, in point of fact she tells Nick he needs to be a Grimm again and asks him if he wants it and yes he does. We knew all along that Nick was going to get his Grimm back was just a question of how and time. (We can't have a series Grimm without a Grimm) and the young lady playing Trubel had to return to college. I think a good move on her part to complete college. Just a note on Jacqueline Toboni as a person.
Let me clarify this a bit. Monroe and Rosalee were looking for a way to give Nick back his Grimmness. Juliette tells them to hold off or stop (I can't remember which), but she asks they refrain because since Nick is not a Grimm, it gives her and Nick a chance to live a normal life.
Of course, Monroe and Rosalee ignore her request and decide to continue looking for a cure.
In the meantime, Nick tells Hank he wants to be a Grimm. However, he never confides this to Juliette. Later, when Monroe and Rosalee are attacked for their interwesen marriage, Juliette tells Nick he "needs to be a Grimm again".
Nick never confides to Juliette that he told Hank he wanted to be a Grimm. He kept that from her. so, in essense, he's letting Juliette believe it's her idea for him to become a Grimm again when he always wanted to be a Grimm. He never wanted to be normal.
I think he lied to Juliette.
Maybe we can agree that Nick's action are different on different occasions. He hasn't used one strategy or stuck to one point of view stubbornly despite evidence. He's changed his mind as more events have taken place and the problem is looked at from a different perspective.
Telling Juliette he was Grimm after the cat scratch was too soon for her. Even though she asked to be told she couldn't accept the answer. After she experienced the Renard obsession on herself, she was ready now to listen to Nick's explanation. Her mind has changed.
Nick has changed his mind also. He thinks he knows what is the right thing to do. And then when that doesn't work so well he changes his tactic to something else. Maybe he's evolving (which by the way does not mean progress, just adaptation to events).
He may be spiralling downward or upward. But he is moving. He's not consistent, or if you prefer he's not stubborn.
(10-12-2015, 03:02 PM)Lin S. Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe we can agree that Nick's action are different on different occasions. He hasn't used one strategy or stuck to one point of view stubbornly despite evidence. He's changed his mind as more events have taken place and the problem is looked at from a different perspective.
Telling Juliette he was Grimm after the cat scratch was too soon for her. Even though she asked to be told she couldn't accept the answer. After she experienced the Renard obsession on herself, she was ready now to listen to Nick's explanation. Her mind has changed.
Nick has changed his mind also. He thinks he knows what is the right thing to do. And then when that doesn't work so well he changes his tactic to something else. Maybe he's evolving (which by the way does not mean progress, just adaptation to events).
He may be spiralling downward or upward. But he is moving. He's not consistent, or if you prefer he's not stubborn.
Yes, but this was not the point I was making, Lin.
js pointed out specifics where Nick gave Juliette the option to be free, in seasons one, two and three.
I am specifically talking about season 4. What I'm saying here is that Juliette clearly wanted a normal life. Whether Nick is stubborn or not, or is inconsistent had nothing to do with it. This was something she wanted.
For all outward appearances toward Juliette, Nick gives the impression he wants to be normal. But, we have Monroe and Rosalee working on a cure anyway. Why would they do that if Juliette asked them not to? It wouldn't surprise me if Monroe spilled the beans to Nick, and Nick told him and Rosalee to keep searching for a cure. Then we have Nick secretly confiding to Hank that he wants to be a Grimm again.
Juliette clearly wanted a normal life. Nick pretended to go along with her, but really wanted to be a Grimm. He not only kept that truth from her, but Monroe, Rosalee and Hank did as well. Withholding information is just as deceptive as lying.
Was that fair to Juliette? I don't think so.
(10-12-2015, 04:08 PM)irukandji Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2015, 03:02 PM)Lin S. Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe we can agree that Nick's action are different on different occasions. He hasn't used one strategy or stuck to one point of view stubbornly despite evidence. He's changed his mind as more events have taken place and the problem is looked at from a different perspective.
Telling Juliette he was Grimm after the cat scratch was too soon for her. Even though she asked to be told she couldn't accept the answer. After she experienced the Renard obsession on herself, she was ready now to listen to Nick's explanation. Her mind has changed.
Nick has changed his mind also. He thinks he knows what is the right thing to do. And then when that doesn't work so well he changes his tactic to something else. Maybe he's evolving (which by the way does not mean progress, just adaptation to events).
He may be spiralling downward or upward. But he is moving. He's not consistent, or if you prefer he's not stubborn.
Yes, but this was not the point I was making, Lin.
js pointed out specifics where Nick gave Juliette the option to be free, in seasons one, two and three.
I am specifically talking about season 4. What I'm saying here is that Juliette clearly wanted a normal life. Whether Nick is stubborn or not, or is inconsistent had nothing to do with it. This was something she wanted.
For all outward appearances toward Juliette, Nick gives the impression he wants to be normal. But, we have Monroe and Rosalee working on a cure anyway. Why would they do that if Juliette asked them not to? It wouldn't surprise me if Monroe spilled the beans to Nick, and Nick told him and Rosalee to keep searching for a cure. Then we have Nick secretly confiding to Hank that he wants to be a Grimm again.
Juliette clearly wanted a normal life. Nick pretended to go along with her, but really wanted to be a Grimm. He not only kept that truth from her, but Monroe, Rosalee and Hank did as well. Withholding information is just as deceptive as lying.
Was that fair to Juliette? I don't think so.
I see your point but you also have to take into consideration that it wasn't fair for her to expect that of Nick either.
Being a Grimm is a curse but it was also his birthright and over the course of the four seasons it became ingrained into his sense of self, it became a part of him.
Asking him to deny it was something that just couldn't be done because of it.
Juliette loved the idea of Nick but could not accept the Grimm within fully and that, coupled with a lot of bad reactions and emotions on both sides doomed the relationship.
(10-13-2015, 10:14 AM)TieDyeJackson Wrote: [ -> ]I see your point but you also have to take into consideration that it wasn't fair for her to expect that of Nick either.
Being a Grimm is a curse but it was also his birthright and over the course of the four seasons it became ingrained into his sense of self, it became a part of him.
Asking him to deny it was something that just couldn't be done because of it.
Juliette loved the idea of Nick but could not accept the Grimm within fully and that, coupled with a lot of bad reactions and emotions on both sides doomed the relationship.
Juliette didn't demand Nick give up his birthright. There was no birthright to give up. Nick lost it and no one was even close to finding a cure. All Juliette did was try to take their life together in a different direction. And from what we see, Nick gave Juliette the impression that he was ready to take his life a different direction with her.
This wasn't both of them. It was Nick all the way. He made a decision but refused to let Juliette in on it. That wasn't fair to her. It's one thing for Nick to want to be a Grimm again. It's another to deceive the love of his life into believing it's her idea and her idea alone.