(07-08-2015, 08:04 AM)irukandji Wrote:Love doesn't die easily they had a long history no matter what Juliette had done. Yes there was still a hope she'd come back and yes I believe he still loved her. He couldn't kill her even as you said after all that went on in season 4. Now I do believe Nick and her would have never gotten pasted these things but he would and will always love her.(07-08-2015, 06:52 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Nick has a love connection with Juliette and Kelly getting revenge works. Having Sean die a co worker how would you make that a deep personal reason for revenge and change Nick's direction? Love is one of the strongest emotions maybe the strongest. There is no emotional connection with Sean. Nick would be angry but vested in revenge if Sean was killed do you see that?
Do you see a way Sean or Hank or Wu death bring the same darkness that has been said for next season about? I might see Hank's and Kelly's death being the best if you wanted someone other than Juliette to be killed that might push Nick but not Sean. Your ideas?
Does anyone really believe Nick had a love connection with Juliette after all that went on in season 4? Based on what?
07-08-2015, 08:26 AM
(07-08-2015, 08:24 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Love doesn't die easily they had a long history no matter what Juliette had done. Yes there was still a hope she'd come back and yes I believe he still loved her. He couldn't kill her even as you said after all that went on in season 4. Now I do believe Nick and her would never gotten pasted these things but he would and will always love her. He ordered her death, js. Do you really believe he didn't mean it?
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07-08-2015, 08:39 AM
(07-08-2015, 08:26 AM)irukandji Wrote:No he did mean it but back to love the emotion who and how we love doesn't always makes sense. How we fall in or out love doesn't always make sense either. But now we are getting off tiedyejackson thread.(07-08-2015, 08:24 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Love doesn't die easily they had a long history no matter what Juliette had done. Yes there was still a hope she'd come back and yes I believe he still loved her. He couldn't kill her even as you said after all that went on in season 4. Now I do believe Nick and her would never gotten pasted these things but he would and will always love her.
07-08-2015, 09:46 AM
(07-08-2015, 08:39 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: No he did mean it but back to love the emotion who and how we love doesn't always makes sense. How we fall in or out love doesn't always make sense either. But now we are getting off tiedyejackson thread. js, you know as well as I do that people can fall out of love as quickly as they fall in it. The way I see it, Nick fell out of love with Juliette and looked for reasons to avoid her, probably because it was her house and he wanted to continue living there, just not with her. But let's go back to tiedyejackson's comments. Quote:No offence to Juliette fans out there but she's the kind of girl that eventually just dies to make the hero turn another corner in his life. It may sound cruel and cold but secondary characters are just that... secondary. If it means that a whole new world for the main character, people die and circumstances change. I don't agree that Juliette is a secondary character. I also do not agree that her purpose was to die so Nick could turn another corner. What I think tiedyejackson is missing here is that Nick already turned that corner and was heading full blast toward a whole new world. He's dealing with prejudice against Monroe and Rosalee, Sean as Jack the Ripper, Adalind whining about having his baby and Juliette turning into a hexenbiest. If that isn't turning a corner, I don't know what is. Quote:But the way they did it was just bloody brilliant. They gave her more power than she could handle, she went off the deep end and she died for it !!! I for one , was so sick of a good character going bad and then going back to good with little to no repercussions (Willow from BTVS being a perfect example). The long road to redemption gets tired after a while. So to actually have good girl gone bad and have it be the end of her was refreshing to me as a TV geek. I can't speak for anyone else, but I fail to see Juliette sacrificing anything here, save a really interesting character. Her death was not a shock as it was predictable bordering on boring. If this is a plotline for Nick to be morose and sullen during season 5, that's even worse, especially for those who detest Juliette.
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07-08-2015, 10:41 AM
Quote: I don't agree that Juliette is a secondary character. I also do not agree that her purpose was to die so Nick could turn another corner. All the posts are personal opinion. I just found that while integral to Nick's character, she wasn't integral to the show itself. Everyone serves a purpose but Juliette had fallen to the wayside from almost the beginning of the series, she was more of a plot device, again completely IMO. As far as the turning the corner, all the stuff you mentioned is just plot progression, same with the death of his mother, it propels the story forward but Juliette dying shook the foundation of the main character as a whole. A perfect example of this is when Angel became Angelus in BTVS, the whole series morphed into something completely different because of this instance and it was for the betterment of the show. Quote: I can't speak for anyone else, but I fail to see Juliette sacrificing anything here, save a really interesting character. Her death was not a shock as it was predictable bordering on boring. If this is a plot line for Nick to be morose and sullen during season 5, that's even worse, especially for those who detest Juliette. I found it wasn't predictable, I thought they were going to pull something almost Deus Ex Machina like and have her return to the fold as a twist and when those bolts hit her I was literally holding my breath because the fallen hero got what they deserved. Nick is gonna go dark, He was a kinder, gentler Grimm and I think he is going to get brutal for a while and put his predecessors to shame. As far as her sacrifice, her entire run was one huge sacrifice , she willingly went down the rabbit hole and lost herself in the process. Aunt Marie warning Nick to leave Juliette sealed her fate in the pilot.
07-08-2015, 12:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2015, 12:13 PM by Hexenadler.)
I have a soft spot for characters who crawl their way back from the brink of despair and damnation. I want to see how Juliette would rebuild her life and her relationship with Nick after committing such a catastrophic mistake (betraying Kelly to the Royals).
Just to be clear: I DON'T want Juliette to revert back into a human, but I do like the idea of seeing how Juliette could try to keep her evil impulses in check after she's realized the path of the Hexenbiest only leads to loneliness and death.
We all see things differently. I didn't find Juliette a particularly interesting character before her transformation. After was a different story. I wish she would have remained alive because as alive, she would have made Nick turn that corner you're referring to.
I've never doubted Juliette's importance to the story, just like I never doubted Monroe or Rosalee, or Hank. But I see them as all integral to Nick. It's his story. They simply contribute to it. The writers can make Nick as dark and ominous as they want. That's perfectly fine to me. What I would rather not see is some feeble attempt to attribute this all back to some lost love for Juliette. He didn't love her, he made that perfectly obvious when he looked at her and later when he ordered her killed. It'd be much more interesting to me if they made his darkness arise out of hate for her. I've never seen Buffy, so I can't comment on the example cited.
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(07-08-2015, 04:50 AM)irukandji Wrote: I should have phrased this question differently. Juliette wasn't the first character to be killed off during this season. Sean was also killed. Should he have remained dead? If not, why not? One, I not think they ever should have killed Renard the first time, having him shot would have been enough. I really do not like too many fantasy elements in a show.. I am prepared to accept the whole wesen/grimm thin. As mentioned I don't really like the Royal thing, the Chavez, thing, the keys etc. You have more than enough things to flesh out with the basic premise of the series without all this "Lord of the Rings" stuff being thrown in. I prefer when you kill someone that they stay dead. I think killing and bringing Renard back hurt the show. I agree that he is needed and a strong part of the show, so they never should have killed him off in the first place. IMNTBMFHO, there are simply too many moving parts in the show. Maybe that leads to a higher audience number so it is necessary, but I believe it detracts from the quality of the character development. My vote (as if I have one) is when you kill a character off they remain dead. Emotionalize the event, show how it impacts the other characters etc, in that way they sort of live on, but keep the dead, dead. (07-08-2015, 08:39 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: He ordered her death, js. Do you really believe he didn't mean it?No he did mean it but back to love the emotion who and how we love doesn't always makes sense. How we fall in or out love doesn't always make sense either. [/quote] Very astute. : ) |
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