12-09-2018, 11:02 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2018, 11:59 AM by Henry of green.)
(12-09-2018, 10:37 AM)irukandji Wrote: It's obvious to me that you are sensitive about my statement calling your posts a lot of fluff.
You also believe that you somehow have the authority to relegate me to starting another thread about hating Nick. Let's put an end to that right now. You don't.
I went back to the beginning of this thread and found some things that were very interesting.
The title of the thread is "Grimm: Is Nick Going to End Up Alone?"
I assume that means discussing all of Nick's qualities. And in fact, the thread started out that way. I also find it interesting that none of the people had any problems with the position that Nick could end up alone. They welcomed the opposite point of view.
I brought up that Nick could conceivably end up alone because he had such a small following. No derogatory remarks. After all this is a topic that allows posters to discuss why they think Nick is going to end up alone.
There's actually some mature discussion going on about this thread before henry, who in his usual way, wants to start something going by calling my post *utter nonsense*.
So, it's not me who starts these things. I was just trying to keep the thread going.
After some preliminary back and forth about Nick's following and his ability to accumulate new followers *YOU* decide it's time for you to chime in by asking the poignant question:
Quote:Is this an attempt to put Nick in a bad light?
So after some additional discussion about the kids and whether or not they would leave Nick in the end, we then have henry, once again coming up with a way to start trouble:
Quote:Hell Rell, don’t be silly thier clearly all just hanging around Nick for his Grimm Fourtune and his pension then they’ll all clear off soon enough with Nicks trailer in tow leaving Nick on his lonesome.
Some discussion about Nick and his emotional connection to Diana, to which Hell Rell chimes in with:
Quote:Don't forget those delicious pies that Bud's wife makes. And whatever Nick has stashed away from his years of corruption.
Granted, I responded with:
Quote:Yes because arresting someone, making sure he's weaponless and then murdering him really establishes Nick as a hero.
Hell Rell responded with:
Quote:Yeah, because that's the first and only thing we ever see Nick do. Nothing he did for the previous four years, and however many years before he realized he was a Grimm, matters. Neither does what Nick did for the next twenty years.
Besides you may think Nick is a scumbag, which you have a right to even if it's debated constantly, but the rest of the characters don't see him the way you do. They do think he's a hero and never really wavered from that line of thought.
Hell Rell also made this comment:
Quote:Yeah, because that's the first and only thing we ever see Nick do. Nothing he did for the previous four years, and however many years before he realized he was a Grimm, matters. Neither does what Nick did for the next twenty years.
to which I responded:
Quote:No, Nick was corrupt before he murdered Kenneth. He was corrupt after he murdered Kenneth. The thing with Nick is that because he performs a good act here and there, the bad acts, even murder, are overlooked.
Hell Rell responded:
Quote:It wasn't overlooked. Most people on this forum said murdering Kenneth was corrupt. They've also pointed out several of his other flaws.
On another note, you seem to project how you feel about Nick onto the characters. They simply don't view him the way you do and wouldn't abandon them. This discussion started because you said there was a good possibility of him ending up alone due to his small group of friends and that expanded to his morality which the other characters hold in high regard.
I know this is long but here's Hell Rell's response:
Quote:This discussion started because you said there was a good possibility of him ending up alone due to his small group of friends and that expanded to his morality which the other characters hold in high regard.
Now, the reason this expanded to Nick's morality was not because of anything I stated. I didn't start the corrupt cop statement. Hell Rell did. It seems though, that in this particular case, because Hell Rell really, really, really wanted to make a point that was in essence pointless, he brought up the corrupt cop argument.
To which, of course, henry naturally chimed in.
Now back to *YOU*
Here's your statement, which actually starts out on a mature level. But then, look how you end it
Quote:Let me see if I get this right: When answering questions about what happened to the other characters in Grimm, except Nick, Adalind, Kelly, Diana and the triplets, the writers said they didn’t have time to include that in the ending. But you think they should include new friends Nick met in the future, and use their absence as proof that he didn’t have friends? Excuse me while I bang my head against the wall.
I responded, not the most professional, but then I didn't suggest I would join you in a mutual banging the heads against the wall fest.
Your quote:
Quote:I have never seen a crime or superhero series where the detectives or heroes always follows the law. Grimm was about a man who had to balance being a cop with being a Grimm. Nick fights against evil monsters and villains that can only be defeated with untraditional methods. But keep telling yourself that Nick is evil and the villains are heroes.
To which I responded:
Quote:When the hero does exactly the same things the villains in the series do, there's no way he can be the hero.
And then, once again, we have henry chiming in with:
Quote:No if it’s anyone fault it’s Eves she’s the dumbass who went through the Mirror in the first place even though she was told serveral Times it was a bad idea to cross through the Mirror. It was Diana herself who pulled Nick through the Mirror the first time so Nick holds zero blame but since when did the stop you blaming him anyway, Nicks worse than Zerstorer after all in your eyes.
Some discussion about Diana's adoration of Nick.
Then once again *YOU* chime in with:
Quote:Yes, it was clearly Nicks fault, something that had been predicted in a Bible from 1598. Diana also knew about this in advance. But was it really not Eve's fault? I suppose you would have preferred letting Eve stay on “the other side” forever.
s06e12:
Oh, my God, what's today? March 24th.
Oh, my God, that's the day.
That's the day that was predicted that the planets would align and something very bad was gonna happen.
This is why the skull guy went after Eve now, so she would go after him now so Nick would go after her now.
Nick defeated the devil and saved Diana and the whole world. But he is still a villain. Well, some will never be satisfied. I'm sure Diana was forever grateful.
I completely ignored this post. Since henry was actually being mature for a little while, I was debating the back and forth on Eve, Nick and Diana, including the other side.
But then *out of the blue* to coin your own word's henry decides once again to take the debate up a level with this:
Quote:Some posters have Nick can’t do anything right glasses, he’s basically the devil incarnate from thier view, in fact they’d probably rather Zerstorer had won instead.
Also why is Nick so bad, because he killed an evil son of a bitch Royal who had all of Nicks innocent nieghbours slaughtered for basically no good reason. Yet some would have us feel sorry for Kenneth, don’t think so. What Nick did to Kenneth is Legally wrong yes however I doubt the Nieghbours families would think that considering what Kenneth had just done.
Is Nick a saint certainly not but unlike some other selfish characters he doesn’t do it all for personal gain and pure greed.
To which I replied:
Quote:You think because you admire a character everyone else should follow suit.
Note: Nothing about corrupt cops, it was simply a statement of what I believe to be henry's perception.
Then there was this from henry:
Quote:The majority of the main characters on the show also admire Nick, I don’t have a problem with you disliking Nick but I do have a problem with you projecting your dislike of Nick onto characters who clearly admire him. You can think Nick is the antichrist if you wish but that’s not how the other characters seen him.
To which I responded:
Quote:This is rich. You have a problem with me projecting my dislike of Nick onto other characters who clearly admire him.
But here's the real catch 22 to your thread. You have absolutely no problem projecting your dislike of Kenneth onto Nick's neighbors, who we....don't.....even.....know.
And I quote: 'Also why is Nick so bad, because he killed an evil son of a bitch Royal who had all of Nicks innocent nieghbours slaughtered for basically no good reason. Yet some would have us feel sorry for Kenneth, don’t think so. What Nick did to Kenneth is Legally wrong yes however ***I doubt the Nieghbours families would think that considering what Kenneth had just done.****'
More back and forth between henry and I about his statements/my statements and projection.
You decide to chime in once more. And again, I point out your argument is logical and worth debating. Until you add this:
Quote:Why don’t you stop laughing and start paying attention?
Now I responded to this, as I had questions that you chose to ignore.
I won't go further on quotes as this post is long enough.
What I don't get, is, for all of this outrage at me once again disrupting a logical and through debate by calling Nick corrupt, (which I did not do), none of you has any issues with starting trouble and calling him corrupt when it suits your purpose. You're using it sarcastically, but if this is truly something that offends you, none of you would be using it at all.
Your arguments are sound, well put together, and you spell correctly. But when you follow them with statements like those above, it tells me you are not remotely interested in debating because you really have no point to debate. It's a lot of fluff. Rather like henry and as of late, Hell Rell.
I'll concede your point is a fair one. I should have ignored them.
One final word on this so called hatred of Nick (also something that I never stated). You all continue to forget that the vast majority of wesen and even the police themselves despised Nick. And further consider this. Nick helped both the Frog Girl and the Maiden. Those two would have had the perfect opportunity to join his cause. Yet, it wasn't even mentioned, even through a simple statement made by Nick himself.
The majority of cops in the show didn’t despise Nick, that has no basis in the show whatsoever. I seem to recall all the cops screaming and applauding welcoming Nick and Hank back to the precinct in 6x04, I recall Franco’s reluctance to go after Nick even when ordered to do so by his boss Renard.