07-18-2015, 10:21 AM
(07-18-2015, 07:08 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:(07-18-2015, 05:55 AM)New Guy Wrote:Just my 2 cents @New Guy your point and I'm sure that took some very good research on Oregon code of conduct if we were talking an Oregon police story would be correct. Here is were I would disagree can or should we apply correct codes to this series?(07-18-2015, 12:13 AM)izzy Wrote: I just don't see Renard as bad as you are painting him. I think via Monroe, who I think we all agree is a "good guy", we learned the Aunt Marie had less than a sterling reputation. Even on her death bed she was cantankerous and belligerent toward Monroe who was there to assist, demonstrating she labeled people based on stereotypes and made no allowance for the good of an individual, i.e she was about as racist as they come.
I think for Sean to try and get Aunt Marie offed might have been an intelligent reflex action. She did not appear known for her calm demeanor and deliberative skills. Think of it Aunt Marie arrives in Portland and you are wesen, what are you going to think, she is there for a social event?
And as I mentioned in another thread, Renard clearly has his underlings respect, and that is respect given by men and women who every day put their lives on the line based in large part on their ability to assess character. So I would find it a bit incredulous if they were that wrong. In the past I have posted information about some infamous law enforcement characters, I can tell you their juniors knew they had earned less than sterling reputations. Power and politics kept them in office not respect. Renard has the respect of his juniors.
And on the Renard - Juliette thing. It may be a generational thing but the guy code of my day pretty much states a friend twice removed as Renard is to Nick is allowed to poke your girl if she offers it up to him. You are still allowed to be ticked and punch him in the mouth, but men will be men and he is not in the circle of best friends with you, so she is fair game. Also, once again, we have never been privy much to the past of any characters but Monroe and Rosalee. For all we know,prior to Nick, Juliette had a lot of notches on her bed post and I have made the case a couple of times that it is logical to conclude she was slumming when she decided to start seeing Nick. So to a guy who reads women, Juliette may have been considered pretty easy. "We" don't know, because her past was never explored. In the end, Juliette ending in a strong, virile, authoritative man's bed may be very old news.
Anyways on all these points we differ, but, that diversity of opinion is the spice of life.
Hello Izzy,
I appreciate, but disagree with your comments.
The Oregon State Police Code of Ethical Conduct includes:
“The Superintendent acknowledges that the citizens of the State of Oregon rightfully expect and demand that the Oregon State Police epitomize the highest ideals of ethical and professional conduct. As an employee, I subscribe to and adopt the ideals set forth in the Code of Ethical Conduct.
As a peace officer, I am the image of penal law and its warden. If I am to be esteemed and the law I typify respected, I must know my authority well and use it wisely. I shall neither exceed nor abuse it.
During my private and public life, I shall conduct myself with the highest degree of integrity and honesty. I shall at all times conduct myself in a manner which consistently maintains the public trust.”
…
I expect PPD has a similar code of conduct. Renard, Nick, Hank and Wu have all violated ethical precepts. Marie came to Portland to pass along the family heritage to her nephew and then die in peace. Renard calling for the murder of Marie just to manipulate Nick cannot be tolerated even under the Code of Grimm. The writers say Nick will get revenge, so in October we will learn what that means.
…
Nick and Juliette were living together. He had proposed marriage to Juliette. He was emotionally “married” to her and they owed each other complete fidelity. Strong societies are built on marriages where the husband and wife are trustworthy and loyal to each other.
In a 2013 Gallup Poll that listed behaviors and societal realities that included porn, gambling, abortion, polygamy, and the death penalty, 91 percent of survey respondents flagged adultery as morally reprehensible. It drew a higher rate of disapproval than any issue on the survey. Instinctively, we sense that lying to and betraying the one person we’ve sworn fealty to is far worse than simply divorcing that person. Condemnation of divorce has decreased since 2001, but disapproval of adultery has held steady.
Renard was fully aware of Nick and Juliette’s committed relationship. I side with the 91% that the hate sex Renard and Juliette had was reprehensible. They both betrayed Nick. Renard is not in the circle of Nick’s friends. Renard is Nick’s captain and has a duty to help each of his officers maintain domestic tranquility. Renard’s fornication with Juliette was beyond betrayal. It was a heinous dereliction of duty. Juliette ended up dead. When Nick has revelation of what they did, Renard will pay a price. In the real world, the cuckold Nick would resign from PPD and recover. But this is Grimm and Nick is out for revenge.
I agree with your spice of life comment. I expect Grimm season 5 to be quite spicey!
New Guy
On Nick revenge I see Viktor as the one Nick would be after (if he is still alive). It was Viktor who used Adalind baby to get Adalind to take Nick's Grimm. I see Nick wanting to get revenge on them as Viktor was only following the Kings directions.
We know that when this happen with Sean. Juliette had left Nick and to my thinking Nick took it as they were no longer were a couple. The night that happen Nick did ask her to stay and they would work things out. Some think if he kissed the hexenbeist she would have stayed I think if he had she would have found another reason to leave. I have a saying in was in the script.
I think she was in a way punishing Sean for Elizabeth in her mind doing this to her. (I still go with a Jack influence also). As she had left him does that change anything for you? Would you say that they were still together or would you as I do think it was over between them? Which way would you think Nick took it? Maybe thinking he could get her back but for now it way over.
Adalind did say to Sean (when she was taking about Kelly) she a Grimm I'm a hexenbeist and you know how that goes. I would use that as another point the Nick and Juliette were no long a couple there pasted life was ended? Does this change any of you thoughts? Only Sean and Juliette know about this so why would Sean even tell Nick?
Like I said just my 2 cent.
Hello JS,
I always appreciate the opinions of Grimm fans.
The show is filmed in Portland using actual scenes from the city. It seems the intent of the producers is to make the Grimm/Wessen world exist in the real world. As such it seems that PPD should have the same code of conduct on Grimm as in the real world.
Victor is right up there on the list of bad guys. However, first Nick needs to get Renard on the path of righteousness. Time out in a corner will not provide the needed correction. Nick needs to use Grimm discipline to correct the zauberbiest. He needs to pummel Renard into true atonement.
Nick and the real Juliette never broke up. The hexenbiest had taken over Juliette’s body and mind, but perhaps not her soul. In that final scene she spoke of love for Nick. She died in Nick’s arms and you could feel his deep love for her. Juliette destroyed her relationship with Nick, but his love for her never failed. Renard and Juliette knew of Nick’s love when they had zauerbiest/hexenbiest hate sex. Their double betrayal of Nick was repulsive.
Nick could learn about the Renard/Juliette activity since she shacked up with him for a period of time before moving on to Kenneth. Renard’s apartment had surveillance cameras. There is cell phone evidence. Other forensic evidence could bring this revelation to Nick. Renard is an egotist and could decide to hurt Nick by telling him what great sex they had while Juliette was with him. Kenneth tried that line and paid the price. The writers seem to like babies, so what if the autopsy of Juliette reveals a fetus with Renard’s DNA genetics? The autopsy will likely show Kenneth’s semen, but Nick already Grimmed Kenny boy.
There’s my 2 cents!
New Guy