(07-16-2015, 05:40 PM)New Guy Wrote: Renard, Revelation and Revenge

Hi Grimm Fans:

There has been much speculation about Nick’s “friendship” with Captain Sean Renard. Others believe Renard will be a mentor to Nick and the team. With “friends” like Renard, Nick doesn’t need enemies. Renard could mentor Nick how to be a self-serving, dishonest, ruthless criminal, but is that what Nick should become?

In the “Headache” episode, Nick, Hank and Wu seem to enjoy unloading a barrage of (rubber) bullets into Renard. Renard has betrayed them all; even endangering their lives if it would aid his schemes.

Renard’s rap sheet is extensive:

In 1.1, right out of the gate, Renard sent Adalind Schade to the hospital to kill Marie Kessler. Marie (a skilled Grimm) was Nick’s Aunt who raised him.

In 2.13, Renard stole a key from Nick’s desk in the PPD office.

He let Adalind cook up a hate sex relationship for him and Juliette. Nick was about to take care of business in the 2.13 “Face Off,” but Renard weasels out by returning the key.

In 4.17 “Hibernaculum” Renard could have told Juliette he was loyal to Nick and help her see Nick’s love for her. Instead, he joins her in some hate sex after Juliette promises “this will hurt.”

As JSGrimm45 noted, “Renard once asked Nick if he trusted him and Nick said about as much as you trust me.” Renard is a Royal, a viperous one that cannot be trusted.

The writers have indicated that season 5 will have Nick get his revenge. They are not specific about who, when, where or how Nick will get revenge. We do know that Kenneth murdered Kelly and fornicated with Juliette. Nick’s revenge for Kenneth came at an abandoned warehouse outside Portland. Nick and Kenneth meet face to face. Nick at first tries to question Kenneth, but when he's only met with taunts about his mother and Juliette, he turns to a more physical method of persuasion. As Wu and Hank listen along outside, Nick and Kenneth trade blows. In the end, Kenneth is no match for a vengeful Nick, who slides a blade from one of his Grimm weapons into Kenneth's throat and proclaims, "For my mother."

We know that Renard attempted to murder Marie and fornicated with Juliette. He has never shown any remorse to Nick any of his vile acts.

So Grimm fans, where, when and how will Nick implement revenge upon Renard?

New Guy

(07-17-2015, 08:59 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:

(07-16-2015, 05:40 PM)New Guy Wrote: Renard, Revelation and Revenge

Hi Grimm Fans:

There has been much speculation about Nick’s “friendship” with Captain Sean Renard. Others believe Renard will be a mentor to Nick and the team. With “friends” like Renard, Nick doesn’t need enemies. Renard could mentor Nick how to be a self-serving, dishonest, ruthless criminal, but is that what Nick should become?

In the “Headache” episode, Nick, Hank and Wu seem to enjoy unloading a barrage of (rubber) bullets into Renard. Renard has betrayed them all; even endangering their lives if it would aid his schemes.

Renard’s rap sheet is extensive:

In 1.1, right out of the gate, Renard sent Adalind Schade to the hospital to kill Marie Kessler. Marie (a skilled Grimm) was Nick’s Aunt who raised him.

In 2.13, Renard stole a key from Nick’s desk in the PPD office.

He let Adalind cook up a hate sex relationship for him and Juliette. Nick was about to take care of business in the 2.13 “Face Off,” but Renard weasels out by returning the key.

In 4.17 “Hibernaculum” Renard could have told Juliette he was loyal to Nick and help her see Nick’s love for her. Instead, he joins her in some hate sex after Juliette promises “this will hurt.”

As JSGrimm45 noted, “Renard once asked Nick if he trusted him and Nick said about as much as you trust me.” Renard is a Royal, a viperous one that cannot be trusted.

The writers have indicated that season 5 will have Nick get his revenge. They are not specific about who, when, where or how Nick will get revenge. We do know that Kenneth murdered Kelly and fornicated with Juliette. Nick’s revenge for Kenneth came at an abandoned warehouse outside Portland. Nick and Kenneth meet face to face. Nick at first tries to question Kenneth, but when he's only met with taunts about his mother and Juliette, he turns to a more physical method of persuasion. As Wu and Hank listen along outside, Nick and Kenneth trade blows. In the end, Kenneth is no match for a vengeful Nick, who slides a blade from one of his Grimm weapons into Kenneth's throat and proclaims, "For my mother."

We know that Renard attempted to murder Marie and fornicated with Juliette. He has never shown any remorse to Nick any of his vile acts.

So Grimm fans, where, when and how will Nick implement revenge upon Renard?

New Guy

Again a different way to look at Renard Nick relationship. I hadn't thought about Nick and Renard having any problems. It look to me that they were working together very well now I'll have to change and rethink this.

My question back to you will the writers put this in or will they drop it so as only the fans know this? If they put it in how would you see it going would see Nick getting revenge or would you see it as Nick does need any more problems?

(07-17-2015, 11:45 AM)New Guy Wrote:

(07-17-2015, 08:59 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:

(07-16-2015, 05:40 PM)New Guy Wrote: Renard, Revelation and Revenge

Hi Grimm Fans:

There has been much speculation about Nick’s “friendship” with Captain Sean Renard. Others believe Renard will be a mentor to Nick and the team. With “friends” like Renard, Nick doesn’t need enemies. Renard could mentor Nick how to be a self-serving, dishonest, ruthless criminal, but is that what Nick should become?

In the “Headache” episode, Nick, Hank and Wu seem to enjoy unloading a barrage of (rubber) bullets into Renard. Renard has betrayed them all; even endangering their lives if it would aid his schemes.

Renard’s rap sheet is extensive:

In 1.1, right out of the gate, Renard sent Adalind Schade to the hospital to kill Marie Kessler. Marie (a skilled Grimm) was Nick’s Aunt who raised him.

In 2.13, Renard stole a key from Nick’s desk in the PPD office.

He let Adalind cook up a hate sex relationship for him and Juliette. Nick was about to take care of business in the 2.13 “Face Off,” but Renard weasels out by returning the key.

In 4.17 “Hibernaculum” Renard could have told Juliette he was loyal to Nick and help her see Nick’s love for her. Instead, he joins her in some hate sex after Juliette promises “this will hurt.”

As JSGrimm45 noted, “Renard once asked Nick if he trusted him and Nick said about as much as you trust me.” Renard is a Royal, a viperous one that cannot be trusted.

The writers have indicated that season 5 will have Nick get his revenge. They are not specific about who, when, where or how Nick will get revenge. We do know that Kenneth murdered Kelly and fornicated with Juliette. Nick’s revenge for Kenneth came at an abandoned warehouse outside Portland. Nick and Kenneth meet face to face. Nick at first tries to question Kenneth, but when he's only met with taunts about his mother and Juliette, he turns to a more physical method of persuasion. As Wu and Hank listen along outside, Nick and Kenneth trade blows. In the end, Kenneth is no match for a vengeful Nick, who slides a blade from one of his Grimm weapons into Kenneth's throat and proclaims, "For my mother."

We know that Renard attempted to murder Marie and fornicated with Juliette. He has never shown any remorse to Nick any of his vile acts.

So Grimm fans, where, when and how will Nick implement revenge upon Renard?

New Guy

Again a different way to look at Renard Nick relationship. I hadn't thought about Nick and Renard having any problems. It look to me that they were working together very well now I'll have to change and rethink this.

My question back to you will the writers put this in or will they drop it so as only the fans know this? If they put it in how would you see it going would see Nick getting revenge or would you see it as Nick does need any more problems?

Hello JS,

Thanks for your reply. You posed some good questions.

I cannot speak for the writers. They have provided some surprises. I believe the writers and fans know full well what nasty acts Renard has committed against the Scooby team, the Wessen, the Grimms, the Royals and the city of Portland.

The rubber bullet salvo may have eased the pain Renard inflicted on the Scooby gang, but that did not even the score. Renard owes them major repentance. His persona is the show’s self-serving, devious, egotistical cad so I do not expect any repentance. Lacking a contrite Renard begging forgiveness, I believe revenge against Renard is plausible and essential. I would enjoy it should the writers move the plot with the Scooby team getting sweet revenge.

The first order of business for season 5 is to clean up the mess left by the Headache and Cry Havoc episodes. There is a lot of murder, mayhem and questions that need explanation and resolution.

The writers may take a different direction, but Nick needs to avenge the death of Juliette. I am speaking of the death of the human Juliette who Nick loved deeply and wanted to marry. Her “death” was slow, beginning with the cat scratch and ending with the two crossbow bolts. Juliette the skilled veterinarian and love of Nick’s life passed away to become a rabid beast (hexenbiest) that needed to be put down. Fortunately for Nick, Trubel had the skill and courage fire the shots that saved his life.

So, of the remaining characters who is responsible for Nick losing Juliette? I see Adalind and Renard as guilty. Nick will not go after Adelind. Nick should and I hope he will avenge Juliette’s death. I would thoroughly enjoy watching Nick wail the tar out of Renard. I hope Hank and Wu get to watch and cheer Nick to victory. As Renard recovers from the beating, Nick needs to visit in the hospital to clarify that in the future Renard will take orders from, not give orders to Nick.

New Guy

(07-18-2015, 12:13 AM)izzy Wrote: I just don't see Renard as bad as you are painting him. I think via Monroe, who I think we all agree is a "good guy", we learned the Aunt Marie had less than a sterling reputation. Even on her death bed she was cantankerous and belligerent toward Monroe who was there to assist, demonstrating she labeled people based on stereotypes and made no allowance for the good of an individual, i.e she was about as racist as they come.

I think for Sean to try and get Aunt Marie offed might have been an intelligent reflex action. She did not appear known for her calm demeanor and deliberative skills. Think of it Aunt Marie arrives in Portland and you are wesen, what are you going to think, she is there for a social event?

And as I mentioned in another thread, Renard clearly has his underlings respect, and that is respect given by men and women who every day put their lives on the line based in large part on their ability to assess character. So I would find it a bit incredulous if they were that wrong. In the past I have posted information about some infamous law enforcement characters, I can tell you their juniors knew they had earned less than sterling reputations. Power and politics kept them in office not respect. Renard has the respect of his juniors.

And on the Renard - Juliette thing. It may be a generational thing but the guy code of my day pretty much states a friend twice removed as Renard is to Nick is allowed to poke your girl if she offers it up to him. You are still allowed to be ticked and punch him in the mouth, but men will be men and he is not in the circle of best friends with you, so she is fair game. Also, once again, we have never been privy much to the past of any characters but Monroe and Rosalee. For all we know,prior to Nick, Juliette had a lot of notches on her bed post and I have made the case a couple of times that it is logical to conclude she was slumming when she decided to start seeing Nick. So to a guy who reads women, Juliette may have been considered pretty easy. "We" don't know, because her past was never explored. In the end, Juliette ending in a strong, virile, authoritative man's bed may be very old news.

Anyways on all these points we differ, but, that diversity of opinion is the spice of life.

(07-18-2015, 05:55 AM)New Guy Wrote:

(07-18-2015, 12:13 AM)izzy Wrote: I just don't see Renard as bad as you are painting him. I think via Monroe, who I think we all agree is a "good guy", we learned the Aunt Marie had less than a sterling reputation. Even on her death bed she was cantankerous and belligerent toward Monroe who was there to assist, demonstrating she labeled people based on stereotypes and made no allowance for the good of an individual, i.e she was about as racist as they come.

I think for Sean to try and get Aunt Marie offed might have been an intelligent reflex action. She did not appear known for her calm demeanor and deliberative skills. Think of it Aunt Marie arrives in Portland and you are wesen, what are you going to think, she is there for a social event?

And as I mentioned in another thread, Renard clearly has his underlings respect, and that is respect given by men and women who every day put their lives on the line based in large part on their ability to assess character. So I would find it a bit incredulous if they were that wrong. In the past I have posted information about some infamous law enforcement characters, I can tell you their juniors knew they had earned less than sterling reputations. Power and politics kept them in office not respect. Renard has the respect of his juniors.

And on the Renard - Juliette thing. It may be a generational thing but the guy code of my day pretty much states a friend twice removed as Renard is to Nick is allowed to poke your girl if she offers it up to him. You are still allowed to be ticked and punch him in the mouth, but men will be men and he is not in the circle of best friends with you, so she is fair game. Also, once again, we have never been privy much to the past of any characters but Monroe and Rosalee. For all we know,prior to Nick, Juliette had a lot of notches on her bed post and I have made the case a couple of times that it is logical to conclude she was slumming when she decided to start seeing Nick. So to a guy who reads women, Juliette may have been considered pretty easy. "We" don't know, because her past was never explored. In the end, Juliette ending in a strong, virile, authoritative man's bed may be very old news.

Anyways on all these points we differ, but, that diversity of opinion is the spice of life.

Hello Izzy,

I appreciate, but disagree with your comments.

The Oregon State Police Code of Ethical Conduct includes:

“The Superintendent acknowledges that the citizens of the State of Oregon rightfully expect and demand that the Oregon State Police epitomize the highest ideals of ethical and professional conduct. As an employee, I subscribe to and adopt the ideals set forth in the Code of Ethical Conduct.

As a peace officer, I am the image of penal law and its warden. If I am to be esteemed and the law I typify respected, I must know my authority well and use it wisely. I shall neither exceed nor abuse it.

During my private and public life, I shall conduct myself with the highest degree of integrity and honesty. I shall at all times conduct myself in a manner which consistently maintains the public trust.”

…

I expect PPD has a similar code of conduct. Renard, Nick, Hank and Wu have all violated ethical precepts. Marie came to Portland to pass along the family heritage to her nephew and then die in peace. Renard calling for the murder of Marie just to manipulate Nick cannot be tolerated even under the Code of Grimm. The writers say Nick will get revenge, so in October we will learn what that means.

…

Nick and Juliette were living together. He had proposed marriage to Juliette. He was emotionally “married” to her and they owed each other complete fidelity. Strong societies are built on marriages where the husband and wife are trustworthy and loyal to each other.

In a 2013 Gallup Poll that listed behaviors and societal realities that included porn, gambling, abortion, polygamy, and the death penalty, 91 percent of survey respondents flagged adultery as morally reprehensible. It drew a higher rate of disapproval than any issue on the survey. Instinctively, we sense that lying to and betraying the one person we’ve sworn fealty to is far worse than simply divorcing that person. Condemnation of divorce has decreased since 2001, but disapproval of adultery has held steady.

Renard was fully aware of Nick and Juliette’s committed relationship. I side with the 91% that the hate sex Renard and Juliette had was reprehensible. They both betrayed Nick. Renard is not in the circle of Nick’s friends. Renard is Nick’s captain and has a duty to help each of his officers maintain domestic tranquility. Renard’s fornication with Juliette was beyond betrayal. It was a heinous dereliction of duty. Juliette ended up dead. When Nick has revelation of what they did, Renard will pay a price. In the real world, the cuckold Nick would resign from PPD and recover. But this is Grimm and Nick is out for revenge.

I agree with your spice of life comment. I expect Grimm season 5 to be quite spicey!

New Guy

(07-18-2015, 07:08 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:

(07-18-2015, 05:55 AM)New Guy Wrote:

(07-18-2015, 12:13 AM)izzy Wrote: I just don't see Renard as bad as you are painting him. I think via Monroe, who I think we all agree is a "good guy", we learned the Aunt Marie had less than a sterling reputation. Even on her death bed she was cantankerous and belligerent toward Monroe who was there to assist, demonstrating she labeled people based on stereotypes and made no allowance for the good of an individual, i.e she was about as racist as they come.

I think for Sean to try and get Aunt Marie offed might have been an intelligent reflex action. She did not appear known for her calm demeanor and deliberative skills. Think of it Aunt Marie arrives in Portland and you are wesen, what are you going to think, she is there for a social event?

And as I mentioned in another thread, Renard clearly has his underlings respect, and that is respect given by men and women who every day put their lives on the line based in large part on their ability to assess character. So I would find it a bit incredulous if they were that wrong. In the past I have posted information about some infamous law enforcement characters, I can tell you their juniors knew they had earned less than sterling reputations. Power and politics kept them in office not respect. Renard has the respect of his juniors.

And on the Renard - Juliette thing. It may be a generational thing but the guy code of my day pretty much states a friend twice removed as Renard is to Nick is allowed to poke your girl if she offers it up to him. You are still allowed to be ticked and punch him in the mouth, but men will be men and he is not in the circle of best friends with you, so she is fair game. Also, once again, we have never been privy much to the past of any characters but Monroe and Rosalee. For all we know,prior to Nick, Juliette had a lot of notches on her bed post and I have made the case a couple of times that it is logical to conclude she was slumming when she decided to start seeing Nick. So to a guy who reads women, Juliette may have been considered pretty easy. "We" don't know, because her past was never explored. In the end, Juliette ending in a strong, virile, authoritative man's bed may be very old news.

Anyways on all these points we differ, but, that diversity of opinion is the spice of life.

Hello Izzy,

I appreciate, but disagree with your comments.

The Oregon State Police Code of Ethical Conduct includes:

“The Superintendent acknowledges that the citizens of the State of Oregon rightfully expect and demand that the Oregon State Police epitomize the highest ideals of ethical and professional conduct. As an employee, I subscribe to and adopt the ideals set forth in the Code of Ethical Conduct.

As a peace officer, I am the image of penal law and its warden. If I am to be esteemed and the law I typify respected, I must know my authority well and use it wisely. I shall neither exceed nor abuse it.

During my private and public life, I shall conduct myself with the highest degree of integrity and honesty. I shall at all times conduct myself in a manner which consistently maintains the public trust.”

…

I expect PPD has a similar code of conduct. Renard, Nick, Hank and Wu have all violated ethical precepts. Marie came to Portland to pass along the family heritage to her nephew and then die in peace. Renard calling for the murder of Marie just to manipulate Nick cannot be tolerated even under the Code of Grimm. The writers say Nick will get revenge, so in October we will learn what that means.

…

Nick and Juliette were living together. He had proposed marriage to Juliette. He was emotionally “married” to her and they owed each other complete fidelity. Strong societies are built on marriages where the husband and wife are trustworthy and loyal to each other.

In a 2013 Gallup Poll that listed behaviors and societal realities that included porn, gambling, abortion, polygamy, and the death penalty, 91 percent of survey respondents flagged adultery as morally reprehensible. It drew a higher rate of disapproval than any issue on the survey. Instinctively, we sense that lying to and betraying the one person we’ve sworn fealty to is far worse than simply divorcing that person. Condemnation of divorce has decreased since 2001, but disapproval of adultery has held steady.

Renard was fully aware of Nick and Juliette’s committed relationship. I side with the 91% that the hate sex Renard and Juliette had was reprehensible. They both betrayed Nick. Renard is not in the circle of Nick’s friends. Renard is Nick’s captain and has a duty to help each of his officers maintain domestic tranquility. Renard’s fornication with Juliette was beyond betrayal. It was a heinous dereliction of duty. Juliette ended up dead. When Nick has revelation of what they did, Renard will pay a price. In the real world, the cuckold Nick would resign from PPD and recover. But this is Grimm and Nick is out for revenge.

I agree with your spice of life comment. I expect Grimm season 5 to be quite spicey!

New Guy

Just my 2 cents @New Guy your point and I'm sure that took some very good research on Oregon code of conduct if we were talking an Oregon police story would be correct. Here is were I would disagree can or should we apply correct codes to this series?

On Nick revenge I see Viktor as the one Nick would be after (if he is still alive). It was Viktor who used Adalind baby to get Adalind to take Nick's Grimm. I see Nick wanting to get revenge on them as Viktor was only following the Kings directions.

We know that when this happen with Sean. Juliette had left Nick and to my thinking Nick took it as they were no longer were a couple. The night that happen Nick did ask her to stay and they would work things out. Some think if he kissed the hexenbeist she would have stayed I think if he had she would have found another reason to leave. I have a saying in was in the script.


I think she was in a way punishing Sean for Elizabeth in her mind doing this to her. (I still go with a Jack influence also). As she had left him does that change anything for you? Would you say that they were still together or would you as I do think it was over between them? Which way would you think Nick took it? Maybe thinking he could get her back but for now it way over.

Adalind did say to Sean (when she was taking about Kelly) she a Grimm I'm a hexenbeist and you know how that goes. I would use that as another point the Nick and Juliette were no long a couple there pasted life was ended? Does this change any of you thoughts? Only Sean and Juliette know about this so why would Sean even tell Nick?

Like I said just my 2 cent.

(07-18-2015, 10:21 AM)New Guy Wrote: Nick could learn about the Renard/Juliette activity since she shacked up with him for a period of time before moving on to Kenneth. Renard’s apartment had surveillance cameras. There is cell phone evidence. Other forensic evidence could bring this revelation to Nick. Renard is an egotist and could decide to hurt Nick by telling him what great sex they had while Juliette was with him. Kenneth tried that line and paid the price.

(07-18-2015, 05:55 AM)New Guy Wrote:

(07-18-2015, 12:13 AM)izzy Wrote: I just don't see Renard as bad as you are painting him. I think via Monroe, who I think we all agree is a "good guy", we learned the Aunt Marie had less than a sterling reputation. Even on her death bed she was cantankerous and belligerent toward Monroe who was there to assist, demonstrating she labeled people based on stereotypes and made no allowance for the good of an individual, i.e she was about as racist as they come.

I think for Sean to try and get Aunt Marie offed might have been an intelligent reflex action. She did not appear known for her calm demeanor and deliberative skills. Think of it Aunt Marie arrives in Portland and you are wesen, what are you going to think, she is there for a social event?

And as I mentioned in another thread, Renard clearly has his underlings respect, and that is respect given by men and women who every day put their lives on the line based in large part on their ability to assess character. So I would find it a bit incredulous if they were that wrong. In the past I have posted information about some infamous law enforcement characters, I can tell you their juniors knew they had earned less than sterling reputations. Power and politics kept them in office not respect. Renard has the respect of his juniors.

And on the Renard - Juliette thing. It may be a generational thing but the guy code of my day pretty much states a friend twice removed as Renard is to Nick is allowed to poke your girl if she offers it up to him. You are still allowed to be ticked and punch him in the mouth, but men will be men and he is not in the circle of best friends with you, so she is fair game. Also, once again, we have never been privy much to the past of any characters but Monroe and Rosalee. For all we know,prior to Nick, Juliette had a lot of notches on her bed post and I have made the case a couple of times that it is logical to conclude she was slumming when she decided to start seeing Nick. So to a guy who reads women, Juliette may have been considered pretty easy. "We" don't know, because her past was never explored. In the end, Juliette ending in a strong, virile, authoritative man's bed may be very old news.

Anyways on all these points we differ, but, that diversity of opinion is the spice of life.

Hello Izzy,

I appreciate, but disagree with your comments.

The Oregon State Police Code of Ethical Conduct includes:

“The Superintendent acknowledges that the citizens of the State of Oregon rightfully expect and demand that the Oregon State Police epitomize the highest ideals of ethical and professional conduct. As an employee, I subscribe to and adopt the ideals set forth in the Code of Ethical Conduct.

As a peace officer, I am the image of penal law and its warden. If I am to be esteemed and the law I typify respected, I must know my authority well and use it wisely. I shall neither exceed nor abuse it.

During my private and public life, I shall conduct myself with the highest degree of integrity and honesty. I shall at all times conduct myself in a manner which consistently maintains the public trust.”

…

I expect PPD has a similar code of conduct. Renard, Nick, Hank and Wu have all violated ethical precepts. Marie came to Portland to pass along the family heritage to her nephew and then die in peace. Renard calling for the murder of Marie just to manipulate Nick cannot be tolerated even under the Code of Grimm. The writers say Nick will get revenge, so in October we will learn what that means.

…

Nick and Juliette were living together. He had proposed marriage to Juliette. He was emotionally “married” to her and they owed each other complete fidelity. Strong societies are built on marriages where the husband and wife are trustworthy and loyal to each other.

In a 2013 Gallup Poll that listed behaviors and societal realities that included porn, gambling, abortion, polygamy, and the death penalty, 91 percent of survey respondents flagged adultery as morally reprehensible. It drew a higher rate of disapproval than any issue on the survey. Instinctively, we sense that lying to and betraying the one person we’ve sworn fealty to is far worse than simply divorcing that person. Condemnation of divorce has decreased since 2001, but disapproval of adultery has held steady.

Renard was fully aware of Nick and Juliette’s committed relationship. I side with the 91% that the hate sex Renard and Juliette had was reprehensible. They both betrayed Nick. Renard is not in the circle of Nick’s friends. Renard is Nick’s captain and has a duty to help each of his officers maintain domestic tranquility. Renard’s fornication with Juliette was beyond betrayal. It was a heinous dereliction of duty. Juliette ended up dead. When Nick has revelation of what they did, Renard will pay a price. In the real world, the cuckold Nick would resign from PPD and recover. But this is Grimm and Nick is out for revenge.

I agree with your spice of life comment. I expect Grimm season 5 to be quite spicey!

New Guy