05-28-2013, 12:01 PM
(05-28-2013, 11:19 AM)grimmfreak Wrote: My main disagreement was that you seemed to be saying there was such a thing as good forms of torture, racism and genocide... that started a side debate. Maybe I misunderstood. If you want to continue that debate maybe we should do it in another thread or in PMs.While I have no problem with side discussions, I'll think I'll pass on this debate for the time being.
However, I would like to highlight several problems with your reasoning. In regard to your argument of torture, for instance, I originally stated that "I can come up with a scenario" i.e., specific facts that can justify a "wrong" such as "torture." You countered with 3 arguments, which show why I generally pass on these types of offtopic debates.
1. "is the obvious moral reason that an enemy, ..." = circular reasoning, I'll pass on this one. Though, on issues of morality, people almost always resort to them.
2. "if you commit torture than the other side will than be that much more likely to do the same." - as I stated in my post, I can come up with a scenario where justified. I need simply state in my scenario "where no one finds out about the torture." Argument no longer applies.
3. "As has been proven many times, information obtained by torture (or threat of harm) cannot be trusted. " - This is an argument against a general practice of torture, as opposed to my argument that under specific facts, torture can be justified. For instance, if there is an atomic bomb that's set to go off, and you torture someone to find the atomic bomb and get the disarmament codes, the fact that torture was successful disproves argument 3, especially since I wasn't arguing for a universal application/policy for torture, but only where it could be acceptable for a specific application.
Anyways, the above highlights why we can go in circles all day coming up with facts when torture/racism/genocide is or is not justified. But as a rule, you can always make facts to support any position, even if those facts are unlikely every to be present in a realistic situation.