05-18-2013, 10:55 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2013, 11:26 AM by HellJacket.)
I can't tell who you are responding to, but for argument sake, let's assume it was one of my posts.
So, under human society, what would be the crime? Gang-raping 17 year old girls.
In contrast, under coyotl society, there is a female coming-of-age ritual that involves a girl being gang-raped by her relatives. Therefore, this conduct is not a crime under coyotl society.
So, based on the facts, this conduct is a crime under human society, but not under coyotl society. That conclusion is the easy part, but now we have the fun part. Which society's social mores, and thus, which criminal statutes, should apply?
In that episode, Carly's parents abandoned their relatives and the coyotl society to live a normal live among the human population. Therefore, Carly and her family have availed themselves of human society and its protections. Therefore, the coyotl gang's conduct must clearly be judged by the human society's laws since Carly and family are outside the coyotl society's jurisdiction, and thus the coyotl gang are intruders.
The problem here is finding a scenario where a human society's jurisdiction doesn't apply. In real life, the laws are based on geographic lines. The only situation I can imagine is where individual members of a wessen community purposely shrugged aside the protections/mores of a human society. The coyotl episode is a poor example of that. But here's a hypothetical situation. Let's say the same initiation ritual was in blutbad society. And under blutbad society, it is customary to slaughter and eat Bauerschwein. If a female blutbad WILLINGLY kills and eats Bauerschwein (thus shrugging aside the protections of human society), I'm not sure she has the right to avail herself of the protections (i.e., criminal statutes) of human society against a similar initiation ritual.
Now, this scenario becomes complicated in whether any of her conduct was "willing." But just to repeat an important maxim, everything criminal is "wrong," but not everything wrong is criminal. (Well, until you realize that the people who actually write legal statutes are pretty incompetent). IMPORTANT: I, personally, think the initiation ritual is wrong in every scenario, but that doesn't mean it's criminal in every scenario, which is the topic of this post.
/Bets this post gets many well-reasoned responses. LOL.
(05-18-2013, 10:12 AM)Gretel Hanselsister Wrote: What a difficult topic!I don't think you understand my argument. First, for clarity sake we need to define what is a crime. A crime, by most legal standards, is a society's condemnation of a particular wrongful mindset, which includes a perpetrator acting upon that mindset. Violating a criminal statute brings retribution from society. If something is wrong, but doesn't violate a criminal statute, there is likely only a civil recourse for the victim or no recourse at all. However, from an ethical standpoint, it may still be wrong.
A gang of coyotls is trying to rape a 17year-old coyotl female. It's in their culture the normal (!) way to initiate young females into the pack. The way they treat her to prepare for the ritual is brutal, so I think it's normal the girl is not necesserily happy with the procedure. Her father turned away from tradition and moved away from the pack, but in your definition the coyotls have every right to treat her this way. Nick judges here in a human/policeofficer way. I'm glad he did!
So, under human society, what would be the crime? Gang-raping 17 year old girls.
In contrast, under coyotl society, there is a female coming-of-age ritual that involves a girl being gang-raped by her relatives. Therefore, this conduct is not a crime under coyotl society.
So, based on the facts, this conduct is a crime under human society, but not under coyotl society. That conclusion is the easy part, but now we have the fun part. Which society's social mores, and thus, which criminal statutes, should apply?
In that episode, Carly's parents abandoned their relatives and the coyotl society to live a normal live among the human population. Therefore, Carly and her family have availed themselves of human society and its protections. Therefore, the coyotl gang's conduct must clearly be judged by the human society's laws since Carly and family are outside the coyotl society's jurisdiction, and thus the coyotl gang are intruders.
The problem here is finding a scenario where a human society's jurisdiction doesn't apply. In real life, the laws are based on geographic lines. The only situation I can imagine is where individual members of a wessen community purposely shrugged aside the protections/mores of a human society. The coyotl episode is a poor example of that. But here's a hypothetical situation. Let's say the same initiation ritual was in blutbad society. And under blutbad society, it is customary to slaughter and eat Bauerschwein. If a female blutbad WILLINGLY kills and eats Bauerschwein (thus shrugging aside the protections of human society), I'm not sure she has the right to avail herself of the protections (i.e., criminal statutes) of human society against a similar initiation ritual.
Now, this scenario becomes complicated in whether any of her conduct was "willing." But just to repeat an important maxim, everything criminal is "wrong," but not everything wrong is criminal. (Well, until you realize that the people who actually write legal statutes are pretty incompetent). IMPORTANT: I, personally, think the initiation ritual is wrong in every scenario, but that doesn't mean it's criminal in every scenario, which is the topic of this post.
/Bets this post gets many well-reasoned responses. LOL.