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+--- Thread: Did Adalind raped Nick? (/Thread-Did-Adalind-raped-Nick)
RE: Did Adalind raped Nick? - Tara - 04-09-2017
(04-09-2017, 09:09 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: Nick and Adalind having more children doesn't diminish their love at all. The triplets were the only children of Monroe and Rosalee mentioned. That means that Rosalee has only been confirmed to be pregnant once. Nick and Adalind have two children because Diana is treated like one of his now. Should we question the love Monroe and Rosalee have for each other since no other kids were mentioned?
I doesn't have a big bond to Adalind - and I for myself will questioned everything what have to do with Adalind. I don't really trust her. It is my opinion. So why should I not questioning it?
After all Adalind is a very credible person ...sarcasm out...
And no, I don't questioned Monroe and Rosalee relationship. Their love and marriage is the only one who is like a rock in the surf.
RE: Did Adalind raped Nick? - MarylikesGrimm - 04-09-2017
(04-09-2017, 08:17 AM)irukandji Wrote: I think Adalind enjoyed herself plenty at the royals expense. As a hexenbiest, she would have been very valuable to them, much more valuable than a regular garden variety assassin. I think she loved the life she led with them.
The family did not see as her valuables and that is why they wanted to kill after giving birth to Diana. Only the first time she went to royals it seems she was having "fun". The second time she went they put cameras in her changing room the first day and there was no "fun" ever with Viktor.
Adalind to me was a flawed and flaky person and was never a planner but someone like that can love people and with a routine can become a much better person. Once someone like that has a routine they tend to hold on it. Adalind loves her life and Nick and her children and would not change without motive. If Nick, Kelly and Diana were killed then Adalind has the motive to turn on the scooby gang.
I got it. You not like Adalind's character and that is your right and do not agree with how Elizabeth Tulloch sees her own character even though she has not worked for NBC for months. Adalind has been seen to act on motive since day one on the screen just saying you want to betray people is your right but cannot convince most people without motive from her point of view.
The first day we saw Adalind she paying off her debt to her mom by working for Sean and yet she was doing bad and evil things but her motive was to help her mom not get rich.
RE: Did Adalind raped Nick? - Tara - 04-09-2017
I don't like her either. Okay, I have read your point of view. Then I have now a question if she only did it for her " mom " why she always picked Juliette as victim back then?
RE: Did Adalind raped Nick? - MarylikesGrimm - 04-09-2017
(04-09-2017, 10:15 AM)Tara Wrote: I don't like her either. Okay, I have read your point of view. Then I have now a question if she only did it for her " mom " why she always picked Juliette as victim back then?
Adalind did not go after Juliette until she lost her powers and Sean and her mother rejected her.
By Adalind putting Juliette in a coma she was able to get revenge on three people (Sean, Nick and her mom) and risk them dying but not guarantee it. In fact, her own mother did die from it and that is why she did not blame mama Kelly for her death. Adalind was not a physical Hexenbiest like her mother so she did not attack Juliette directly until "Bad Luck" where she lost badly. Adalind's motive was to get her daughter back.
RE: Did Adalind raped Nick? - irukandji - 04-09-2017
(04-09-2017, 10:01 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: The family did not see as her valuables and that is why they wanted to kill after giving birth to Diana. Only the first time she went to royals it seems she was having "fun". The second time she went they put cameras in her changing room the first day and there was no "fun" ever with Viktor.
If, it's as you say, then isn't Adalind's behavior in going to the royals a second time a little strange to you?
(04-09-2017, 10:01 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: I got it. You not like Adalind's character and that is your right and do not agree with how Elizabeth Tulloch sees her own character even though she has not worked for NBC for months. Adalind has been seen to act on motive since day one on the screen just saying you want to betray people is your right but cannot convince most people without motive from her point of view.
If this is my right, then why are people who happen to question Adalind or make a suggestion as to why she behaves the way she does accused of rewriting the show? I'm not saying you're guilty of this, but I get the impression that if we don't agree with a pure and wonderful Adalind that we hate the character and we're trying to change things so Juliette comes out better in the end.
(04-09-2017, 10:01 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: The first day we saw Adalind she paying off her debt to her mom by working for Sean and yet she was doing bad and evil things but her motive was to help her mom not get rich.
If she's doing bad and evil things doesn't that make her a bad and evil person?
(04-09-2017, 07:16 AM)Courtney23 Wrote:(04-08-2017, 10:28 PM)irukandji Wrote:(04-08-2017, 10:27 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:(04-08-2017, 10:25 PM)irukandji Wrote: Let me pose a theoretical question. Suppose in the next year or so, a prince from another royal family comes to Portland, sees Adalind walking down the street and likes what he sees. He offers her and her children safe haven and lots of money. Most importantly, this royal prince offers her her own home, something she has never had. Now Adalind's still young and can have children. She loves being with the royals. I'd bet money that she'd betray Nick over that because the prince is offering her something that she has never had and that is her own home.
Adalind has no problem living with little money that is what we are seeing in the show.
That's because nothing better has come along. Adalind likes being associated with royalty. She would have still been with the royals if she could have gotten her way. She wasn't always tortured by the royals.
Nothing better came along she could have been with Sean when black claw was trying to take over the world she didn't want it she wanted Sean she fell in love nick she never had someone care about her like nick that's all she wanted someone that cared for her not use her like Sean did and the royals
Sean isn't the better of the two, that's what I'm trying to say. She went with what was better which (I can't believe I'm admitting to this) *is Nick*.
But if something better came along, I have no doubt Adalind would jump at the chance. I don't see her as the little woman content to wash Nick's undies and tend to his house for him when the man doesn't even show much of a regard for her. It was all the show could do was to have him tell her he loves her, then take him back in time to a point before he ever told her he loved her.
RE: Did Adalind raped Nick? - Tara - 04-09-2017
(04-09-2017, 10:28 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:(04-09-2017, 10:15 AM)Tara Wrote: I don't like her either. Okay, I have read your point of view. Then I have now a question if she only did it for her " mom " why she always picked Juliette as victim back then?
Adalind did not go after Juliette until she lost her powers and Sean and her mother rejected her.
By Adalind putting Juliette in a coma she was able to get revenge on three people (Sean, Nick and her mom) and risk them dying but not guarantee it. In fact, her own mother did die from it and that is why she did not blame mama Kelly for her death. Adalind was not a physical Hexenbiest like her mother so she did not attack Juliette directly until "Bad Luck" where she lost badly. Adalind's motive was to get her daughter back.
Adalind is not stupid - she is a lawyer. She should have known better. It's the same with the " pretend to be Juliette and having sex with Nick " she could have react differently. And again I think Adalind is not stupid and she know exactly what she do. But I don't want to go more into details. Juliette was the one who suffered the most and she was always the weakest member of the group. Accept it or not, but it is my opinion. When I saw " Bad Luck " I thought - Well finally, show it to her, she deserves it.
RE: Did Adalind raped Nick? - Courtney23 - 04-09-2017
(04-08-2017, 10:38 PM)Mrtrick Wrote:(04-08-2017, 09:46 PM)irukandji Wrote:(04-08-2017, 09:44 PM)Mrtrick Wrote:(04-08-2017, 09:19 PM)irukandji Wrote: The last I heard, Renard was Diana's dad, not Nick. So is Nick really with Adalind 20 years later?
Nick is the main character, so they're not going to be talking about what Renard was doing, in the final scene. The whole point of that epilogue was Nick's legacy. His family. Not some other guy who isn't even a Grimm. Diana being there and calling him Dad, is meant to highlight that she is as much a part of him as Kelly, is by this point. And the writers have said that they're all a big happy family, fighting the good fight. And if you intend to bring up the idea that the generalization of that statement could include Renard, I would say that, as it specifically relates to the scene, if they don't mention Monroe, Rosalee, Eve, Trubel, Hank or Wu, they sure aren't going to bring up Renard.
Funny how Kelly referred to him as "my dad". If Diana felt he was her father, wouldn't the wording be "our dad"?
Because saying, "Our Dad and Mom" is how people talk in casual conversation? Or maybe she should have said "Mom and Stepdad are waiting", cause that rolls off the tongue. Kelly would have heard Diana call Nick "Dad" before, so using it in a familiar parlance would have needed no qualification for him. Why is the idea that people would call both Nick and Sean "Dad", rubbing some people the wrong way? It's in no way dismissive of Diana's relationship with Sean. It just means she's also close to Nick. Which is a good and healthy thing.
And for those who've been saying that they can't be close because they never reached that point on the show, I would say that the last interaction she has with him is a warm embrace. And when Nick is telling his mother that he wants his friends back, and Adalind, and Kelly, he also specifically name checks Diana. Also consider the fact that she's just a little girl at this point. A whole heck of a lot can happen in twenty years. Namely maturity. Who do you think taught her the Grimm trade? Given that she's older than Kelly and didn't have to wait for her powers, Diana was probably out in the field with Nick, years sooner. Quality daddy, daughter time. But the option some of you seem to want to imply is that they never bond in any way. Which would mean that Nick doesn't even try to get close to her. Despite the fact that it would mean the world to Adalind, he never makes any effort to be a father in her life? That would be heartbreaking. And so mind bogglingly unlike Nick that one would have to assume some sort of Invasion of the Body Snatchers event transpired. There's no way that Nick doesn't treat Diana as if she's his own. And there's no iteration the writers would intend, that has Adalind with Renard. Not with how creepy and possessive he was toward her during the Black Claw mess. They respect her too much for that.
RE: Did Adalind raped Nick? - MANTItotheCore - 04-09-2017
(04-08-2017, 10:33 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:(04-08-2017, 10:28 PM)irukandji Wrote: That's because nothing better has come along. Adalind likes being associated with royalty. She would have still been with the royals if she could have gotten her way. She wasn't always tortured by the royals.
The Royals betray everyone including each other. The royals always planned to betray Adalind right from the beginning because that is what they did to everyone we saw in the show.
That is why Juliette never went to Europe.
THAT and the fact that she wanted to kill Nick.
(04-09-2017, 10:35 AM)irukandji Wrote:I'm so proud of you, Iruk!(04-09-2017, 10:01 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: The family did not see as her valuables and that is why they wanted to kill after giving birth to Diana. Only the first time she went to royals it seems she was having "fun". The second time she went they put cameras in her changing room the first day and there was no "fun" ever with Viktor.
If, it's as you say, then isn't Adalind's behavior in going to the royals a second time a little strange to you?
(04-09-2017, 10:01 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: I got it. You not like Adalind's character and that is your right and do not agree with how Elizabeth Tulloch sees her own character even though she has not worked for NBC for months. Adalind has been seen to act on motive since day one on the screen just saying you want to betray people is your right but cannot convince most people without motive from her point of view.
If this is my right, then why are people who happen to question Adalind or make a suggestion as to why she behaves the way she does accused of rewriting the show? I'm not saying you're guilty of this, but I get the impression that if we don't agree with a pure and wonderful Adalind that we hate the character and we're trying to change things so Juliette comes out better in the end.
(04-09-2017, 10:01 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: The first day we saw Adalind she paying off her debt to her mom by working for Sean and yet she was doing bad and evil things but her motive was to help her mom not get rich.
If she's doing bad and evil things doesn't that make her a bad and evil person?
(04-09-2017, 07:16 AM)Courtney23 Wrote:(04-08-2017, 10:28 PM)irukandji Wrote:(04-08-2017, 10:27 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:(04-08-2017, 10:25 PM)irukandji Wrote: Let me pose a theoretical question. Suppose in the next year or so, a prince from another royal family comes to Portland, sees Adalind walking down the street and likes what he sees. He offers her and her children safe haven and lots of money. Most importantly, this royal prince offers her her own home, something she has never had. Now Adalind's still young and can have children. She loves being with the royals. I'd bet money that she'd betray Nick over that because the prince is offering her something that she has never had and that is her own home.
Adalind has no problem living with little money that is what we are seeing in the show.
That's because nothing better has come along. Adalind likes being associated with royalty. She would have still been with the royals if she could have gotten her way. She wasn't always tortured by the royals.
Nothing better came along she could have been with Sean when black claw was trying to take over the world she didn't want it she wanted Sean she fell in love nick she never had someone care about her like nick that's all she wanted someone that cared for her not use her like Sean did and the royals
Sean isn't the better of the two, that's what I'm trying to say. She went with what was better which (I can't believe I'm admitting to this) *is Nick*.
RE: Did Adalind raped Nick? - Robyn - 04-09-2017
Quote:I think Adalind enjoyed herself plenty at the royals expense. As a hexenbiest, she would have been very valuable to them, much more valuable than a regular garden variety assassin. I think she loved the life she led with them. I'm not talking about the last trip where she got tortured, but the other trips. She was affected when Trubel told her she'd been to Lisbon. I think she missed her old life.Then why didn’t she become a valuable asset/partner to Viktor in exchange for him helping her get her Hexenbiest back? None of the Royals ever considered Adalind as valuable - even before she lost her Hexenbiest. Instead, Viktor planned to kill her after the baby was born.
There wasn’t any indication that Adalind envied Trubel and her adventurous travels. She asked if Trubel was paid for her work, not as in I want to get some of that, but as in questioning if Trubel was employed or simply being used to do an organization’s dirty work - a situation Adalind understood first hand. Is there anything other than Adalind's reaction to Trubel going to Lisbon that makes you think she misses her old life - the one where she had no one she could depend on and was constantly on the run and getting herself out of one predicament after another?
Quote:As for Nick's life at the fome, Adalind took it because Adalind had no other alternative. Most everyone here stated she was desperate. The way I understand desperate, a person is reduced to taking what they can get.These are completely different mindsets based on completely different circumstances. Adalind took Juliette’s form for the spell, which Viktor demanded before allowing her to see Diana. Why would Adalind care about the people who had just kidnapped her child? When Adalind moved in with Nick after Kelly was born, she was surprised and relieved they were helping her instead of taking her second child.
It's not looking at Nick and the scoobies and figuring that because these people are loving and caring she's getting the better end of the deal. Loving and caring people mean nothing to Adalind. If that was important to her, she wouldn't have assumed Juliette's form. She would have stopped herself and thought of another way.
Quote:I see exactly what Tara and Juliette mean about Nick and Adalind in the fome. Nick didn't do anything any different than he did when he brought her to the fome. Adalind didn't do anything different than when she set a toe in the fome. So I can't understand when the big "click" happened, the lightbulb appeared over both of their heads, and they all of the sudden realized they were in love with one another.There wasn’t a click, nor did the storyline demonstrate Nick and Adalind progressing into a relationship. G & K don’t know how to write man-woman interactions/relationships. And I don’t think they’re interested in devoting time to it, they simply had Nick/Adalind suddenly exist when the story was ready for it. But their lack of skill and attention to important details don’t equate to Adalind’s change/growth being a farce. Juliette’s lickety-split leaps to raging, vengeful Hexenbiest then to emotionally-void HW weapon wasn’t well executed either, but poor execution doesn’t substantiate that she didn’t suddenly hate everyone she once loved then just as suddenly become a robotic clone.
A love that is so all encompassing that it overcomes some quite severe injuries, assaults on friends, assaults on a beloved, and the whole gamut. These two aren't Heathcliff and Cathy. They're two rather nondescript people and one invited the other into a warehouse because she was desperate and had no home.
Quote:Adalind may be walking around with blinders on in the hopes it'll all sink in. Taking her shirt off for Nick and offering him sex when he's about to leave for Germany just doesn't seem to offer any proof that it's all turned for her, however. In fact, to me, it makes her motives even more questionable.This, we see as exact opposites. Where you see conniving and self serving, I see a woman so beaten down she’s not only willing to accept that her life with Nick is the best she can hope for, she’s accepted it’s more than she deserves.
If Adalind was conning Nick with sex and pretense of love, why was she terrified of her Hexenbiest returning? For that matter, if she cares so little for Nick and his friends, why didn’t she simply kill Rosalee to ensure Nick didn’t find out the suppressant had worn off? She could have blamed Rosalee’s death on the drug-addled old friend who attacked her in the spice shop. She could have called Hank and played the role of devastated friend who had witnessed poor Rosalee’s murder and been helpless to stop it. She could have continued the ruse when Nick and Monroe returned with crocodile tears and feigned regret that the suppressant prevented her from saving her dear friend Rosalee.
Quote:So if a royal prince came along and offered her her life's desire, including going to Lisbon at least one more time than Trubel did, would Adalind jump at the chance? Of that I have no doubt.I don’t understand why Adalind would continue wishing upon a star for a prince to come along instead of jumping at Bonaparte’s offer. Bonaparte considered Adalind and Diana as pivotal components of BC’s plans in Portland, and was willing to woo her, until he tired of her reluctance to actively participate. Not only could Adalind have achieved this life of luxury and power, she could have used her position to make herself more valuable to BC than Renard, because Adalind had something Renard couldn’t bring to the negotiations - inside information on the Grimm and HW.
So why did Adalind continually refuse to provide Bonaparte information on Nick? Why did she rebuff Renard, not necessarily the sex part, but as her partner in achieving her true goal of riches and power? Why ask Diana to warn Nick instead of hoping BC would take him out of the game? Once Nick was gone, his friends would have been easy prey.
Quote:I just appreciate seeing a few people on the board who will stand up for Juliette.This doesn’t have anything to do with standing up for a particular character, and it shouldn‘t have anything to do with putting down a particular character. Such a statement takes this discussion in the direction all Adalind and Juliette discussions eventually steer - one vs. the other. Adalind finally learning that healthy decisions reap healthy benefits does not compromise Juliette. Adalind can’t decide where Nick lives and with whom - that’s Nick’s choice. And I’ve never seen Nick make a decision based only what either woman wants or needs at any given time.
Both experienced similar journeys in S5. Juliette didn’t learn to take control of her emotions or the Hexenbiest. She was made into something akin to a cyborg and existed under Meisner’s thumb. Adalind didn’t take control of her life and make a plan for her and the children. She became a ward dependant on the kindness of former enemies and existed under Nick’s thumb. Both characters made bad decisions that led them to where they are now. The characters appear to have worked through the repercussions of their bad decisions and are content with their present lives. That those outcomes don’t fit every viewer’s preference doesn’t make them less satisfying for the characters or the writers.
I would have preferred a different outcome for Adalind, but not preferring the show’s interpretation doesn’t equate to it not happening. To dismiss Adalind’s progression because the show failed to properly execute it is akin to dismissing Juliette’s transformation to a Hexenbiest, then Eve the HW super weapon, then an Eve-Juliette hybrid who suddenly lost her Hexenbiest without explanation then suddenly got it back without explanation. Poor execution does not suggest that the original Juliette must be sitting at the old house wondering where Nick’s been all this time.
RE: Did Adalind raped Nick? - irukandji - 04-09-2017
(04-09-2017, 10:45 AM)Courtney23 Wrote: Because saying, "Our Dad and Mom" is how people talk in casual conversation? Or maybe she should have said "Mom and Stepdad are waiting", cause that rolls off the tongue. Kelly would have heard Diana call Nick "Dad" before, so using it in a familiar parlance would have needed no qualification for him. Why is the idea that people would call both Nick and Sean "Dad", rubbing some people the wrong way? It's in no way dismissive of Diana's relationship with Sean. It just means she's also close to Nick. Which is a good and healthy thing.
Kelly is writing in a book. Now if this is a book for posterity, then he isn't going to refer to his Dad at all. He's going to simply describe the Z and how it was destroyed.
If this is a personal diary Kelly is writing in, then "our dad" would be much more appropriate.
So the fact that he states "my dad" makes sense when he's referring to Nick. The fact that Diana talks about Mom and Dad means she's referring to Adalind and Sean.