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There hasn't been a continuous proposal rejection, though. Nick proposed once. And Juliette, being the incredibly wise, amazing woman that she is, gave the right response to that. You don't get engaged to someone who's keeping secrets from you.

Nick's comments to her in the finale were not a proposal. It was him talking *about* the fact that he had been planning to propose -- not at all the same thing. I don't think he intended it to pass for a proposal, either -- I certainly hope he wouldn't choose a moment that terrible to pop the question. In that case, I'd say the continuous problem is more Nick not having the sense to know when it's absolutely the wrong time to propose than Juliette turning him down.

I don't want to see Juliette go anywhere -- she's my favorite character on the show, and has been for quite a while. But I almost feel like I'd like to see her call Nick on all his B.S. There was a time when I couldn't imagine the show with them not together, but Nick has spent some serious time getting on my nerves since then. He takes his loved ones for granted, and he can be incredibly cowardly about facing up to difficult personal situations. I kind of feel like I want him to grow up and get his act together before they take the next step. (I want to see him grow up and get his act together for his character in general, but also for him and J.)

(05-17-2014, 04:49 AM)GrimminFlorida1 Wrote: [ -> ]I found that part kind of awkward as well. What through me off is how Adadlind was acting like herself and not Juliette. Nick should know Juliette's personality well. Juiiette doesn't seem like a hopeless romantic who would just do something like this out of the blue. It didn't take Truble long to see through Adalind's trick.

Nick's a man. Under those circumstances, most men--particularly young, hot-blooded men like Nick--don't think with their heads. Truble, as a woman, is more clear-headed in judging other women.

(05-17-2014, 08:15 AM)Hyndara Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks a lot for making a perfect show unwatchable, GrimmWriters!
I hate, hate, HATE Trubel! The sooner someone put her into jail (and hopeful on Death Row) the better! But no, she will be regular in season 4. I'm done with this mess!

Bye-bye!

(05-17-2014, 10:55 AM)Courtney Wrote: [ -> ]What is with the Trubel hate? I honestly really like her character, and Nick enjoys having another Grimm around. Now, she's kinda the only Grimm around for awhile, so I hope they keep her around. She has felt isolated and crazy her entire life and now finally feels like part of a family... I agree with Gretel, that Trubel did the best she could and reacted the right way in each situation she was in. The only difference I would maybe have seen is when she followed "Juliette" to the cab, then saw it wasn't Juliette, she might have mentioned it to Nick and Juliette when they were getting ready to leave for the wedding... but then again, maybe she thought she was going crazy again, who knows.

Trubel isn't used to trusting people or confiding in them. She knows that this doesn't necessarily apply any more, but that is head-knowledge, not heart-knowledge.

(05-18-2014, 05:06 PM)Berkilak de Hautdesert Wrote: [ -> ]Royals have four keys, Nick has two, who has the last one?

I've said it before--there was a Grimm on the TITANIC and the seventh key is at the bottom of the sea.

(05-22-2014, 12:45 PM)virgo79 Wrote: [ -> ]There hasn't been a continuous proposal rejection, though. Nick proposed once. And Juliette, being the incredibly wise, amazing woman that she is, gave the right response to that. You don't get engaged to someone who's keeping secrets from you.

Nick's comments to her in the finale were not a proposal. It was him talking *about* the fact that he had been planning to propose -- not at all the same thing. I don't think he intended it to pass for a proposal, either -- I certainly hope he wouldn't choose a moment that terrible to pop the question. In that case, I'd say the continuous problem is more Nick not having the sense to know when it's absolutely the wrong time to propose than Juliette turning him down.

I don't want to see Juliette go anywhere -- she's my favorite character on the show, and has been for quite a while. But I almost feel like I'd like to see her call Nick on all his B.S. There was a time when I couldn't imagine the show with them not together, but Nick has spent some serious time getting on my nerves since then. He takes his loved ones for granted, and he can be incredibly cowardly about facing up to difficult personal situations. I kind of feel like I want him to grow up and get his act together before they take the next step. (I want to see him grow up and get his act together for his character in general, but also for him and J.)

You do make a good point about him taking his friendships rather casually. I still don't know who Monroe's favorite Bond girl is! But I still can't see how Juliette can get over the whole Adalind posing as Juliette thing. I mean, everyone has a line, and Juliette's been understanding to the point where she would give Mother Teresa a run for her money, but I think this is still the limit. I very much expect Juliette and Nick to have another separation at the beginning of Season 4, even with Nick having lost his Grimm sight. And I can't see how their relationship will survive a second separation.

(05-18-2014, 05:21 PM)pale boy Wrote: [ -> ]I'm worried for Trubel since her fingerprints are likely all over Nick and Juliette's house. Not looking good for her when those are found.

All they need to do is explain that she's been living there. There is a perfectly innocent reason for her prints.

Theresa (I refuse to use the cutesy nickname) also has a record and was being looked at in connection with a couple of violent murders. Nick took pains to make sure she wasn't found at at least one crime scene. I'd be very surprised if she isn't at least investigated in connection with Renard's shooting and FBI guy's death. I'm fully expecting that the writers will try for some suspense by arresting her as a suspect, and playing the will-he-or-won't-he-wake-up-to-clear-her game with Renard.

Not gonna lie -- I'm not at all impressed by that character. It's like the writers pulled every cliche out of the StrongFemaleCharacter! Playbook for her. They play up the trauma of her background, but don't write her as having any realistic difficulties adapting to her new role (her eating habits, surliness, and lack of culinary ability are not anything approaching realistic difficulties.) Her flaws aren't actually portrayed as flaws; her few bad habits from the road are portrayed as endearing. She became cozy with Monroe and Rosalee with no difficulty at all, despite the fact that she apparently only ran into the most violent of Wesen for years, she became instant besties with Nick, and there's no attempt to show a true struggle to adjust.

Everything with her character feels unearned to me. Her grit isn't gritty, her rough edges are all pretty rounded, and for all her supposed hardship, her initiation into the group has been cake. She's all flash and fluff. And the writers seem infatuated with her, because they managed to cram her into every single storyline unfolding in the finale. She was the magic bullet in the Juliette/Adalind situation, she had the all-important conversation with Renard about Nick and Adalind, she saved the day in the Royals/Verrat plot o' the week, and she hijacked Monroe and Rosalee's wedding. She's spreading like smallpox -- like plucky, rebellious-street-waif-with-a-machete-and-a-heart-of-gold smallpox.

(05-22-2014, 06:28 PM)virgo79 Wrote: [ -> ]Theresa (I refuse to use the cutesy nickname) also has a record and was being looked at in connection with a couple of violent murders. Nick took pains to make sure she wasn't found at at least one crime scene. I'd be very surprised if she isn't at least investigated in connection with Renard's shooting and FBI guy's death. I'm fully expecting that the writers will try for some suspense by arresting her as a suspect, and playing the will-he-or-won't-he-wake-up-to-clear-her game with Renard.

Not gonna lie -- I'm not at all impressed by that character. It's like the writers pulled every cliche out of the StrongFemaleCharacter! Playbook for her. They play up the trauma of her background, but don't write her as having any realistic difficulties adapting to her new role (her eating habits, surliness, and lack of culinary ability are not anything approaching realistic difficulties.) Her flaws aren't actually portrayed as flaws; her few bad habits from the road are portrayed as endearing. She became cozy with Monroe and Rosalee with no difficulty at all, despite the fact that she apparently only ran into the most violent of Wesen for years, she became instant besties with Nick, and there's no attempt to show a true struggle to adjust.

Everything with her character feels unearned to me. Her grit isn't gritty, her rough edges are all pretty rounded, and for all her supposed hardship, her initiation into the group has been cake. She's all flash and fluff. And the writers seem infatuated with her, because they managed to cram her into every single storyline unfolding in the finale. She was the magic bullet in the Juliette/Adalind situation, she had the all-important conversation with Renard about Nick and Adalind, she saved the day in the Royals/Verrat plot o' the week, and she hijacked Monroe and Rosalee's wedding. She's spreading like smallpox -- like plucky, rebellious-street-waif-with-a-machete-and-a-heart-of-gold smallpox.

I have to admit, that was a heckuva diatribe! Applause!

I like the concept of T. Rubel (I will forgo calling her Trubel for your sake), but it does seem like the story line has been hurried a bit.

(05-22-2014, 06:28 PM)virgo79 Wrote: [ -> ]She's spreading like smallpox -- like plucky, rebellious-street-waif-with-a-machete-and-a-heart-of-gold smallpox.

But smallpox is eradicated. Hope you're not suggesting we eradicate Trubel. She's fun.

I like Trubel and really, the big thing that irks me about her is that she was put into the story to take care of things for a de-powered Nick -- I can see why it works for the show; however, I just think it would have been interesting to see the "normals" handle the Grimm stuff by themselves. But that is something seen in hindsight. Otherwise, I think she's great. (Second thing I didn't really care for was the whole girl-with-the-troubled-past was -- of course -- the victim of attempted sexual assault. That's a trope I'm really tired of just in general, not just for "bad girl" type characters.)

I'm not so worried about the irks and quirks of Truble. The character was brought in for season 4, not season 3. There is more to her character that meets the eye. There is something mysterious about her black knight chess piece. I've enjoyed this new face on Grimm and hope she sticks around for a while.

Does anyone else miss Nick and Hank being alone on cases? Maybe will see more of that with a none-grimm Nick around.

Quote:I like the concept of T. Rubel (I will forgo calling her Trubel for your sake), but it does seem like the story line has been hurried a bit.

Agreed. I've been wanting to see a Grimm brought in who isn't a member of Nick's family; I love the idea. But there wasn't any care taken in weaving her into the story in a thoughtful way. Instead she was just flung into the middle of everything.

Quote:The character was brought in for season 4, not season 3. There is more to her character that meets the eye.

Maybe the showrunners are just super taken with their shiny new cast member, and they're binge-writing her for now, but will back off on her next season. If they would take the time to write her as a fleshed-out character, nix the Mary Sue perfection of her and actually give her *real* flaws that have an effect on her interaction with the others, and work her into the storyline thoughtfully and organically instead of insisting on keeping her in the spotlight even when it should belong to someone else, she could work.

Quote:the big thing that irks me about her is that she was put into the story to take care of things for a de-powered Nick -- I can see why it works for the show; however, I just think it would have been interesting to see the "normals" handle the Grimm stuff by themselves. But that is something seen in hindsight. Otherwise, I think she's great. (Second thing I didn't really care for was the whole girl-with-the-troubled-past was -- of course -- the victim of attempted sexual assault. That's a trope I'm really tired of just in general, not just for "bad girl" type characters.)

Agreed a hundred percent. I want to see how Nick losing his powers influences his relationships with the people who have been there with him all along -- and i want to see him forced to tackle the situations he comes up against from a different angle. I don't want to see Nick sidelined and Theresa taking point. If the story is used as a character exploration for Nick and a way to showcase his relationships, it could be awesome. If it's just a vehicle for the new girl...not so much.

And I agree with you on the past trauma/sexual assault aspects of her story, too. It was overdone, and because there isn't any lasting fallout from it manifesting in how she behaves now, it feels cheap and exploitative to me -- like they're spinning it to make the character sympathetic and up her likability, instead of giving it the weight that part of her story should have.

This show has a weird sort of duality going with its female characters. On the one hand, it's given us women like Juliette, Rosalee, and Adalind, who are (with a few plotcake-induced stumbling points, but the men have those, too) wonderfully complex, very thoughtfully and realistically written, and embody true strength, as opposed to being StrongFemaleCharacters! There are women like Marie and Kelly, like Angelina, and like Zuri, who were also all clearly created with care. For me, most of the truly impressive villains on the show have been women. There have been episodes like "The Thing with Feathers," "Bad Moon Rising," and "Eye of the Beholder" that dealt with violence against women in a very conscientious way, and that portrayed victimized women without reducing them to victims. But in other ways, the show has demonstrated some staggering misogyny and sexism -- the handling of the Juliette/Renard curse storyline is probably the worst example of that for me. So I'm never quite able to fully trust the writers when it comes to dealing with its female characters -- and for me, Theresa is an example of when they've missed the mark big time. That's not to say they can't change my mind on her -- we'll see.

the last few eppies were really great, but than trubel started to weigh thin on me. i am cool with a female grimm, she was great and everything but i kinda felt that they were trying a little too hard to show she was just as bad ass as nick, it was a bit much!!

adalind sleeping with nick through deception was nasty to the max, i hated everything about it. not only is this more drama for nick and juliette who i was so enjoying just being happy, now they have to live with the knowledge that he slept with adalind, a woman who put juliette in a coma and caused so much trouble for the two of them. also, the fact that he thought it was juliette, the guilt he will be feeling, the disgust, and as someone said it is like rape. poor poor nick, cause seing monsters and royalty trying to kill you at every turn isn't bad enough.

i was horrified (and secrety happy) when rosalee's sister ruined her dress, im like oh no! her dressssssss! and secretly i was YESSSSSSSS! and that dress she ended up with was so much better and monroe's parents buying the dress for her, awww! loved that.

poor sean, shot! ugh!

adalind, so stupid! is there not a spell she could do to find her baby?? sean was hit by that vase, so there is some kind of connection still there, so why did she not do that?? instead she has made an enemy of nick even further, and this isn't i took your powers type of thing, it's you made me sleep with you and ruined my relationship and degraded me type of enemy. so again, she is heading to china!! i hope she is fluent in cantinese, she's going to need it!! ugh!! ugh!! ugggghhhh!!!

all and all, it was good, not exciting or anything, it was alright!!

(05-23-2014, 05:00 AM)virgo79 Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:I like the concept of T. Rubel (I will forgo calling her Trubel for your sake), but it does seem like the story line has been hurried a bit.

Agreed. I've been wanting to see a Grimm brought in who isn't a member of Nick's family; I love the idea. But there wasn't any care taken in weaving her into the story in a thoughtful way. Instead she was just flung into the middle of everything.

Quote:The character was brought in for season 4, not season 3. There is more to her character that meets the eye.

Maybe the showrunners are just super taken with their shiny new cast member, and they're binge-writing her for now, but will back off on her next season. If they would take the time to write her as a fleshed-out character, nix the Mary Sue perfection of her and actually give her *real* flaws that have an effect on her interaction with the others, and work her into the storyline thoughtfully and organically instead of insisting on keeping her in the spotlight even when it should belong to someone else, she could work.

Quote:the big thing that irks me about her is that she was put into the story to take care of things for a de-powered Nick -- I can see why it works for the show; however, I just think it would have been interesting to see the "normals" handle the Grimm stuff by themselves. But that is something seen in hindsight. Otherwise, I think she's great. (Second thing I didn't really care for was the whole girl-with-the-troubled-past was -- of course -- the victim of attempted sexual assault. That's a trope I'm really tired of just in general, not just for "bad girl" type characters.)

Agreed a hundred percent. I want to see how Nick losing his powers influences his relationships with the people who have been there with him all along -- and i want to see him forced to tackle the situations he comes up against from a different angle. I don't want to see Nick sidelined and Theresa taking point. If the story is used as a character exploration for Nick and a way to showcase his relationships, it could be awesome. If it's just a vehicle for the new girl...not so much.

And I agree with you on the past trauma/sexual assault aspects of her story, too. It was overdone, and because there isn't any lasting fallout from it manifesting in how she behaves now, it feels cheap and exploitative to me -- like they're spinning it to make the character sympathetic and up her likability, instead of giving it the weight that part of her story should have.

This show has a weird sort of duality going with its female characters. On the one hand, it's given us women like Juliette, Rosalee, and Adalind, who are (with a few plotcake-induced stumbling points, but the men have those, too) wonderfully complex, very thoughtfully and realistically written, and embody true strength, as opposed to being StrongFemaleCharacters! There are women like Marie and Kelly, like Angelina, and like Zuri, who were also all clearly created with care. For me, most of the truly impressive villains on the show have been women. There have been episodes like "The Thing with Feathers," "Bad Moon Rising," and "Eye of the Beholder" that dealt with violence against women in a very conscientious way, and that portrayed victimized women without reducing them to victims. But in other ways, the show has demonstrated some staggering misogyny and sexism -- the handling of the Juliette/Renard curse storyline is probably the worst example of that for me. So I'm never quite able to fully trust the writers when it comes to dealing with its female characters -- and for me, Theresa is an example of when they've missed the mark big time. That's not to say they can't change my mind on her -- we'll see.

absolutely agree with everything you guys are saying here. i too like her but she is put into all the situations where we could just see nick or hank in that situation and dealing with it. i like her, i like that she looks a lot like nick, i like pretty much everything about her. but i want to know more about her, i want to see her as a person not that she can hit a wessen that part is obvious but what makes her her?!!??! i find it interesting that this is what would have happened to nick if it wasn't for aunt marie. nick's life after his parents 'death' was pretty difficult but she had it even worse. i want her to make a bad decision based on a flawed view and working through it. i want her to talk about her parents, who were they and where are they now? were they grimms? or were they like that guy from a few eppies ago who's father was a grimm but he wasn't?? maybe there is a member of the scoobies that doesn't like her just based on hey i just don't like you! LOL! that is so unlikely but it would be interesting because it would show her as a flawed person.

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