(05-01-2018, 08:56 AM)Zansy Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2018, 11:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]I have several relatives that have survived in relationships with LE partners and some that did not. The same principal applies to other professions too, not just LE. Nurses come to mind. They are also faced to working rotating shifts & long hours.
Nurses, and hospital staff in general, alongside firefighters are the examples I was thinking of when I said “(or any other crazy work hours job)”. 
But do you seriously expect your relatives who’re in those relationships to always just quietly support those hours without ever speaking up about them? I’ve heard complaints both from the partners. And from the people working those hours. And I thought both valid.
Juliette isn’t yelling at Nick over this. She’s just saying that she’d rather have him at home and that he should sleep more. Which I’d say is a good sign in a relationship. If she was going “oh thank God you’re finally leaving!” I’d be a lot more concerned.
The point I made by referring to nurses as you added firefighters was to point out not everyone in such a relationship is a good match in the long run. Do they all fail? NO. Do they all succeed? NO. How does this reference Nick and Juliette? They were incomparable with Nick working his hours.
(04-30-2018, 11:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]Back to Juliette.
E1, His aunt comes for a surprise visit and she doesn’t bother to drop a dime to give him a heads-up? She was only the aunt that was a mother to him during his childhood. Kind of an inconsiderate life partner for my taste I would have expected a phone call.
Aunt Marie: Sorry for the short notice.
Juliette: What, you didn’t know that she was coming?
(05-01-2018, 08:56 AM)Zansy Wrote: [ -> ]So no, Juliette didn’t bother to call. Because she assumed that Nick knew that Aunt Marie was coming, since normally you do call the people you’re going to visit ahead of time. More amazingly, she quietly accepted coming home to meeting his aunt who she didn’t see in two years without any heads up.
So all that time Aunt Marie was sitting there waiting on Nick to get home, the two were just staring at each other? No small talk about her visit? No mentioning that Nick didn't tell Juliette she was visiting? All they did was just stare. The same Juliette just "assumed". The same suspicious Juliette we got to know, was not one bit curious why Nick wouldn't tell her that his second mom was going to visit?
(04-30-2018, 11:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]E3, starts to complain about working after hours when Hank has to rest because of bee stings
(05-01-2018, 08:56 AM)Zansy Wrote: [ -> ]Juliette is the one who *told* Hank that he needs to rest for eight hours. No, she’s not happy that Nick needs to go. But look a little closer at what she’s saying:
“You’ve been turning this no sleep thing into an art form lately.” So we’re not talking usual cop hours. We’re talking Grimm hours. - And Juliette doesn’t know that. She just sees him bury himself into work even more than usually after his aunt just passed away.
Does it matter if he is spending extra time doing police work or Grimm work. Point is, she was upset about his longer working hours. We agree on her being upset, just she doesn't know he is a Grimm. This should have been a good time to let her in his secret.
(04-30-2018, 11:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]E4, Supermarket scene, paints a past of a floosy.
(05-01-2018, 08:56 AM)Zansy Wrote: [ -> ]In the supermarket scene both Juliette and Nick mention that they made bad partner choices in the past. That happens. “You’re one to talk. I met your first girlfriend.” - “Okay, that was not chemistry. That was stupidity.” - Having two relationships before you settle down doesn’t make you a floozy. But I generally don’t like the term. Why would women have to live up to standards society doesn’t expect of men? And no, historically a man would be considered vigorous for sleeping around. While a woman would be called a loose. If she's lucky. That does need to change. And you don't seem to mind if other women are free with there sexual morals.
As you do seem to like Angelina. And that woman is in a relationship *while* she’s going on that hunt with Monroe. And Monroe is aware of this. Shouldn’t that bother you more if you’re concerned about morality? I mean, more than whether or not Juliette loved everyone she was with before she met Nick?
On some other post, I posted a list of the whole main cast in order of whom were the biggest sluts. Sean was on top and Wu was at the bottom, the rest inbetween, including Rosalee. Yea, I am old fashion. In this case Nick, Juliette and Angelina were all sluts too. Difference was, IMO, Angelina was exciting, Juliette was BORING!
The next two sections I deleted since we kinda of agreed.
(04-30-2018, 11:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]Memorable line from E6, quote:
Angelina; This is insane. Three Blutbaden in a room with one Grimm. And we're all having a little chat. We should be having dinner.
(05-01-2018, 08:56 AM)Zansy Wrote: [ -> ]Memorable for exactly why Hap is dead, yes. Because Angelina is so keen on going old school that she’s killed Orson’s brothers for sport. And she’d want to kill a Grimm who is trying to protect her brother. Before she goes and lures Monroe out on a hunt to celebrate their freedom from society’s rules, leaving her own brother unprotected after she claims she came there to do just that.
(Sorry. Angelina is rude to Rosalee when the two meet. So don't expect me to like anything about her. 
And it's so easy to point to her flaws, really. And in case you were wondering, people attacking Rosalee verbally or physically make it to the doghouse really, really quickly with me.)
Well, in my "Fan Fiction". Angelina's discretion's with her past could have been forgiven like we forgave Monroe and a bunch of other Blutbaden.
Her treating Dear Rosalee? She still had a thing for Monroe and here you have a Fuchsbau hooking up with a Blutbad. How did that work out for them, in the Wesen world later on after they get married.
Now, if Nick, in my "Fan Fiction" stepped in to replace Monroe, in Angelina's heart. No more animosities towards Rosalee from Angelina. Monroe and Rosalee live happily ever after. See, I just killed two birds with one stone.
Angelina would have caved in for the love of a Grimm and reformed, accept Monroe and Rosalee ever after, then become one of the scoobies in killing evil Wesen
(05-01-2018, 01:35 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]The point I made by referring to nurses as you added firefighters was to point out not everyone in such a relationship is a good match in the long run. Do they all fail? NO. Do they all succeed? NO. How does this reference Nick and Juliette? They were incomparable with Nick working his hours.
And yet canon claims that Nick and Adalind can make it past his working hours with two kids to look after, which I think you might agree, is much more work than just making a relationship without kids work.
(04-30-2018, 11:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]So all that time Aunt Marie was sitting there waiting on Nick to get home, the two were just staring at each other? No small talk about her visit? No mentioning that Nick didn't tell Juliette she was visiting? All they did was just stare. The same Juliette just "assumed". The same suspicious Juliette we got to know, was not one bit curious why Nick wouldn't tell her that his second mom was going to visit?
Canon tells us that Juliette didn’t ask. And that she is surprised by the revelation that Nick doesn’t know. Why she didn’t ask? I can’t tell you. I’m not the writer of this scene. Or Juliette. But yes they did talk. Aunt Marie’s been telling Juliette stories about Nick as a kid including the time he put a frog into a microwave. And other such tales. Which Juliette might’ve found more interesting than discovering why Nick didn’t tell her Aunt Marie was coming, I suppose. (Just a guess. You’re welcome to offer your own.)
(04-30-2018, 11:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]Does it matter if he is spending extra time doing police work or Grimm work. Point is, she was upset about his longer working hours. We agree on her being upset, just she doesn't know he is a Grimm. This should have been a good time to let her in his secret.
It matters that she refers to it as “lately”. As in, there is a difference between how it worked before this point, with the cop hours. And how it does now, with the added Grimm time (which would mean long nights in the trailer studying the books -and mostly by himself in Season 1- on top of being a cop). - But I do agree. Nick should’ve told her and then she could’ve told him if she can or can’t handle it. And they could’ve either tried to get a grip on it together or made a clean cut. Secrets aren’t good for relationships. Half of the problems we come across in this canon are based on someone keeping a secret from one or several others.
(04-30-2018, 11:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]On some other post, I posted a list of the whole main cast in order of whom were the biggest sluts. Sean was on top and Wu was at the bottom, the rest inbetween, including Rosalee. Yea, I am old fashion. In this case Nick, Juliette and Angelina were all sluts too. Difference was, IMO, Angelina was exciting, Juliette was BORING!
Well hey. At least you put men and women on your slut list. I’d rather not slut-shame anyone. But if we must slut-shame, it works better if everyone’s on your list. - I’m not sure I understand how you can consider someone immoral and exciting. If you condemn someone’s behavior, shouldn’t you find their behavior unappealing? (I just honestly don’t understand how that works.)
(04-30-2018, 11:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]Well, in my "Fan Fiction". Angelina's discretion's with her past could have been forgiven like we forgave Monroe and a bunch of other Blutbaden.
The problem I see with your fan fiction is... Angelina does not *want* to be forgiven. Monroe has worked on himself to change his ways because he wanted to leave that past behind him. Angelina wants no such thing.
(04-30-2018, 11:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]Her treating Dear Rosalee? She still had a thing for Monroe and here you have a Fuchsbau hooking up with a Blutbad. How did that work out for them, in the Wesen world later on after they get married.
She has a thing for the man she was with back in the days. A man Monroe no longer wants to be. And haven’t we only recently discussed that someone who’s no longer in a relationship shouldn’t be laying claims on a man? Neither Monroe nor Rosalee owes Angelina any explanation or apology for their relationship.
(04-30-2018, 11:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]Now, if Nick, in my "Fan Fiction" stepped in to replace Monroe, in Angelina's heart. No more animosities towards Rosalee from Angelina. Monroe and Rosalee live happily ever after. See, I just killed two birds with one stone.
So far so good. I’ll accept most scenarios in which Monroe and Rosalee get a happily ever after. (Which, as far as we follow them in canon, is what happens canonwise, too. At least in the altered timelime where everyone comes back to life. And in the other one they die together trying to defend each other.)
(04-30-2018, 11:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote: [ -> ]Angelina would have caved in for the love of a Grimm and reformed, accept Monroe and Rosalee ever after, then become one of the scoobies in killing evil Wesen
I’m not sure I understand this part. If Angelina had become docile and changed her ways to become a Scooby she would’ve lost the very thing you find exciting about her, wouldn’t she?
I loved the Nick/Adalind arc came about and how it ended. The wish full thinking in S1, E6, Adalind wasn’t on my Nick match-up radar. And like I said, in my Fan Fiction, the Nick/Angelina match-up would have been with a different Angelina then what we saw on the screen, hence”Fan Fiction”.
Again, my reaction to Juliette is on how she was portrayed as the character was written. Thats why I dislike the character. My guess, a more appealing Juliette would have had better communication with Nick. Many complain about Nick being secretive and not telling Juliette about his new world, and I am one of them. As for Juliette, she also lacked in communication skills. That was just one example.
The way they handled the whole Nick/Juliette relationship in the beginning and in the middle, if you applied a reality approach to them, is was doomed to fail. Putting myself in his place and my wife in her place, we wouldn’t have lasted to 42 years and counting of marriage.
Yes, For the main characters, Nick, Juliette, Monroe, Rosalee, Hank, Adalind, Sean, and Wu as my standards go, all of them were immoral, Except for Wu. I won’t mention Rosalee’s past. You know it better than I do. I have upgraded my labeling to reflect a more current outlook. I apply the word “slut” to males and females alike.
But that is the reality of “Fan Fiction”. You can make it as you want it. I would change a few more aspects of the character than just her match-up with Nick as the status quo. Including her changed relationship with Monroe and Rosalee.
Why make Angelina as at one extreme to the other. Why not something in between. After all, Angelina is an Italian name and I had a crush on an Angelina in grade school.
BTW, As another option, I would have also kept the Nick/Juliette arc in a much better scenario than what the writers gave us, in my Fan Fiction world.
I’m not going to argue about ships, I have mine, you can have yours. I’m not invested in either Nick/Juliette or Nick/Adalind beyond “if they’re happy with each other, good for them”. But what I do not understand is how you can claim that Juliette and Nick’s relationship had no realistic chance when you do not seem to have the same problem with Nick and Adalind. Have you tried applying that one to reality?
Regarding the Kehrseite to KSK switch. Nick wants to tell Juliette from 1.10 onwards. But when he asks Monroe for advice on how to do that, Monroe warns him that if you tell a Kehrseite you might either drive them insane or they’ll think that you are insane. That is not encouraging if you care about a person. You will note that he doesn’t rush to tell Hank either. And look how long they wait with Drew. - And while we’re talking not being told. Growing up, Nick wasn’t told that he’s a Grimm descendant by either his mother or his aunt. Not as a kid or when he turned 18. What if both sisters had been killed elsewhere? Nick had even more of a right and reason to know than the Kehrseite people surrounding him. And yet his aunt thought it best to wait as long as possible.
Yes, I am well aware of Rosalee’s past. I said I would defend her, not that she is flawless.
And I guess that’s the beauty of headcanons. You can have several of them, and they can all work for you. Mine work for me, too. So hey, it’s all good.
(05-02-2018, 08:51 AM)Zansy Wrote: [ -> ]I’m not going to argue about ships, I have mine, you can have yours. I’m not invested in either Nick/Juliette or Nick/Adalind beyond “if they’re happy with each other, good for them”. But what I do not understand is how you can claim that Juliette and Nick’s relationship had no realistic chance when you do not seem to have the same problem with Nick and Adalind. Have you tried applying that one to reality?
Regarding the Kehrseite to KSK switch. Nick wants to tell Juliette from 1.10 onwards. But when he asks Monroe for advice on how to do that, Monroe warns him that if you tell a Kehrseite you might either drive them insane or they’ll think that you are insane. That is not encouraging if you care about a person. You will note that he doesn’t rush to tell Hank either. And look how long they wait with Drew. - And while we’re talking not being told. Growing up, Nick wasn’t told that he’s a Grimm descendant by either his mother or his aunt. Not as a kid or when he turned 18. What if both sisters had been killed elsewhere? Nick had even more of a right and reason to know than the Kehrseite people surrounding him. And yet his aunt thought it best to wait as long as possible.
Yes, I am well aware of Rosalee’s past. I said I would defend her, not that she is flawless.
And I guess that’s the beauty of headcanons. You can have several of them, and they can all work for you. Mine work for me, too. So hey, it’s all good.
I never visioned the Nick/Adalind match up. When it happened, she was more accepting of her dilemmas. Yes, she was born a Hex and got it back. Lest not forget, Nick was the one to take it away.
The change she accepted was to become an unplanned mother again . She accepted/adopted her new condition that was unplanned. Once the change took place, her love relationship with Nick was with no doubt, also 100%.
Juliette was always suspicious, including before the fire breading Wesen and the Muse exposure. Suspicious of the last guy on earth to suspect. Lets be real, the flocking bitch refused to marry the guy. I consider that a failed relationship, not a prediction.
When her changes came, she did not adapt well and IMO, she never really took ownership of her actions. Adalind took full responsibility for her actions. Juliette's half-ass contrition in Season 6 was still admitting her actions as another person.
This is not directed to you but to the wack-doos that consider Adalind attempts to kill his aunt just as bad or worse to Juliette's actions delivering his mother's head in a box. RIDICULOUS!
Keeping the secret from Juliette, Hank and Wu, how did that work out? The same reasons you point out that his mother and aunt kept from him, I point out as a reason to be upfront. He almost lost Juliette to insanity or dead if she wasn't cured by the prince's kiss. Hank and Wu, did not go insane after they were exposed to the truth but almost did when kept in the dark.
But they still have the history that they do. We were talking realistic, not does it work out in canon. What they have in canon, good on them. If everyone’s happy in the fold by the end of the show, that’s what happens with most fairy tales. So yay for everyone. And really. It’s okay if you don’t want to go into it. I meant it when I said that I’m not really invested.
Juliette was suspicious of and refused to marry a man who wasn’t honest with her, good on her. He should’ve been honest first. And asked her to marry him if she could live with the truth. Wrong. Order.
I agreed with you that he should’ve shared his secret in post #33. I’m just pointing out that it’s not an easy one to share. We were talking about whether or not he would’ve told Juliette more easily if they communicated better. And I pointed out that neither Nick nor his aunt and mother seem at all keen to share it with him. Does that mean that Nick had a bad relationship with his aunt? Or his mother? No. For all we’ve seen they have a very tender and loving relationship. It just isn’t a simple truth to share. That said, Nick should have told everyone it affected, just as he himself should have been told so he would know the life ahead of him. But the writers obviously had no interest in him being upfront about it. Where would be the drama in that? Imagine if Hank had simply refused to eat those cookies.
(05-03-2018, 12:50 PM)Zansy Wrote: [ -> ]But they still have the history that they do. We were talking realistic, not does it work out in canon. What they have in canon, good on them. If everyone’s happy in the fold by the end of the show, that’s what happens with most fairy tales. So yay for everyone. And really. It’s okay if you don’t want to go into it. I meant it when I said that I’m not really invested.
Juliette was suspicious of and refused to marry a man who wasn’t honest with her, good on her. He should’ve been honest first. And asked her to marry him if she could live with the truth. Wrong. Order.
I agreed with you that he should’ve shared his secret in post #33. I’m just pointing out that it’s not an easy one to share. We were talking about whether or not he would’ve told Juliette more easily if they communicated better. And I pointed out that neither Nick nor his aunt and mother seem at all keen to share it with him. Does that mean that Nick had a bad relationship with his aunt? Or his mother? No. For all we’ve seen they have a very tender and loving relationship. It just isn’t a simple truth to share. That said, Nick should have told everyone it affected, just as he himself should have been told so he would know the life ahead of him. But the writers obviously had no interest in him being upfront about it. Where would be the drama in that? Imagine if Hank had simply refused to eat those cookies.
I always claimed how their whole predicament in their split, after she became a Hex to Nick keeping secrets. If I work backwards, in my head, this is how I follow it.
She ended up being a Hex because Nick lost his Grimm and she got Hex'ed for helping him get his Grimm back.
He lost his Grimm as a result of Adalind's revenge of Nick helping or being involved in Diana's kidnapping.
The whole Diana arc was a by-product of Adalind sexually satisfying his Royal Horny-ness, Sean's infatuation of Juliette. If he had no sex drive for Juliette, Sean would have never re-bedded Adalind. He had been there, done that. No Diana.
Sean was infatuated to Juliette because he was the only prince in Portland capable of awakening Juliette out of her comma. Which he did with the cleansing ritual before "The Kiss".
Juliette was put in a coma by Adalind cat's scratch Magique.
BINGO, IMO, this is the vital turning point. If Juliette had known about the Wesen world early on, she would have been aware of Adalind's Wesen profession and she would have taken more precautions or even refused to see her cat.
Now some like to peruse the blame Nick for her becoming a Hex to get his Grimm back. IMO, that was a decision made by both Nick and Juliette. If they want to blame just Nick, then they need to go back to S1. This is where Nick was the only one to decide on his actions, by not telling her his Grimm/Wesen new found universe.
For the most part I agree with your assessment. But it's also a ping-pong game between Sean/Adalind and Nick. If they'd simply left Nick alone and allowed him to be a Grimm in his own right, Nick's friends would have still needed to know. But Sean's the one who makes Adalind put that obsession spell on Hank. (Adalind wants to go after Nick himself, not his friends.) That's why Nick takes away Adalind's Hex. And that's why Juliette gets to meet Mystique. - That's why I said "Imagine if Hank had simply refused to eat those cookies."
I think the list on what could've potentially worked out better for them is a LOT longer and involves more characters. But the problem is... why would the writers want anything to work out well? The string of problems that arise is aimed at causing drama. So I'd say the writers got exactly what they wanted.
Nick was to blame for Juliette becoming a hexenbiest. Even he admitted it was his fault.