11-14-2020, 11:56 PM
Renard failed totally at turning Nick into a minion. There wasn't a single instance when he was able to get Nick to back him at something without first having to justify what he was doing.
11-14-2020, 11:56 PM
Renard failed totally at turning Nick into a minion. There wasn't a single instance when he was able to get Nick to back him at something without first having to justify what he was doing.
(11-14-2020, 10:43 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: Renard recruiting Nick to his side wasn't as successful as he hoped. Even the family he tried to impress with that claim didn't buy all his posturing. At some point Erik got his hands on Nick in S2. Renard wanted the Grimm to work FOR him (probably similarly to the old days of Grimms being subservient to Royals) but in the end, he settled for one that worked beside him because he had no control over Nick. They worked as allies until Renard turned coat with BC and found himself on the outs altogether after that. Renard had total control over Nick. He could rid himself of Nick whenever he wanted. He was the one who fired Nick. The scoobies were the ones that put together a plan to get Nick back on the force. The plan worked and Nick was back on the job. However, Renard threatened him if he ever went against Renard again. If Nick were so in control, he would have told Renard point blank that he had no control. Nick did not argue back. He did as he was told. R Renard had plenty of irons in the fire and hired guns to handle his various interests. Nick was just one of the irons in the fire. Nick wanted to be a Grimm and the only way for him to do that was to do as he was told.
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As a police Captain he had the power to fire the detective, but that power dynamic was very independent of the Grimm and a half Zauberbiest. Disregarding the latter, doesn't change that Renard had zero control over Nick outside of his duties as a cop. He tried to tug on that string when Nick exerted his independence and opposed him directly and that immediately backfired on him because Nick played him.
Whatever control he exercised over Nick, it was his cop duties, typical of any detective and his coptain on the many other cop shows on television without the side of a fantasy/sci-fi plot. Beyond that, he didn't tell Nick how to grimm, who he went after, whether or not to kill them etc. Again, there's a clear line of division in their dynamics as police officers vs grimm and royal. Him having authority in the former didn't mean squat in the other. He wasn't trying to recruit a police detective to loard it over his Royal family in Vienna, he was trying to recruit a Grimm and he failed, hence it didn't take long for his family to realised he was just blowing smoke. They knew he was trying to get himself a Grimm but quickly realised, no he didn't. He got himself a cop who worked independently as a Grimm. I'm not denying Renard power or reach, I'm disputing your opinion that he controlled Nick the Grimm when we saw from day one that he had no such influence over him. They worked together for most of the show but that's as far as that grimm/royal relationship went. No one had power over anyone, just skeletons they hoped to used one day when the other stepped out of line. Renard agreed to bring Nick back only because he was facing jail time for Rachel's murder, and Nick through Adalind's compliance offered to be Renard's alibi. Fortunately for him, he backed out last minute, forcing Nick and his friends to go for plan B, the twinning spell. Nick got back on the job through his and his friends outsmarting Renard. Renard could make all the threats he wanted, it doesn't mean Nick rolled over and took it. Nick has always worked with his friends to solve the problems he faced from day one, nothing about what happened with the twinning spell is different or belittling towards him because he was fighting against Renard. It's not about Nick being in control but more like being independent of Renard. Nick wanted to remain a cop, Renard could no more dictate Nick being a Grimm anymore that Nick could dictate Renard being a royal prince. Having control means having power to direct or restrain the actions of someone directly, Renard only had so much of that through other avenues like Nick's job but never directly over Nick, the person, which is what he wanted from the start but never truly achieved it. Renard got played after his attempt to take over Portland with BC backing him failed. On the rooftop they physically fought and came to an impasse, for someone who had legitimate authority over Nick through his day job, he sure did back down to welcome back a Grimm that not only didn't respect him as a person but didn't respect his position as a royal prince and a police Captain. Nick got his job back on his own terms because he forced Renard's hand after Renard failed to have Nick's arrest stick, and his attempt to kill him using BC and the police force came to naught. So why would someone who tried to have Nick killed suddenly want him back on the force unless he was backed into a corner and lost or at the most, realised he couldn't win against the man he tried to murder? Whatever your view of these two, it doesn't match how it played out on screen.
11-15-2020, 03:57 AM
It's pretty much impossible to fire a cop in an American city unless you have a mountain of evidence of wrongdoing and you are squeaky clean yourself.
The abbreviated s06 doesn't show us much of the working dynamic between Renard and Nick, Hank and Wu, but considering the fact that Nick and Hank made off with all of Renard's files and his computer and he knew they probably had enough evidence to pin several murder and conspiracy charges on him he probably just avoided them as much as the job permitted. (11-15-2020, 03:57 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: It's pretty much impossible to fire a cop in an American city unless you have a mountain of evidence of wrongdoing and you are squeaky clean yourself. The whole scenario of Grimm is based on an impossibility. I've been told often enough that it's a fantasy. As for making off with Renard's computer (I assume this was a laptop), Nick wouldn't be so stupid to assume that it is the only place where Renard would store information.
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(11-15-2020, 08:30 AM)irukandji Wrote:No it doesn't. It's not about earning a living. Being a cop already does that for him. Just as being a librarian did for Marie and working with the Resistance did for Kelly before disappearing with Diana. I'm talking about being free to make his own decisions as a Grimm, how he dealt with wesen independent of his actual job where he was under authority and for a short while followed until he began breaking free even of that boundary in persuit of his grimm duties or personal gains.(11-15-2020, 01:33 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: He got himself a cop who worked independently as a Grimm. As a Grimm, he was answerable to no one, it's probably why he never joined HW, as they would have more of a say over what he actually did as a Grimm. We saw it with Trubel. End of S5 she even disobeyed whatever directive she was given to help him in going after Renard and BC. He's killed people, sometimes for vengeance. How much more independent can one get than that? He's never been held to account for his actions, particular by the very law he's supposed to uphold under whose authority he worked as a detective because his higher ups outside of dubious and criminally inclined Renard are oblivious to Nick moonlighting as a Grimm going after wesen. Renard tried to control Nick through his police job not his Grimm lifestyle. Not that he didn't try, he wanted to but there, he had zero control over Nick, nobody did. Nick did whatever he wanted, how ever he wanted, when he wanted. He worked closely with his friends to achieve HIS goals, in this regard, he was an independent Grimm, under no one's authority.
11-15-2020, 10:32 AM
(11-15-2020, 08:32 AM)irukandji Wrote:A smart person would make copies and not keep them in his office desk drawer but the writers dumbed down Renard. The only card he had to play was stolen right from under his nose. He was left with an impressionable Diana, whom he tried to influence against Nick by using her mother's wellbeing and even that didn't work.(11-15-2020, 03:57 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: It's pretty much impossible to fire a cop in an American city unless you have a mountain of evidence of wrongdoing and you are squeaky clean yourself.
11-15-2020, 12:00 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2020, 12:08 PM by FaceInTheCrowd.)
The point of taking Renard's data was not about depriving him of it. It was about having it to use against him and whatever was left of BC. Why HW didn't just disappear Renard to some secret prison and be done with him was a major s06 plot hole, but I suppose some pointy headed bureaucrat probably thought he could be useful for something where he was. Maybe since the cancellation of Grimm the WH is has him arranging all the tear gas that's being fired downtown.
(11-15-2020, 10:32 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: A smart person would make copies and not keep them in his office desk drawer but the writers dumbed down Renard. The only card he had to play was stolen right from under his nose. He was left with an impressionable Diana, whom he tried to influence against Nick by using her mother's wellbeing and even that didn't work. I don't think they dumbed him down at all because, see, while Nick might have/might not have gotten anything, Renard has had the goods on him all along. It's the reason why Renard is still not only able to threaten Nick, but carry out his threat if Nick misbehaves. Nick believes him. It's obvious.
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