Rolek Porter how did he live under the wesen radar

[New Guy]

I think a theme touched on throughout the show was wesen believing Grimms were the boogeyman and couldn't exactly be talked out of killing them.

Exactly, and in my opinion nowhere was this more glaringly blatant than in the case of the character of that wayward teenager, Trubel. The series showed her as some kind of inoffensive Oliver Twist turned Rambo type of character who was really just trying to eek out a living on her own, but with no real skills to do so. Shunned by all around her, she was constantly chased by wesen for no real reason. But then she encounters Nick, becomes enlightened with that special knowledge no one would ever tell her, and all of the sudden has a real purpose. Yeah, right.

I wonder how Rolek would have treated Trubel.

Iruk,
How can it be? I must agree!
N G

[jsgrimm45]

It would be unimaginable to think that wesen in Portland aren't walking around just being normal people. Nick didn't shy away from walking around in public either. If they didn't woge, they would have passed Nick and he them without incident. Rolek didn't exhibit himself to be a grimm so there'd be no need for him to exist under the radar either. Any wesen passing him by would take him for just an ordinary human and he them as well. He had to fight some, no doubt, but that just comes with them finding out he's a grimm.

Nick's presence as combination cop and grimm seemed to put woged wesen on a death track. Rolek's presence may have affected woged wesen differently. No doubt some wesen would be prepared to fight Rolek. But, after woging *and* seeing he wasn't a threat, would they simply leave him alone? I think so.

Let's say you are walking in the woods. You meet a hungry wolf or bear who is gowling and showing its fangs . Do you wait to see if it attacks or do you take your rifle and kill it? Wessen are taught from early childhood that the only good Grimm is a dead Grimm. Bud had no reason to think he would be attacked by Nick while fixing his fridge, yet he ran and told his friends there was a Grimm in town, they drove by the house and fled when Nick looked their way. Truble never said the wessen looked at her, said "Oh, how nice, a Grimm, having a nice day in our little town?" No, it was "Yell Grimm and try to kill me". Rolek would have had the same experience, no one waits until the Grimm is swinging his sword to say "Opps, guess I should have tried to kill her faster."

Good point don't think we ever seen Nick attack first. Liked the bear and wolf point. Now think that if we went into the forest and as human couldn't see the bear or wolf, would we want someone with us who could?

[eric]

I'm trying to understand this exchange. Why is that exactly why you disagree with his analogy?

Here's what I see with eric's analogy; wesen who woge automatically present a deadly threat. Nick, grimm hunter, is justified in killing said wesen. There's no room for choices. That's it, plain and simple.

I don't view all wesen as this huge threat that cannot be dealt with. If that was the case, then there shouldn't be any humans walking around Portland. In my opinion, Rolek didn't have to exist under the radar because I don't believe he viewed wesen as animals. On the other hand, I have to give wesen humanity that animals don't have. So in their behalf, I believe they would not simply see Rolek as a killer. Both species would be intelligent enough to recognize the humanity within one another and exercise the discretion that comes with humanity. That does not mean I'm saying every single wesen is epitome of grace and goodness any more than every single grimm is the poster child for grace and goodness. There are always going to be a**holes on both sides.

As for the rattlesnake, it's one thing to kill an animal that is actively trying to attack. It's another thing entirely to watch a snake retreating and kill it anyway.

First off, Nick did not hunt and kill all wessen. He was hunting and trying to ARREST wessen who killed both wessen and humans. If he was just a hunter the entire bear family(including Dad), the chef, the bank robbers would all have been dead within a day. Monroe wanted Nick to Grimm up with the chef, Nick figured how to arrest him instead. The bank robbers could have been written up as "killed while resisting arrest", Nick would have been hailed as a hero. When wessen saw Nick was a Grimm, they said "Grimm he's going to kill me". In the episode about the kidnappers, the one who was arrested said that in front of all the cops-turns out he had other problems to worry about. About rattlesnakes, I have never killed a snake who was not poisonous.Brown snakes, black snakes, king snakes(grew up in the country) I leave alone. Rattlers, cotton mouths, water moccasin, I know those are dangerous, if not to me right now, maybe someone else down the line. I take it you have never met up with s 6' foot rattler-you would probably want a cannon then. Unlike wessen, I can tell a dangerous snake/grimm from a harmless one. When Truble discovered all wessen were no going to kill her, she took a more relaxed attitude about them. How Rolex managed to live that long is a mystery to me. If he thought Nick was a bad grimm he probably would not have given him the trunk. Finally, Nick did not attack to kill as soon as he saw a random woge. Name an exception, please.

[irukandji]

First off, Nick did not hunt and kill all wessen. He was hunting and trying to ARREST wessen who killed both wessen and humans. If he was just a hunter the entire bear family(including Dad), the chef, the bank robbers would all have been dead within a day. Monroe wanted Nick to Grimm up with the chef, Nick figured how to arrest him instead. The bank robbers could have been written up as "killed while resisting arrest", Nick would have been hailed as a hero. When wessen saw Nick was a Grimm, they said "Grimm he's going to kill me". In the episode about the kidnappers, the one who was arrested said that in front of all the cops-turns out he had other problems to worry about:

You're missing the point about what I am saying. You were comparing the attacking boa with wesen. In that type of scenario there are no choices. An attacking boa must be killed. What I am saying is that I don't believe all wesen are out to attack grimms, and so the only choice the grimm has is to kill the wesen.

[eric]

First off, Nick did not hunt and kill all wessen. He was hunting and trying to ARREST wessen who killed both wessen and humans. If he was just a hunter the entire bear family(including Dad), the chef, the bank robbers would all have been dead within a day. Monroe wanted Nick to Grimm up with the chef, Nick figured how to arrest him instead. The bank robbers could have been written up as "killed while resisting arrest", Nick would have been hailed as a hero. When wessen saw Nick was a Grimm, they said "Grimm he's going to kill me". In the episode about the kidnappers, the one who was arrested said that in front of all the cops-turns out he had other problems to worry about:

You're missing the point about what I am saying. You were comparing the attacking boa with wesen. In that type of scenario there are no choices. An attacking boa must be killed. What I am saying is that I don't believe all wesen are out to attack grimms, and so the only choice the grimm has is to kill the wesen.

I didn't say the boa is attacking you, I said it got in your boat, maybe to catch a few rays, what do you do? Admire the skin pattern or kill it--honestly now, really? And don't say jump in the water, there are alligators there. I say the wessen have only two choices--fight or flight. Grimms have the advantage that the wessen fear them, all the way down to the bone.

[Hell Rell]

In order to continue this debate, I think we really need to see some example on the show where Nick killed a wesen without provocation. That was thrown out there earlier so there needs to be some proof that anyone can provide if that's true.

[FaceInTheCrowd]

In Nick's case, the wilderness analogy works a lot better if the wesen are the hikers panicking when they see the snake. The ones who survive the encounter are the ones who are smart enough not to try attacking.

[irukandji]

I didn't say the boa is attacking you, I said it got in your boat, maybe to catch a few rays, what do you do? Admire the skin pattern or kill it--honestly now, really? And don't say jump in the water, there are alligators there. I say the wessen have only two choices--fight or flight. Grimms have the advantage that the wessen fear them, all the way down to the bone.

Okay, this is what I get out of your analogy. Person in boat=grimm. Boa=wesen.

The boa, according to this analogy, has three choices. It can attack, it can simply sun itself, or it can go back to whence it came. Right?

The person, on the other hand, has no choice. You've removed the option of escape. I don't count watching the boa sun itself because the boat is the person's territory. Said boa has come into the territory and poses a threat. The only option available to the person is to defend their boat against the invader.

A grimm may be put into the position where the only method of defense is to kill. I'm not saying that could never happen. I'm just saying that I believe there have been encounters between wesen and grimms that didn't result in death or injury. Instead both were intelligent enough to assess the futility of death and decided to simply leave one another alone.

---

In order to continue this debate, I think we really need to see some example on the show where Nick killed a wesen without provocation. That was thrown out there earlier so there needs to be some proof that anyone can provide if that's true.

Is this question in regard to something I wrote?

[Hell Rell]

I didn't say the boa is attacking you, I said it got in your boat, maybe to catch a few rays, what do you do? Admire the skin pattern or kill it--honestly now, really? And don't say jump in the water, there are alligators there. I say the wessen have only two choices--fight or flight. Grimms have the advantage that the wessen fear them, all the way down to the bone.

Okay, this is what I get out of your analogy. Person in boat=grimm. Boa=wesen.

The boa, according to this analogy, has three choices. It can attack, it can simply sun itself, or it can go back to whence it came. Right?

The person, on the other hand, has no choice. You've removed the option of escape. I don't count watching the boa sun itself because the boat is the person's territory. Said boa has come into the territory and poses a threat. The only option available to the person is to defend their boat against the invader.

A grimm may be put into the position where the only method of defense is to kill. I'm not saying that could never happen. I'm just saying that I believe there have been encounters between wesen and grimms that didn't result in death or injury. Instead both were intelligent enough to assess the futility of death and decided to simply leave one another alone.

---

In order to continue this debate, I think we really need to see some example on the show where Nick killed a wesen without provocation. That was thrown out there earlier so there needs to be some proof that anyone can provide if that's true.

Is this question in regard to something I wrote?

I think he was describing Grimms as the Boa rather than the wesen. He was explaining how wesen see Grimms and why they attack them.

As for the question, it was in response to you saying:

---

Here's what I see with Eric's analogy; wesen who woge automatically present a deadly threat. Nick, grimm hunter, is justified in killing said wesen. There's no room for choices. That's it, plain and simple.

It could be that you were saying that as an analysis of his analogy rather than your own opinion so I'll retract what I said if that's case.

If not, then I made a request for proof. That really isn't what he said in his analogy because he was talking about how wesen see Grimms.

[eric]

I didn't say the boa is attacking you, I said it got in your boat, maybe to catch a few rays, what do you do? Admire the skin pattern or kill it--honestly now, really? And don't say jump in the water, there are alligators there. I say the wessen have only two choices--fight or flight. Grimms have the advantage that the wessen fear them, all the way down to the bone.

Okay, this is what I get out of your analogy. Person in boat=grimm. Boa=wesen.

The boa, according to this analogy, has three choices. It can attack, it can simply sun itself, or it can go back to whence it came. Right?

The person, on the other hand, has no choice. You've removed the option of escape. I don't count watching the boa sun itself because the boat is the person's territory. Said boa has come into the territory and poses a threat. The only option available to the person is to defend their boat against the invader.

A grimm may be put into the position where the only method of defense is to kill. I'm not saying that could never happen. I'm just saying that I believe there have been encounters between wesen and grimms that didn't result in death or injury. Instead both were intelligent enough to assess the futility of death and decided to simply leave one another alone.

---

In order to continue this debate, I think we really need to see some example on the show where Nick killed a wesen without provocation. That was thrown out there earlier so there needs to be some proof that anyone can provide if that's true.

Is this question in regard to something I wrote?

Okay, I apologize, I am sorry, I failed to be clear in my writing. I will try to be more precise in the future. The wolf in the woods, the boa in the boat I meant to be a Grimm. "You" in the woods and the boat and all the wessen we saw in the show were wessen who had just met their childhood monsters who would kill them if they woged. My belief is that any sane wessen either fled or tried to kill the GRIMM on the spot before he/she could kill them. I still do not understand how Rolex could have lived to his advanced age without upsetting some folks in his area. There, Iruk, am I being clear enough, or do I have to try again? Waiting for reply.