Mop
Martin never said he was okay with the change. He actually never gave an opinion about it at all. Martin only talked about why he felt the need to include sexual violence in his story. He never addressed Sansa's scene because he hasn't really talked about the show in a couple of years. People take what he said as him okaying the decision but he neither okayed nor condemned it. It was more of a clever sidestep that doesn't address her story in the show at all. Martin just says the show is the show and the books are the books. His book editor actually criticized some of the changes the show made like Barristan being killed by the Harpies and the way they handled Loras but this was a couple of weeks before UUU aired. Martin was asked about what five characters the show should have kept and Jeyne Poole, the girl Sansa replaced, was one of them.
Also, Martin has pretty much nothing to do with the series over the last couple of years. He wrote an episode per season for the first four but nothing for the last two and I get the impression he isn't really involved. Martin has made it clear he has no say in what goes on the screen. There was some off-hand account about Martin making an appearance at a con not too long after that Sansa scene aired. It was said that he doesn't know what the show is doing with Sansa. He released an excerpt for one of Sansa's chapters before season 5 aired and read that same excerpt the same week her rape aired.
Others who have read the books can answer this better than I can but the ending cannot be the same. The journey was changed far too much to have the same ending. It would be way too difficult to have the same ending if this much was changed.
I'm surprised to hear that about Tyrion. I hear he is a much darker character in the books. He appears to have become a paragon of virtue on the show. They mainly write scenes for him to be a wise-cracking and "funny" special snowflake on the show.
We knew Tyrion could be trusted but we also knew Ramsay was an overpowered psychopath but that didn't stop Littlefinger and Sansa from thinking it was a good idea for her to marry him. Forgive me for not buying into the "I'm going to marry my family's killers for revenge" mantra. That's just as bad as the whole "let's avenge Oberyn by murdering his family" spiel. Apparently, kinslaying isn't as big of a taboo as I thought it was since it's known that Ramsay, Euron, Ellaria, and the Sand Snakes did it and no one bats an eye. Not only that, they get people to follow them.
When has Sansa not been in an abusive relationship? She was in one with Joffrey but also Cersei, Lysa, and the one she has with LF can be classified as one as well. She had four seasons of trauma to draw from already. I would've fully believed her getting to the point of retaking Winterfell without ever marrying Ramsay. I don't need to explain again how it makes no sense but I will if someone tries to tell me it does.
Sansa wanted Winterfell back and the Boltons ousted. They betrayed her family and took over her home. I don't think she needed to be raped by one to have that motivation.
I don't see why the details shouldn't matter. They could have the best concept in the world but it would still suck if the details are as sloppy as this plot turned out to be. Sansa just escaped being a hostage of her family's killers but she decides to do it again thinking it can turn out better? Was this supposed to show her attempting to play the game by voluntarily putting herself at their mercy, help legitimize their claim to the north, and possibly giving them heirs? Sansa did do it voluntarily because the showrunners are on record saying that she made a choice to do it which makes her dumber and more naive than season 1 Sansa. But she's suddenly "empowered" in season 6 with no development so that makes it okay. For the record, I think her season 6 arc was absurd as well.
Sansa's rape scene had a few other purposes. Mainly that they knew it would create buzz, cement Ramsay's status as uber-villain, and to use it as a catalyst for getting Theon back which led to the finale. They just weren't expecting the huge backlash they got and using it for Theon's development was rightly called out as making a terrible plot worse by fridging Sansa in the process. It can't be denied that Theon gained more from this plot than Sansa did. She wasn't supposed to be there in the first place and this was Theon's story to begin with so that was bound to happen.
(11-25-2016, 11:05 AM)irukandji Wrote: I have watched the series from episode one. I probably never would have watched it had my son not encouraged me to do so. I love the series and can't wait for it to return for its final season.
I am currently reading book 4 of the series. I didn't think there was a lot of difference between the series and the books to the point where I'm at. There is a difference now, because Ramsay is planning on marrying Arya rather than Sansa.
After the infamous Sansa got raped scene, I was looking up articles on Game of Thrones to see how the series was going to end since the last two books have not been published yet. I was surprised instead to find more than a few articles describing fans' outrage at the rape and how this completely differed from the book. In one of the articles, Martin himself was apparently okay with the change.
I also found that Martin had collaborated with HBO in developing an ending for the series, which implied the ending may not be the same as the books.
I admit, I am among the viewers who like Tyrion. He is my favorite. I haven't read anything in the books so far that makes him different from the screen version with one exception and that is his scar. In the book, it is horrible. On the screen, he still has his nose. I would have liked to have seen HBO not cop out on that detail.
As for Tyrion coming on to the scene and Dany believing him right from the start, I really didn't find that so hard to fathom. Jorah became a trusted advisor and protector. Ser Barristan saved her life and also became a trusted advisor and protector.
I have to say I never questioned why Tyrion didn't get touched by the stonemen. I just assumed that Jorah was such a good protector, he could protect anyone from just about anything. I didn't question Dany's ability in trusting Tyrion because we knew him as a character who could be trusted. I simply assumed like Jorah and Barristan, Dany was able to tell sincerity from him as welll as she's able to detect lying in others.
Martin never said he was okay with the change. He actually never gave an opinion about it at all. Martin only talked about why he felt the need to include sexual violence in his story. He never addressed Sansa's scene because he hasn't really talked about the show in a couple of years. People take what he said as him okaying the decision but he neither okayed nor condemned it. It was more of a clever sidestep that doesn't address her story in the show at all. Martin just says the show is the show and the books are the books. His book editor actually criticized some of the changes the show made like Barristan being killed by the Harpies and the way they handled Loras but this was a couple of weeks before UUU aired. Martin was asked about what five characters the show should have kept and Jeyne Poole, the girl Sansa replaced, was one of them.
Also, Martin has pretty much nothing to do with the series over the last couple of years. He wrote an episode per season for the first four but nothing for the last two and I get the impression he isn't really involved. Martin has made it clear he has no say in what goes on the screen. There was some off-hand account about Martin making an appearance at a con not too long after that Sansa scene aired. It was said that he doesn't know what the show is doing with Sansa. He released an excerpt for one of Sansa's chapters before season 5 aired and read that same excerpt the same week her rape aired.
Others who have read the books can answer this better than I can but the ending cannot be the same. The journey was changed far too much to have the same ending. It would be way too difficult to have the same ending if this much was changed.
I'm surprised to hear that about Tyrion. I hear he is a much darker character in the books. He appears to have become a paragon of virtue on the show. They mainly write scenes for him to be a wise-cracking and "funny" special snowflake on the show.
We knew Tyrion could be trusted but we also knew Ramsay was an overpowered psychopath but that didn't stop Littlefinger and Sansa from thinking it was a good idea for her to marry him. Forgive me for not buying into the "I'm going to marry my family's killers for revenge" mantra. That's just as bad as the whole "let's avenge Oberyn by murdering his family" spiel. Apparently, kinslaying isn't as big of a taboo as I thought it was since it's known that Ramsay, Euron, Ellaria, and the Sand Snakes did it and no one bats an eye. Not only that, they get people to follow them.
(11-25-2016, 01:49 PM)syscrash Wrote: What I found is people focus on the detail instead on the concept. It is not the details of what happens. The actions are only meant to define the character. Take the Sansa rape scene. The purpose was to show she was in an abusive realationship. They could have used any number of actions and it would not has changed the story.
When has Sansa not been in an abusive relationship? She was in one with Joffrey but also Cersei, Lysa, and the one she has with LF can be classified as one as well. She had four seasons of trauma to draw from already. I would've fully believed her getting to the point of retaking Winterfell without ever marrying Ramsay. I don't need to explain again how it makes no sense but I will if someone tries to tell me it does.
Sansa wanted Winterfell back and the Boltons ousted. They betrayed her family and took over her home. I don't think she needed to be raped by one to have that motivation.
I don't see why the details shouldn't matter. They could have the best concept in the world but it would still suck if the details are as sloppy as this plot turned out to be. Sansa just escaped being a hostage of her family's killers but she decides to do it again thinking it can turn out better? Was this supposed to show her attempting to play the game by voluntarily putting herself at their mercy, help legitimize their claim to the north, and possibly giving them heirs? Sansa did do it voluntarily because the showrunners are on record saying that she made a choice to do it which makes her dumber and more naive than season 1 Sansa. But she's suddenly "empowered" in season 6 with no development so that makes it okay. For the record, I think her season 6 arc was absurd as well.
Sansa's rape scene had a few other purposes. Mainly that they knew it would create buzz, cement Ramsay's status as uber-villain, and to use it as a catalyst for getting Theon back which led to the finale. They just weren't expecting the huge backlash they got and using it for Theon's development was rightly called out as making a terrible plot worse by fridging Sansa in the process. It can't be denied that Theon gained more from this plot than Sansa did. She wasn't supposed to be there in the first place and this was Theon's story to begin with so that was bound to happen.