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+--- Thread: Was the Nick/Juliette break-up & the Nick/Adalind mate-up planned from the start? (/Thread-Was-the-Nick-Juliette-break-up-the-Nick-Adalind-mate-up-planned-from-the-start)
RE: Was the Nick/Juliette break-up & the Nick/Adalind mate-up planned from the start? - dicappatore - 02-06-2018
(02-06-2018, 12:17 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: When he pulled out his gun, it was because he thought she was Adalind. From the beginning Nick was confronted with the knowledge that he "made" her into that hexenbiest. It's not difficult to attribute that his turning aside. He felt guilty. Regardless both Nick and Juliette handled things badly after she turned
rp, you just exposed one of the "TRICKS" that some use to change the meanings of "FACTS". Making a false opinion and claim it as a fact. (Oh My God, He pulled out a gun on the love of his life is proof he wanted to kill the Hexenbiest). You know, I know, and a few of us also know it. He believed it was Adalind as Juliette again. Once he was convinced it was Juliette, telling him of his failed proposal, he holstered the gun.
That is exactly why Nick pulled out his gun. Gees, even Juliette knew it. But this is what Nick haters do. Thanks You for exposing the truth and the miss-interpretations of what is clearly not what they claim.
(02-06-2018, 10:25 AM)eric Wrote:(02-06-2018, 09:41 AM)dicappatore Wrote:A long and wonderful marriage has taught me that if something really big and bad happens(and it has several times in real life) and you decide to leave in a huff and stay gone for any length of time, things go south from there. I have always said that I would have slumped down on the couch and tried to start to begin to try to talk it out, not look disgusted and walk out and spend the night somewhere else. Nick was not the only detective in Portland. If I get a call from work saying they need me to come in and I have more important problems at home, I tell them I'm sick or have taken a little trip and can't come in--hope my boss is not on this forum(02-06-2018, 08:54 AM)eric Wrote: I do not see her reluctance to tell Nick about her hex change as a lack of trust so much as an abundance of history. She asked him something along the line about Adeline not being a hex, he said "whats wrong with one less hex". Her dream about beheading was spot on, based on his history. When she did woge in front of him, he drew his gun, went into shock, then left for the night. Her look said "well, that relationship sure is down the drain". He comes back the next day, says lets work this out, maybe there is a cure(she needs to be "cured"-her new condition can maybe be changed, he sees her as diseased, she woges again and he turns away and looks totally disgusted with her, even he had seen several hexs woge and he didn't have trouble looking at them. Can't say I blame him, a real shocker, but how's a girl supposed to take all that?
But eric, she was rejecting her condition for weeks before she disclosed of her situation to Nick. My question to you is, did she go to Renard to express her jubilation of becoming a hex? or to find a cure/reversal. Did she go to Henrietta to get books to study her new found powers or was it to cure/reverse her condition?
Some how, it was fine for her to reject what she was becoming for weeks in advance. Yet, you and a few, and I have to stress, "A Few", others expected for Nick to brush it off as just another evening with someone breaking in the house. What did you expect Nick to reply to her, after divulging she is now a Hex by "oh really? Ok, whats for dinner?
How come you can accept her own rejection of becoming a Hex for weeks, yet expect for Nick to accept her instantly. OK, so it took him a day and a night to accept her. Then, somehow, Nick suggesting to look for a cure equated to rejection, for doing the exact same thing she was trying to do for weeks. Just one more examples of Nick being treated unfairly for the situation.
Then to accuse Nick and company of rejecting her from the start, as a monster, is another opinion made into a facts. She knew how resourceful they were as a unit. She was involved in many situations with them in resolving what seemed to be unsolvable. Did she seek their advice? NOPE! She never did, but did hold Nick accountable for trying.
The gang never turned against her from the start. They turned against her after she rejected Nick and any attempts to help her and devious actions against them. They were reacting to her demise as Juliette and her welcoming reaction to becoming a Hex.
They were "Reactive", not "Pro-Active". Nick tried to be pro-active. It resulted of her walking out on him. Just one more fact turned into, Nick walking out on her!
If there is anyone to blame for Nick and Co. to look at her and treat her like a monster, it would be Juliette, after she became one.. If you discover you have a dread disease you may not mention it to your better half until you meet with a specialist, when that doesn't work you fest up and hope for some understanding. I never understood how Nick could come home, find a body on the floor and accept "he tripped" and just dump the body, no questions asked. Neither one of them was blameless for what happened, neither of them handled it we all would have with our perfect 20/20 hindsight.
Well, i am up to 42 years of marriage to the same wife and things haven't been all rosy and fairy tales either. As for the examples you have given on how Nick conducted himself in that failed relationship, I would have handled things a lot different.
I myself have had instances in the 45 years of knowing my wife, with 42 of them as married, of putting my job first to my marriage and family but I did put an end to it before it got out of control, more than once. Once or twice, layoffs helped.
To reference how Nick did what he did, I will be happy to refer you to Robyn. She has a much better way to analyze the mistakes the creative team made, than me by just saying, they sucked.
RE: Was the Nick/Juliette break-up & the Nick/Adalind mate-up planned from the start? - brandon - 02-06-2018
Juliette was angry and blamed them.
Close and not talk to they it was one the steps that took her through that way.
RE: Was the Nick/Juliette break-up & the Nick/Adalind mate-up planned from the start? - irukandji - 07-03-2020
(01-20-2018, 10:59 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Hindsight is 20-20, but it seemed to me as if the Nick-Juliette relationship was doomed the moment they decided to have Nick not take Aunt Marie's advice to leave Juliette and at the same time also not tell Juliette what was happening to him. Because Nick, as played by DG, was not an effective liar. Don't know whether that was because DG did a really good job of playing Nick as an overgrown boy scout or because playing Nick as an effective liar was beyond DG's acting limits; I haven't seen him play anything else, so take your pick. Either way, it was inevitable that Juliette would see through the lies and eventually come to distrust and disbelieve in him.
Juliette, as Juliette, could have been an action character. In s01, without knowing what was going on, she got gun training (and was good at it) and scored a better hit on an attacking siegbarste than Nick did. If Nick had told her what he knew that first night she found him in the trailer and she had been able to learn along with him, they could have built on that from the beginning. If nothing else, we could have avoided that entire s02 amnesia arc, because Juliette would have known that Adalind was a hexenbiest who had tried to kill Aunt Marie.
Came across this reading the old posts and thought I would make a comment. I'm not sure why Marie decided to become busy body and make such an outrageous statement. She herself was involved with a wesen and who would have thought that possible from a Grimm standpoint? It shouldn't be an issue that Nick was living with a human woman.
Nick deciding to ignore her could also be for another reason. Marie was in the advanced stages of cancer and when Nick asked how long, she stated two months, two weeks, two days, nobody knows. It doesn't make sense that such a sickly woman would decide to hook up a 4000 pound (maybe more) trailer and tow it to Portland, much less not tell the man who viewed like a mother than she had cancer in the first place. Nick may have figured, as most people would, that Marie was not in her right mind because she was so sick.
Regarding the second paragraph, this is an excellent point. I have never seen anyone ever comment on it or make a similar comment. Nick himself was in the stages of disbelief that night, so Juliette's reaction would have been much easier to tolerate. He could empathize, feeling it himself. How different it would have been had Juliette known Adalind was a hexenbiest from the start.
RE: Was the Nick/Juliette break-up & the Nick/Adalind mate-up planned from the start? - Chachanifa - 07-03-2020
(07-03-2020, 08:51 AM)irukandji Wrote:hmm I think since Grimms can sense danger as mentioned in the last season, Marie might have also sensed danger coming to Nick and thought Juliette would be the one that will be used as Nick's weak point. She also knows that Kereshite close to a Grimm can be in danger as seen in the case of Nick's father and kelly's friend. Since Marie raised Nick, she probably knows that Nick is very emotional and will be affected greatly by the death of the woman he loved if it were to happen. That was probably why Marie said to end it with Juliette as her last advice to Nick.(01-20-2018, 10:59 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Hindsight is 20-20, but it seemed to me as if the Nick-Juliette relationship was doomed the moment they decided to have Nick not take Aunt Marie's advice to leave Juliette and at the same time also not tell Juliette what was happening to him. Because Nick, as played by DG, was not an effective liar. Don't know whether that was because DG did a really good job of playing Nick as an overgrown boy scout or because playing Nick as an effective liar was beyond DG's acting limits; I haven't seen him play anything else, so take your pick. Either way, it was inevitable that Juliette would see through the lies and eventually come to distrust and disbelieve in him.
Juliette, as Juliette, could have been an action character. In s01, without knowing what was going on, she got gun training (and was good at it) and scored a better hit on an attacking siegbarste than Nick did. If Nick had told her what he knew that first night she found him in the trailer and she had been able to learn along with him, they could have built on that from the beginning. If nothing else, we could have avoided that entire s02 amnesia arc, because Juliette would have known that Adalind was a hexenbiest who had tried to kill Aunt Marie.
Came across this reading the old posts and thought I would make a comment. I'm not sure why Marie decided to become busy body and make such an outrageous statement. She herself was involved with a wesen and who would have thought that possible from a Grimm standpoint? It shouldn't be an issue that Nick was living with a human woman.
Nick deciding to ignore her could also be for another reason. Marie was in the advanced stages of cancer and when Nick asked how long, she stated two months, two weeks, two days, nobody knows. It doesn't make sense that such a sickly woman would decide to hook up a 4000 pound (maybe more) trailer and tow it to Portland, much less not tell the man who viewed like a mother than she had cancer in the first place. Nick may have figured, as most people would, that Marie was not in her right mind because she was so sick.
Regarding the second paragraph, this is an excellent point. I have never seen anyone ever comment on it or make a similar comment. Nick himself was in the stages of disbelief that night, so Juliette's reaction would have been much easier to tolerate. He could empathize, feeling it himself. How different it would have been had Juliette known Adalind was a hexenbiest from the start.
Also regarding the last paragraph, it does raise an interesting thought. If Juliette knew Adalind was a Hexenbiest from the start, she probably needed to be a Wesen to fully know how to act to protect herself. If that wasn't the case and Nick just had Monroe or bud woge, maybe she would have become a fine warrior and probably would have been able to keep her relationship even stronger with Nick and potentially worked alongside Rosalee with curing Wesen with her vet knowledge haha. But the creation of Kelly would have still been inevitable.
RE: Was the Nick/Juliette break-up & the Nick/Adalind mate-up planned from the start? - irukandji - 07-03-2020
If Juliette knew Adalind was a hexenbiest from the start, that one bit of knowledge could have had a domino effect on events and changed everything.
RE: Was the Nick/Juliette break-up & the Nick/Adalind mate-up planned from the start? - Chachanifa - 07-03-2020
(07-03-2020, 06:06 PM)irukandji Wrote: If Juliette knew Adalind was a hexenbiest from the start, that one bit of knowledge could have had a domino effect on events and changed everything.After further thought, you would be right. Juliette would have never been in danger from the cat scratch. But even when assuming that never happened, wouldn't the story with the Royals and Adalind taking Nick's powers away still happen? It seemed as if that Adalind turning into Juliette and Juliette turning into Adalind thing was unavoidable since Juliette had no real influence on the birth of Diana and Diana being sent with Kelly
RE: Was the Nick/Juliette break-up & the Nick/Adalind mate-up planned from the start? - irukandji - 07-04-2020
(07-03-2020, 06:25 PM)Chachanifa Wrote:(07-03-2020, 06:06 PM)irukandji Wrote: If Juliette knew Adalind was a hexenbiest from the start, that one bit of knowledge could have had a domino effect on events and changed everything.After further thought, you would be right. Juliette would have never been in danger from the cat scratch. But even when assuming that never happened, wouldn't the story with the Royals and Adalind taking Nick's powers away still happen? It seemed as if that Adalind turning into Juliette and Juliette turning into Adalind thing was unavoidable since Juliette had no real influence on the birth of Diana and Diana being sent with Kelly
One huge factor here that may have upset the whole apple cart is the relationship between Nick and Juliette. Had Nick viewed Juliette as the core of his life, something precious and to be guarded, he would have taken her out to that trailer and the two of them would have looked over the documents and items. They would start out on the same page, so to speak. The big issue Juliette seemed to have with Nick is the fact that he kept secrets from her. That prevented her from accepting his proposal.
But suppose there were no secrets because he didn't keep any from her? What if Juliette had accepted Nick's proposal, they married, and she had already had his child by the time Kelly and Adalind showed up at the house? For that matter, would Kelly even show up with a hexenbiest, someone she believed was a stranger to them? By that point Kelly would have known her son was married and he had a child.
RE: Was the Nick/Juliette break-up & the Nick/Adalind mate-up planned from the start? - N_grimm - 07-04-2020
The main reason Nick didn't tell Juliette that he was a Grimm was that Monroe advised against it because ordinary people couldn't handle such information. If Nick had dragged Juliette along, Monroe would never have helped in the first place. It was also the only reasonable ting for Nick to do. He could not involve Juliette before he knew what he was dealing with himself. And even if he did, their was no reason to believe she would have believed him. Monroe would not woge in front of her and Nick did not know Bud or Rosalee at the time, so he had no way of proving it was true.
RE: Was the Nick/Juliette break-up & the Nick/Adalind mate-up planned from the start? - irukandji - 07-04-2020
I think Marie has a major lack of faith in Nick and Nick has a major lack of faith in Juliette.
RE: Was the Nick/Juliette break-up & the Nick/Adalind mate-up planned from the start? - FaceInTheCrowd - 07-04-2020
My copy of an early Grimm pilot script has a scene in which Nick attempts to tell Juliette about his experiences seeing Adalind and Hulda woge and the contents of Aunt Marie's trailer. This is the scene that is in some other recent posts here as Bitsie's and David's screen tests, and I think it was revised and used in the last episode of S01 just before Juliette went comatose. I always thought it would have made the series more interesting if Nick and Juliette had both been thrown into the new reality together instead of having Nick trying to maintain some sort of comic book hero secret identity like Clark Kent always trying to keep Lois Lane from finding out that he's Superman (it's ironic that Bitsie is now Lois Lane, and she started off playing the character as already having gotten past that). It might also have avoided the whole "Juliette gets amnesia about Nick" arc, which IMO was the worst idea they ever had, until they topped it with the even worse BC arc.