Lots of interesting things in this thread as of late. I wanted to put my spin on it.
eric said magic is real, not some trickery or something that can be explained by science. The issue I have with shows that use magic as part of the storyline is that pretty much everything can be explained away because...........it's magic! Well just what is magic? Where does it come from? How is it that certain people are magical and others aren't? There are a thousand questions I could ask here to which there are no answers.
Eric, I know you prefer the fantasy magical aspect of Grimm. One of the things I found really cool about the show is that it veered away from a magical aspect. I saw it as taking a real life approach. Wesen were not magical animals found in tales. They were humans with special gifts.
Hexenbiests were not witches like Samantha and Endora, who had infinite power and could do whatever they wanted. Instead, Grimm made them people I could relate to. Even the dweeb Adalind as the witch who can't quite get anything right fits right in with the story.
To top it off, they put it in Portland, not some fantasy city where anything goes. The characters are all flawed and sway more towards a darker nature than a heroic one.
The death of a main character is supposed to create a whole different view to the series. In short, shock and loss. Yet was anyone really upset at Renard's "death"? No, because as a few people have told me, he can't die because he's a main character. Whatever.
I have an issue with shows bringing the dead back to life because it wakens the show by creating a huge black hole that the show cannot escape from. You know the Grimm creators are not going to leave this one alone. Now everyone can die and as long as Elizabeth (or a suitable replacement) is around with her two headed snake (or a suitable replacement), no one's in real danger.
I like the idea of ghosts in Grimm. There are lots of unexplained phenomena and that could be used to great advantage. Just not Jack the Ripper waiting around forever for Renard to kick the bucket so he can take over.......no, just no. Completely dumb.
I actually think a mental illness perspective would be interesting. But that's a debate for another thread. What I really wanted to talk about was the character of Merlin. I've seen a few different versions of King Arthur, but the mini series with Sam Neill and the movie, Excalibur, are among my favorites. I was comparing them tonight and found something in common between the two of them.
In the mini-series, Queen Mab is a witch, who causes a lot of trouble for Merlin, including banishing Nimuweh so Merlin cannot get to her. To fight her, Merlin advises the court to "forget her". They all turn their backs to her, and she slowly disappears, forgotten.
Later Merlin, a very old man, is relating the story of his life to a small village. Frik, a gnome who partnered with Queen Mab and then turned against her, listens to Merlin's tale. When the tale ends, he goes up to Merlin and comments that Merlin's story is not how it entirely transpired and there were certain parts that were omitted.
Merlin replies that it is the version he believes people will prefer.
In Excalibur, Merlin actually dies, banished to a cave by Morgana, who has become more powerful than him. Arthur "dreams" of Merlin right before the great battle. Merlin tells Arthur that his dream brought him (Merlin) back to life. In a dream he visits Morgana and brings about her death.
Both of the stories tell about the power of belief. Queen Mab was powerful and magical because people believed in her and feared her. Excalibur's Merlin was powerful and magical because people believed in him, even after his death. In the mini-series, Merlin has one last spell. Nimuweh has been freed and when Merlin finds her, he uses the spell to make them young again so they can start over. But, people no longer believe in the old ways, so there is no more magic.
With regard to Grimm, if it all comes down to this being some kind of unreal reality in Nick's mind, I really don't have a problem with that. It's a fantasy, why not a fantasy of the mind?
Back to spells and potions. I like that the characters use real things, like hair and herbs to make their spells. It gives a real feel to the series. It also allows us to discuss the reality of spells, such as genetic changes to the recipient.
eric said magic is real, not some trickery or something that can be explained by science. The issue I have with shows that use magic as part of the storyline is that pretty much everything can be explained away because...........it's magic! Well just what is magic? Where does it come from? How is it that certain people are magical and others aren't? There are a thousand questions I could ask here to which there are no answers.
Eric, I know you prefer the fantasy magical aspect of Grimm. One of the things I found really cool about the show is that it veered away from a magical aspect. I saw it as taking a real life approach. Wesen were not magical animals found in tales. They were humans with special gifts.
Hexenbiests were not witches like Samantha and Endora, who had infinite power and could do whatever they wanted. Instead, Grimm made them people I could relate to. Even the dweeb Adalind as the witch who can't quite get anything right fits right in with the story.
To top it off, they put it in Portland, not some fantasy city where anything goes. The characters are all flawed and sway more towards a darker nature than a heroic one.
Quote:Elizabeth bringing her son back from the dead using a two headed snake.
The death of a main character is supposed to create a whole different view to the series. In short, shock and loss. Yet was anyone really upset at Renard's "death"? No, because as a few people have told me, he can't die because he's a main character. Whatever.
I have an issue with shows bringing the dead back to life because it wakens the show by creating a huge black hole that the show cannot escape from. You know the Grimm creators are not going to leave this one alone. Now everyone can die and as long as Elizabeth (or a suitable replacement) is around with her two headed snake (or a suitable replacement), no one's in real danger.
I like the idea of ghosts in Grimm. There are lots of unexplained phenomena and that could be used to great advantage. Just not Jack the Ripper waiting around forever for Renard to kick the bucket so he can take over.......no, just no. Completely dumb.
Quote:Lin S, if this is a show about a mental case, I will be sorry I have wasted my time on it. This is a thread on magic potions and spells, not the pros and cons of lithium. The original Troy made perfect sense in that age because the gods(magic) were fighting among themselves. directing the action, clouding the minds of the characters, helping kill off the warriors. Still makes sense today. The Brad Pitt version of Troy could not rationally explain the abduction of Helen, why she was not sent back, or why Troy would take in the horse. Harry Potter's books and movies are about magic, not teenagers in an English mental hospital. In 12 Monkeys Pitt is coo coo, but everyone knows it. I read a lot of real science, . Grimm is not really real. I watch Grimm because it is not in the real world. I watch for the fantasy. If the writers and producers pull a Dallas on us, and it is revealed in the last episode to be a delusion, I will call down the wrath of the gods upon them(not a terrorist threat, please do not call the FBI, I am really tired of talking to them).
I actually think a mental illness perspective would be interesting. But that's a debate for another thread. What I really wanted to talk about was the character of Merlin. I've seen a few different versions of King Arthur, but the mini series with Sam Neill and the movie, Excalibur, are among my favorites. I was comparing them tonight and found something in common between the two of them.
In the mini-series, Queen Mab is a witch, who causes a lot of trouble for Merlin, including banishing Nimuweh so Merlin cannot get to her. To fight her, Merlin advises the court to "forget her". They all turn their backs to her, and she slowly disappears, forgotten.
Later Merlin, a very old man, is relating the story of his life to a small village. Frik, a gnome who partnered with Queen Mab and then turned against her, listens to Merlin's tale. When the tale ends, he goes up to Merlin and comments that Merlin's story is not how it entirely transpired and there were certain parts that were omitted.
Merlin replies that it is the version he believes people will prefer.
In Excalibur, Merlin actually dies, banished to a cave by Morgana, who has become more powerful than him. Arthur "dreams" of Merlin right before the great battle. Merlin tells Arthur that his dream brought him (Merlin) back to life. In a dream he visits Morgana and brings about her death.
Both of the stories tell about the power of belief. Queen Mab was powerful and magical because people believed in her and feared her. Excalibur's Merlin was powerful and magical because people believed in him, even after his death. In the mini-series, Merlin has one last spell. Nimuweh has been freed and when Merlin finds her, he uses the spell to make them young again so they can start over. But, people no longer believe in the old ways, so there is no more magic.
With regard to Grimm, if it all comes down to this being some kind of unreal reality in Nick's mind, I really don't have a problem with that. It's a fantasy, why not a fantasy of the mind?
Back to spells and potions. I like that the characters use real things, like hair and herbs to make their spells. It gives a real feel to the series. It also allows us to discuss the reality of spells, such as genetic changes to the recipient.
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.