Quote:It's apparent you like the Adalind/Nick combination and it's apparent you do not like the Nick/Juliette combination. You were annoyed that I criticized Adalind and so you're throwing Juliette into the conversation in some attempt to show that Adalind is clearly the one who should be with Nick just by virtue of Juliette being a bitch.
Au contraire, I actually was a supporter of the Juliette/Nick relationship to begin with, but their never ending drama just completely turned me off to them. I was annoyed with you, not because you criticised Adalind (which would have been entirely reasonable, she has done a lot of horrible things in the past to merit criticism) but because you were trying to change the official narrative to suit your own preference. For example, your suggestion that Nick and Adalind hooked up together because they had no other choice but each other. Nowhere was that shown in the show, the main reason why they ended up together was because they had a baby together, and ended up falling in love with each other.
Quote:By the way, before you accuse someone of changing the series, you might want to read your paragraph because you clearly changed the facts here. Juliette turned into Eve and did not want Nick back, nor did Nick get ever get the impression she wanted him back.
Oh yeah? Care to explain why Juliette as Eve in Season 5 kept warning Nick that once Adalind turned back into a hexenbiest, she couldn't be trusted? That was frankly none of Eve/Juliette's business since she and Nick weren't together anymore. They weren't even friends at that stage. And then she took it a step further and actually went to Adalind to confront her, warning her that she would kill Adalind if Adalind ever hurt Nick. How else to interpret that scene if Juliette/Eve had no interest in Nick anymore? Then Eve mentions she would do her best to look after Kelly, ignoring Adalind's role as his mother altogether. We move on to Season 6. In the Captain, Oh Captain episode, Nick is undressing to change into the clothes of Renard. Everyone else looks away from him as he undresses except for Eve/Juliette, and Nick glares at her, which causes her to turn away from him. Why would scenes like that be shown if it wasn't implying that Juliette/Eve didn't feel anything for Nick? Oh and if it wasn't clear for us, Juliette/Eve does a strange like woge after hearing Adalind and Nick's private conversation. As a viewer, I got the impression that her hexenbiest was trying to come out in a moment of jealousy but she was able to control it. Who knows, maybe another viewer might have interpreted the scene differently. But what was intentionally clear was the conversation that Juliette/Eve had with Diana about missing Nick and sometimes wanting him back. See, I mentioned these to you in detail, citing particular scenes to support my theories but you just say things without any evidence whatsoever. I sometimes wonder, did you even watch any of the episodes? Because it seems you either miss out on key details or ignore certain events that occurred in the show.
Quote:At the time of their conversation (season 5) Nick was still unsure about Adalind, so why would he say that he loved her? It would have been strange and frankly unbelievable if Nick suddenly declared to his friends that Adalind was the love of his life just after a few months of living with her.
Allow me to quote your previous paragraph:
Yet Nick thought she was a good enough woman to be his girlfriend and maybe even his wife. Meisner seemed to have only good non sexual thoughts about Adalind, specifically about her being a good mother. Nick thought so too, when he told Monroe she was an amazing mother to Kelly. So you're wrong about that as well.
Nick is so sure about Adalind being a good enough woman to be his girlfriend and maybe even his wife, but he's not sure enough of his feelings for her?
Yes, because Nick didn't start out thinking that Adalind was going to become his gf or even maybe future wife. She was someone who he was forced to live with for the sake of their baby, a relationship with her was out of the equation (initially). He still loved Juliette at the beginning of Season 5, despite all the horrible things she did to him, and he was grieving for her. Nick started to like Adalind more and more when he got to know her and as he began to heal from his grief. This was due in part because he saw how nice and warm she could be, and was amazed what a great mother she turned out to be. I already cited my reasons why Nick was confused about his feelings for her, and several posters have also pinpointed them as well. Please feel free to read their theories if you don't like mine.
Quote:Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said Nick didn't care about Adalind at all.
Again, you wrote that Nick had no other choice but Adalind because Juliette left him, you stated that he settled for less with her, and even threw in a line that you wouldn't be surprised if down the track, they would look back and realise that they settled for less with each other. Settling for someone less implies that you only hooked up with that person because you couldn't find anyone else, rather than based on love. The image you created was a man like Nick, who was handsome, stable and successful in his job, was such a pathetic creature that he had no choice but to settle with a person he despised because no girl after Juliette could ever go for him.
Quote:Lust is a very strong sexual desire and it's a serious thing. You can whitewash it all you want by adding , "that is not the same as cheating".
Um...I don't know if you're aware of this but if you check out someone attractive, you are actually in lust with them. Why else would you look? A beautiful woman with amazing curves is sure to attract attention from men both taken and not taken, and chances are, the thoughts that would run through their minds would be of the impure kind. Are we in some alternate reality that checking out someone attractive is not considered lustful? Women do the same thing, they check out handsome men not because they admire them as they do a painting or a nice pair of shoes, but rather because they want to imagine what it's like to sleep with them. That is human nature, our primal base instincts revolve around food and sex (procreating).
Quote:I don't see this about Nick. I never, ever got the impression he was lusting after Adalind.
I guess you once again missed out on a vital episode, like the pilot episode where we are first introduced to Nick and his partner Hank. And where Nick also experiences his first woge upon seeing Adalind. Prior to his woge however, he was checking her out, and even Hank makes a comment about it. You also must have missed out on the episode where Nick slept with Juliette as Adalind to regain his powers, where his reaction was of enjoyment rather than disgust once Juliette reassures him that everything would still be fine between them.
Quote:If you were talking about Renard, I would totally agree with you. Adalind fell in love with Renard, but she kept her career, she had her own apartment, she was a hexenbiest who could do hexenbiest things, and she even had time for some sexual flings when she and Renard parted company. She was fun and funny, always scheming and she had fun at it. That's what made her character.
You forgot to mention that she was groomed by her mother to be a sexual plaything for the Royals and for Renard, and Renard slept with her mother just for the fun of it. Imagine what that must have been like for a young Adalind, knowing that the people you loved thought you so insignificant and unworthy as to not consider your feelings when they decided to sleep together. Also, Renard pretty much ruined her life, using her to try to destroy Nick and causing her to lose her powers. And when she did lose her powers, she was not only slapped by her mother, insulted by Renard, but also kicked out of her house. Adalind may have been initially the fun, evil, scheming girl but based on what we later find out about her character, that was only a persona she adopted to please her mother and Renard. And we see this even in season 1, where Catherine and Renard discuss their displeasure of Adalind because sometimes she fails to live up to their expectations. Also, Adalind started changing in season 3 after she had Diana It wasn't due to Nick, rather it was loving her own child that made her want to start to change. It wasn't that Adalind suddenly had a complete personality transplant, rather I suspect it was because her hidden 'real' personality started to surface once she stopped trying to put up the sexy evil image front.
Quote:How much fun did you see her having with Nick in the fome now? Now, before you tell me how sweet and nice she is and how Kelly takes up oh so much of her time, consider this.
]Nick is the star of the show, he's the grimm. Is the creative team really going to give Nick some serious competition by making Adalind the scheming hexenbiest with a career doing her own thing while living with him? Not on your life. She's been reduced to human background, a domesticated mouse who was suddenly deathly afraid of being a hexenbiest around Nick and totally afraid of doing her own thing. What was done to her character was a travesty. If you get time, peruse some of the other grimm forums. I'm not the only one who misses the old Adalind.
My initial post was about why Nick and Adalind clicked. You are shifting the topic to whether or not it was fair of the writers to tamp down Adalind's wild side in order to be a proper partner for Nick. But okay, let me try to go with this. In my opinion, if Adalind had remained the same old Adalind in season 1, the evil scheming seductress, then she would be nothing more than a 1 dimensional character with no capacity for good, just all evil. And Nick and Adalind's interactions would just be a redux of their relationship in season 1-3. I don't see why Adalind shouldn't have been given a progression in her character. The writers may have dropped the ball in the way they wrote that progression, but the overall idea wasn't bad. Yes, Adalind could have been written to be more sassy in order to stay true to her character, but her reasons for being afraid of becoming a hexenbiest again was entirely reasonable. She knew what it was like to have a biest living inside her, which made her do lots of bad things, she also saw the destruction that Juliette caused with the biest inside her. Adalind had to turn to her own worst enemy because she had nothing else, Juliette was trying to kill her, the Royals were plotting against her too, she realised her powers were no match for Juliette's, and she was going to have a baby with no money and no job and no place to stay. No wonder she felt helpless and afraid.
Quote:Nick wasn't always kind to her. Because he listened to his mother instead of his police training, he participated in kidnapping her first baby. As a result of that, he messed everything up. He hated her for what she did to Marie, and he took her hexenbiest powers away from her, causing even more trouble.
Yes, Nick wasn't kind to her, because she wasn't kind to him. They both did terrible things to each other, that's why I keep stating that it's no surprise that were reluctant to be together because of their bad history. Their turbulent history was the reason why they didn't trust each other, but despite it, they were able to overcome their problems as a couple.
Quote:Add to the fact that she raped him and ended up pregnant with Kelly. She wasn't even going to tell him he was a father to be. She was only forced to because she was booted out by the royals.
Adalind did rape him, although Nick doesn't seem to view it that way. However, she was only forced to do it because she wanted to see her daughter Diana. Again, no one is arguing that Nick and Adalind have done a lot of bad, nasty, horrible, mean things to each other. Despite their awful history and against all odds, they were able to make their relationship work for 20 long years.
Quote:I think it's rather arrogant to tell other posters they can't make comments about her. She's a fictional character and this isn't a thread discussing scripts about the series. It's asking for opinions. Not everyone is going to adore Adalind and write nothing other than compliments simply because you want them to unless you state that's what you're looking for when you start a thread.
How am I arrogant? You're the one who didn't even choose to stay on topic. I asked for reasons why they clicked together, and you gave me an explanation stating that they didn't have any choice coz no one else wanted them. How does that answer the original topic? If you disagreed, please at least list the reasons why and show evidence instead of stating what you think without any basis in the facts of the show. If you want, I can give you an example:
Nick and Adalind didn't click, so much as Nick decided to go with Adalind because he had a baby with her and longed for a family/domestic life like what Monroe and Rosalee had. He would have done anything to create a stable upbringing for Kelly, and Adalind was key to that stability. It wasn't so much to do with actual love, but rather for practical reasons why Nick would have chosen to go with Adalind in the end. She made him happy, and they were still happy after 20 years together, but falling in love was just merely a byproduct rather than their end goal. And Juliette made the choice easier for him, when she finally allowed him to let go of his guilt in the other world.
I would have understood that reasoning more so than what you gave me. All those things were a possibility, Nick was portrayed to be a domestic type of man, who longed for marriage and possibly even children with the woman he loved. We know this because we saw this in the pilot episode. Adalind was someone who would allow him to fulfil that desire of his. We also know that Nick wanted stability for his son because he told Adalind that he would never try to take away his son's mother after having lost his own mother himself. Stating that they were only settling for less without any proper explanation or saying things that were contrary to what has been seen in the show is stating your own bias, your mere conjecture.
Quote:The only one who compared Adalind to other women is you. You did that by bringing Juliette into the debate. Now you're bringing Rosalee into it. I merely stated that I think she and Nick settled for less.
Your statement about settling for less doesn't contribute anything to the original topic I started. I can easily state that Nick should have ended up with Monroe, because they would have made a better, happier couple than Monroe and Rosalee, or Adalind and Nick. You may be upset that Adalind was written to end up with Nick rather than becoming a single mother, but it does make sense for Adalind to be in a relationship with Nick. Whatever your feelings are about the writers choices for her, it wasn't unrealistic for the character Adalind to want to be with the man who she loves and makes her happy.
Quote:Are your opinions not your own interpretations? Do you really consider your opinions to be facts?
Yes, I consider my opinions to be based on facts, more so than yours do, because I cite evidence from the show. I argue my points by showing examples. You may interpret the scene differently, but so far, you have yet to show me any examples from the show to support your statements.
Quote:No, it's not my bias talking. It's only biased to you because I'm not agreeing with what you're saying. That's all this comes down to. You're annoyed because I don't see Nick and Adalind the same way you do.
Yes, it is your bias talking, because you state your opinions without any facts from the show. Again, please show me evidence that supports your view that doesn't contradict the main ideas from the show, and I'll gladly consider it.
Quote:Let me ask this: Do you really want to read pages and pages of posts, with everyone agreeing with the way you think? Just from the way you're arguing with me, I would say no. But, maybe you do.
I have read many posts here prior to joining this forum. I appreciate those who can argue logically and who cite evidence to support their views. I think it is you who is becoming over emotional about this, because you have called me arrogant just because I stated my annoyance with you.
Quote:You might want to read your very first post on this thread because it doesn't consist of facts.
Maybe you can point out exactly where you set the rules for this thread and told everyone to discuss facts and facts only, because what I see here is a thread asking for our thoughts
which ARE NOT facts.
Thoughts that would make logical sense, maybe I should have clarified. Your thoughts unfortunately contributed nothing to this thread. I asked for why Nick and Adalind clicked, you said that they settled for less, without any evidence to back up your claim. Merely your conjecture. But sure, I'll play nice with you. Feel free to come up with another suggestion that doesn't contribute to the discussion. I can think of a few: Nick and Adalind didn't click because Adalind was in love with Meisner all along, Nick and Adalind didn't click because Nick realised he would be much happier spending his life fighting wesen and nailing hot chicks. They might not make sense and may be contrary to what was seen on the show, but hey, as long as we're going on our thoughts, right?
Quote:Again, I think you're just peeved because I voiced my thoughts and so now you're trying to change the thread. If you want to, that's fine, just make sure you're clear and concise because it's apparent you are only looking for specific responses that everyone agrees with you about Nick and Adalind. Be specific and you'll get exactly what you want.
Change the thread? If you intended to stick to the original topic, you would give me reasons as to why Nick and Adalind clicked. The question wasn't 'Did Nick and Adalind click?' The question was 'Why did Nick and Adalind click?' Yes, there is a huge difference between those two questions. See if you can figure it out.