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Did the creative team screwed up the key & the Adalind getting back her Hex arcs? - dicappatore - 07-30-2020
I been watching Grimm highlights on You Tube. I came across a scene when Nick is waiting on Captain Renard in his office.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WazHx2FngHM
I think this was the episode about the alien sightings, S2, E19, Endangered. Nick starts to ask Sean about the 7 keys. Renard tells Nick, the royals hold 4 of the keys. Besides the one key Nick has, Renard tells him there are 2 more missing.
As it turns out, when we get to S3, E21, The Inheritance. Rolek gives Nick his 2nd key. Then we get to S5, E10, Map of the Seven Knights. When the gang gets to open the trunk from Monroe's uncle, they find 3 more keys. So what happened to the story Sean told Nick about the Royals having 4 of the keys. Last time I looked, 5 plus 4 equals 9, not 7.
Was Sean lying? Did the Royals lie to Sean? Did the creative team screw up and had to revamp the "keys arc"?
I don't recall if this other question was raised in any other treads. My question to the creative team is about the whole "Contaminatio Ritualis" Adalind had to go trough, to get her Hex back. Why did she have to go through that whole ordeal to get her powers back?
Juliette became a Hexenbiest because she got another Hex, Sean's mom, Elizabeth, to make her a potion to turn Juliette into Adalind, so she could bed Nick to get his Grimm back. It wasn't the sex that turned her into a Hex, it was her transforming into Adalind, for a short while.
All Adalind had to do was go see another Hexenbiest, such as, Henrietta. Ask Henrietta, to make a potion, for her, to turn Adalind into Henrietta, her self, for a short wile. And WHA-LA Adalind gets back her Hex. No need to kill another Hex and tear out her heart, while it was still beating. No need to go bury that heart. No need to kill off a whole meadow of pretty flowers and worst of all, no needed to have to bite cut off the treading string after sowing Frau Pech's chest.
Was it another after thought mistake?
RE: Did the creative team screwed up the key & the Adalind getting back her Hex arcs? - FaceInTheCrowd - 07-30-2020
WRT the keys, either the royals never had four keys and were lying when they said they did, or they did, lost two of them to unnamed grimms (who in turn passed them on to Nebojsa for safekeeping) and then hid the fact that they had lost them. With the power jockeying going on within the seven families, nobody would want to admit that they had lost one of the keys, much less two of them.
And as we later saw, it wasn't really necessary to have all seven keys to find or to open the chest.
WRT the hexenbiest issue, Adalind brewed the potion for her impersonation of Juliette from her mother's cookbook, and Elizabeth said it had effects that Adalind didn't anticipate. So there might have been another way Adalind could have regained her powers, but without her mother's guidance, contaminatio ritualis was probably the only one she knew. That path was sufficiently well known that even Nick's mom knew about it.
RE: Did the creative team screwed up the key & the Adalind getting back her Hex arcs? - Tish - 07-30-2020
I believe on another thread someone posted that they should have continued with the Royals and Juliette being the series ultimate baddie...point blank that would have made more sense than going with Black Claw. It would have made a lot more sense than the last three episodes that ties up but not really the loose ends in the show. This ultimate baddie had no real connection to our hero and his scoobies. Juliette the Hexenbiest would have. It was sorta like the Endgame from Marvel where you see all these characters going against Thanos -- but they are going against the Thanos that has no clue who they are -- only that they were trying to undo who future him accomplished. There's no real personal anguish or pain.
I say all that to say that continuing with the keys instead of trying to get to it in season five so early would have probably lent to a better series arc better. The season 5 arc could have been finding a few more keys - and season six could have been wresting the final keys from the royals and obtaining the treasure. And fighting Juliette. They chose to go a different path because they didn't want to commit to do a Ward (Agents of Shield) on Juliet.
RE: Did the creative team screwed up the key & the Adalind getting back her Hex arcs? - N_grimm - 07-31-2020
(07-30-2020, 12:37 AM)dicappatore Wrote: I been watching Grimm highlights on You Tube. I came across a scene when Nick is waiting on Captain Renard in his office.Good catch about the 4 keys. We do not know where Renard got that information from. He was taking about stuff happening hundreds of years back. They royals probably had the last two keys or maybe it was just rumors. I would say the stick was not that far off from the myths Renard talked about- yet he was surprised it was a stick…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WazHx2FngHM
I think this was the episode about the alien sightings, S2, E19, Endangered. Nick starts to ask Sean about the 7 keys. Renard tells Nick, the royals hold 4 of the keys. Besides the one key Nick has, Renard tells him there are 2 more missing.
As it turns out, when we get to S3, E21, The Inheritance. Rolek gives Nick his 2nd key. Then we get to S5, E10, Map of the Seven Knights. When the gang gets to open the trunk from Monroe's uncle, they find 3 more keys. So what happened to the story Sean told Nick about the Royals having 4 of the keys. Last time I looked, 5 plus 4 equals 9, not 7.
Was Sean lying? Did the Royals lie to Sean? Did the creative team screw up and had to revamp the "keys arc"?
I don't recall if this other question was raised in any other treads. My question to the creative team is about the whole "Contaminatio Ritualis" Adalind had to go trough, to get her Hex back. Why did she have to go through that whole ordeal to get her powers back?
Juliette became a Hexenbiest because she got another Hex, Sean's mom, Elizabeth, to make her a potion to turn Juliette into Adalind, so she could bed Nick to get his Grimm back. It wasn't the sex that turned her into a Hex, it was her transforming into Adalind, for a short while.
All Adalind had to do was go see another Hexenbiest, such as, Henrietta. Ask Henrietta, to make a potion, for her, to turn Adalind into Henrietta, her self, for a short wile. And WHA-LA Adalind gets back her Hex. No need to kill another Hex and tear out her heart, while it was still beating. No need to go bury that heart. No need to kill off a whole meadow of pretty flowers and worst of all, no needed to have to bite cut off the treading string after sowing Frau Pech's chest.
Was it another after thought mistake?
I am not sure about the “Adalind gettering her hex back”-inconsistency. I did not get the impression Adalind new in advance that Juliette could turn into a hexenbiest. She did figure it out when she knew Juliette had changed and Nick had become a Grimm again, but that was just backward reasoning. Nick had problems turning back from being Renard but did not turn into a half-zauberbies. It seemed to me that The Verfluchte Zwillingsschwester had some unstable side effects.
RE: Did the creative team screwed up the key & the Adalind getting back her Hex arcs? - Tish - 07-31-2020
(07-31-2020, 01:09 PM)N_grimm Wrote:(07-30-2020, 12:37 AM)dicappatore Wrote: I been watching Grimm highlights on You Tube. I came across a scene when Nick is waiting on Captain Renard in his office.Good catch about the 4 keys. We do not know where Renard got that information from. He was taking about stuff happening hundreds of years back. They royals probably had the last two keys or maybe it was just rumors. I would say the stick was not that far off from the myths Renard talked about- yet he was surprised it was a stick…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WazHx2FngHM
I think this was the episode about the alien sightings, S2, E19, Endangered. Nick starts to ask Sean about the 7 keys. Renard tells Nick, the royals hold 4 of the keys. Besides the one key Nick has, Renard tells him there are 2 more missing.
As it turns out, when we get to S3, E21, The Inheritance. Rolek gives Nick his 2nd key. Then we get to S5, E10, Map of the Seven Knights. When the gang gets to open the trunk from Monroe's uncle, they find 3 more keys. So what happened to the story Sean told Nick about the Royals having 4 of the keys. Last time I looked, 5 plus 4 equals 9, not 7.
Was Sean lying? Did the Royals lie to Sean? Did the creative team screw up and had to revamp the "keys arc"?
I don't recall if this other question was raised in any other treads. My question to the creative team is about the whole "Contaminatio Ritualis" Adalind had to go trough, to get her Hex back. Why did she have to go through that whole ordeal to get her powers back?
Juliette became a Hexenbiest because she got another Hex, Sean's mom, Elizabeth, to make her a potion to turn Juliette into Adalind, so she could bed Nick to get his Grimm back. It wasn't the sex that turned her into a Hex, it was her transforming into Adalind, for a short while.
All Adalind had to do was go see another Hexenbiest, such as, Henrietta. Ask Henrietta, to make a potion, for her, to turn Adalind into Henrietta, her self, for a short wile. And WHA-LA Adalind gets back her Hex. No need to kill another Hex and tear out her heart, while it was still beating. No need to go bury that heart. No need to kill off a whole meadow of pretty flowers and worst of all, no needed to have to bite cut off the treading string after sowing Frau Pech's chest.
Was it another after thought mistake?
I am not sure about the “Adalind gettering her hex back”-inconsistency. I did not get the impression Adalind new in advance that Juliette could turn into a hexenbiest. She did figure it out when she knew Juliette had changed and Nick had become a Grimm again, but that was just backward reasoning. Nick had problems turning back from being Renard but did not turn into a half-zauberbies. It seemed to me that The Verfluchte Zwillingsschwester had some unstable side effects.
You need to also take into account that Diana is the one that actually broke that spell on Nick -- she was a little pissed that someone had impersonated her daddy so she whammied the spell out of him. Could she have done the same thing to Juliette? Possibly...but with Juliet we were dealing with a full human with Nick there was a Grimm aspect that was preventing the change back.
RE: Did the creative team screwed up the key & the Adalind getting back her Hex arcs? - N_grimm - 07-31-2020
(07-31-2020, 01:33 PM)Tish Wrote:That’s true. My point is that the spell had unknown side effects. Elisabeth appeared knowledgeable but did not know Juliette would become a hexenbiest either. So why should Adalind be expected to be aware of that? Welcome to the forum, by the way!(07-31-2020, 01:09 PM)N_grimm Wrote:(07-30-2020, 12:37 AM)dicappatore Wrote: I been watching Grimm highlights on You Tube. I came across a scene when Nick is waiting on Captain Renard in his office.Good catch about the 4 keys. We do not know where Renard got that information from. He was taking about stuff happening hundreds of years back. They royals probably had the last two keys or maybe it was just rumors. I would say the stick was not that far off from the myths Renard talked about- yet he was surprised it was a stick…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WazHx2FngHM
I think this was the episode about the alien sightings, S2, E19, Endangered. Nick starts to ask Sean about the 7 keys. Renard tells Nick, the royals hold 4 of the keys. Besides the one key Nick has, Renard tells him there are 2 more missing.
As it turns out, when we get to S3, E21, The Inheritance. Rolek gives Nick his 2nd key. Then we get to S5, E10, Map of the Seven Knights. When the gang gets to open the trunk from Monroe's uncle, they find 3 more keys. So what happened to the story Sean told Nick about the Royals having 4 of the keys. Last time I looked, 5 plus 4 equals 9, not 7.
Was Sean lying? Did the Royals lie to Sean? Did the creative team screw up and had to revamp the "keys arc"?
I don't recall if this other question was raised in any other treads. My question to the creative team is about the whole "Contaminatio Ritualis" Adalind had to go trough, to get her Hex back. Why did she have to go through that whole ordeal to get her powers back?
Juliette became a Hexenbiest because she got another Hex, Sean's mom, Elizabeth, to make her a potion to turn Juliette into Adalind, so she could bed Nick to get his Grimm back. It wasn't the sex that turned her into a Hex, it was her transforming into Adalind, for a short while.
All Adalind had to do was go see another Hexenbiest, such as, Henrietta. Ask Henrietta, to make a potion, for her, to turn Adalind into Henrietta, her self, for a short wile. And WHA-LA Adalind gets back her Hex. No need to kill another Hex and tear out her heart, while it was still beating. No need to go bury that heart. No need to kill off a whole meadow of pretty flowers and worst of all, no needed to have to bite cut off the treading string after sowing Frau Pech's chest.
Was it another after thought mistake?
I am not sure about the “Adalind gettering her hex back”-inconsistency. I did not get the impression Adalind new in advance that Juliette could turn into a hexenbiest. She did figure it out when she knew Juliette had changed and Nick had become a Grimm again, but that was just backward reasoning. Nick had problems turning back from being Renard but did not turn into a half-zauberbies. It seemed to me that The Verfluchte Zwillingsschwester had some unstable side effects.
You need to also take into account that Diana is the one that actually broke that spell on Nick -- she was a little pissed that someone had impersonated her daddy so she whammied the spell out of him. Could she have done the same thing to Juliette? Possibly...but with Juliet we were dealing with a full human with Nick there was a Grimm aspect that was preventing the change back.
RE: Did the creative team screwed up the key & the Adalind getting back her Hex arcs? - Tish - 07-31-2020
(07-31-2020, 02:04 PM)N_grimm Wrote:Adalind couldn't. I was agreeing with your point. As it stands without the Diana whammy, unless they used the stick to magically change him back (which was probably their other idea), Sasha Roiz would have been doing a lot more work that season and David would have been looking for work a bit sooner. Thank you for the welcome. I love pulling plot lines a part...and analyzing what happened. Oh and debating with people who seem to watch a totally different show than me.(07-31-2020, 01:33 PM)Tish Wrote:That’s true. My point is that the spell had unknown side effects. Elisabeth appeared knowledgeable but did not know Juliette would become a hexenbiest either. So why should Adalind be expected to be aware of that? Welcome to the forum, by the way!(07-31-2020, 01:09 PM)N_grimm Wrote:(07-30-2020, 12:37 AM)dicappatore Wrote: I been watching Grimm highlights on You Tube. I came across a scene when Nick is waiting on Captain Renard in his office.Good catch about the 4 keys. We do not know where Renard got that information from. He was taking about stuff happening hundreds of years back. They royals probably had the last two keys or maybe it was just rumors. I would say the stick was not that far off from the myths Renard talked about- yet he was surprised it was a stick…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WazHx2FngHM
I think this was the episode about the alien sightings, S2, E19, Endangered. Nick starts to ask Sean about the 7 keys. Renard tells Nick, the royals hold 4 of the keys. Besides the one key Nick has, Renard tells him there are 2 more missing.
As it turns out, when we get to S3, E21, The Inheritance. Rolek gives Nick his 2nd key. Then we get to S5, E10, Map of the Seven Knights. When the gang gets to open the trunk from Monroe's uncle, they find 3 more keys. So what happened to the story Sean told Nick about the Royals having 4 of the keys. Last time I looked, 5 plus 4 equals 9, not 7.
Was Sean lying? Did the Royals lie to Sean? Did the creative team screw up and had to revamp the "keys arc"?
I don't recall if this other question was raised in any other treads. My question to the creative team is about the whole "Contaminatio Ritualis" Adalind had to go trough, to get her Hex back. Why did she have to go through that whole ordeal to get her powers back?
Juliette became a Hexenbiest because she got another Hex, Sean's mom, Elizabeth, to make her a potion to turn Juliette into Adalind, so she could bed Nick to get his Grimm back. It wasn't the sex that turned her into a Hex, it was her transforming into Adalind, for a short while.
All Adalind had to do was go see another Hexenbiest, such as, Henrietta. Ask Henrietta, to make a potion, for her, to turn Adalind into Henrietta, her self, for a short wile. And WHA-LA Adalind gets back her Hex. No need to kill another Hex and tear out her heart, while it was still beating. No need to go bury that heart. No need to kill off a whole meadow of pretty flowers and worst of all, no needed to have to bite cut off the treading string after sowing Frau Pech's chest.
Was it another after thought mistake?
I am not sure about the “Adalind gettering her hex back”-inconsistency. I did not get the impression Adalind new in advance that Juliette could turn into a hexenbiest. She did figure it out when she knew Juliette had changed and Nick had become a Grimm again, but that was just backward reasoning. Nick had problems turning back from being Renard but did not turn into a half-zauberbies. It seemed to me that The Verfluchte Zwillingsschwester had some unstable side effects.
You need to also take into account that Diana is the one that actually broke that spell on Nick -- she was a little pissed that someone had impersonated her daddy so she whammied the spell out of him. Could she have done the same thing to Juliette? Possibly...but with Juliet we were dealing with a full human with Nick there was a Grimm aspect that was preventing the change back.
RE: Did the creative team screwed up the key & the Adalind getting back her Hex arcs? - dicappatore - 07-31-2020
(07-31-2020, 02:37 PM)Tish Wrote: I love pulling plot lines a part...and analyzing what happened. Oh and debating with people who seem to watch a totally different show than me.I love it too. Unfortunately you will find out there are one or two contributors, (cough) here and there, on this board, when confronted with facts (scenes and scripts) to question their deductions, they will make up scenes and dialogue that did not exist to support their point of view. I can respect your observation such as you pointing out how Diana kicked the "Sean" out of Nick. I completely forgot about that scene.
But could have she kicked out the Hex out of Juliette? Juliette had no issues going back to being her self because she wasn't put in the situation to resist her becoming herself again. I need to go back to that episode to see if Nick was able to voge into a Zouberbiest when he was fighting Sean, as Sean on that rooftop fight.
I guess the same side effects didn't stick to Nick, him being a Grimm. What I didn't get is why Nick couldn't have removed the Hex out of Juliette as he did to Adalind, with the blood of a Grimm. The reasoning they gave us, of "IT' being done already, to that Hex lineage, was a bit too convenient and IMO, illogical.
RE: Did the creative team screwed up the key & the Adalind getting back her Hex arcs? - FaceInTheCrowd - 08-01-2020
When Juliette turned hexenbiest Henrietta told Nick that his blood wouldn't work on her because it was already in Adalind (apparently having your hexenbiest removed by a grimm's blood is like getting the measles, you can't get it again after), and his choices were to accept her as she was or to kill her. IMO it was a bit of a plot hole that Nick never asked Henrietta if the blood of another grimm might work with the idea of getting Trubel to come back and make a donation if it might.
When Nick "became" Sean it was initially in woge mode and he needed coaching to calm down and get out of it, but during the fight both "Seans" woged and de-woged at will. So yes, Nick could woge as Sean, and by the time he got up to the roof for his one-on-one with the real Sean he had somehow gotten to the point where he could control it.
RE: Did the creative team screwed up the key & the Adalind getting back her Hex arcs? - Tish - 08-01-2020
(07-31-2020, 11:11 PM)dicappatore Wrote:Nick did voge during the rooftop fight after Sean did -- it was a little harder for him to do so, but he did it. I understand what you are saying about Nick not being able to heal Juliet with his blood -- but it sorta makes sense -- because they are connected now because of his Grimm blood being in her. I read fantasy novels as well -- and blood magic has a tendency to work like that. Blood magic doesn't just leave it has permanent side effects. It's probably also why Adalind and Nick could actually work together and live together without killing each other because they had neutralized each other's powers at one point (and that's me reading into a lot of the plot using how things like this works in the fantasy novels that I read -- not anything really that the writers put in the script).(07-31-2020, 02:37 PM)Tish Wrote: I love pulling plot lines a part...and analyzing what happened. Oh and debating with people who seem to watch a totally different show than me.I love it too. Unfortunately you will find out there are one or two contributors, (cough) here and there, on this board, when confronted with facts (scenes and scripts) to question their deductions, they will make up scenes and dialogue that did not exist to support their point of view. I can respect your observation such as you pointing out how Diana kicked the "Sean" out of Nick. I completely forgot about that scene.
But could have she kicked out the Hex out of Juliette? Juliette had no issues going back to being her self because she wasn't put in the situation to resist her becoming herself again. I need to go back to that episode to see if Nick was able to voge into a Zouberbiest when he was fighting Sean, as Sean on that rooftop fight.
I guess the same side effects didn't stick to Nick, him being a Grimm. What I didn't get is why Nick couldn't have removed the Hex out of Juliette as he did to Adalind, with the blood of a Grimm. The reasoning they gave us, of "IT' being done already, to that Hex lineage, was a bit too convenient and IMO, illogical.
I realize there are some on here that make things up to match what they wanted to see -- but that's what makes it fun. Because I really like reading what others THOUGHT they saw -- I was a pre law major that never made it to law school -- so sometimes I like to argue for the sake of arguing.