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+--- Thread: Meisner's ghost (/Thread-Meisner-s-ghost)
RE: Meisner's ghost - dicappatore - 01-01-2020
(01-01-2020, 10:07 AM)irukandji Wrote:(01-01-2020, 09:53 AM)N_grimm Wrote: Black Claw wanted to kill everyone who did not fit into their worldview – based on race and conviction, with world domination as the goal. You did not need Eve’s statement or the Swastika in order to draw the historical parallels. And if people lack historical knowledge, they can easily associate BC with the goals of modern terrorist organizations. The link to Hitler went all the way back to the films in Nick’s trailer showing Hitler and the Verrat shooting people in 1936. Meisner also worked for the Resistance, who opposed the Verrat. You can’t get Renard of the hook by saying you didn't see any Nazi uniforms. Not only did Renard knew, he tried to recruit Nick by defending their ideology.
I always thought the point of showing the Hitler films was to reveal him as a wesen. You feel this is a link to Hitler. I don't see it and none of the characters ever stated that Black Claw followed Hitler's doctrines.
Quote:I could give you serval examples of the trust between Renard and Meisner, but will focus on this this: The creative team, unlike you, knew all the details of Renard and Meisner background story. Trubel was close to Meisner - she was in tears when she found him dead. Could it be that Meisner had told Trubel about Renard? As Face correctly have pointed out, we have no clue if Meisner was Renard’s bodyguard. What we do know is that Renard’s statement is CONSISTENT with that made by Truble. Why would the writers repeat this message if it was false? It’s irrelevant whether you thought it was stupid, it was the storyline.
But here's the thing you completely forget. Meisner was the head of the satellite HW operations in Portland. HW fought against BC. Renard became a high level member of BC. HW was spying on BC. HW was spying on Renard. THAT was at Meisner's direction.
Meisner could have told Trubel that he once had an association with Renard. That could be part of the intel to spy on him. However, Trubel would never know that on her own because, well duh, she wasn't around when Renard was together with Meisner. Which, by the way had to do with the resistance, not HW. The two men would not be friends because they were a part of organizations who were enemies to one another.
Once Renard went over to BC, whatever relationship the two men had is evaporated, gone. For either one to associate with the other would have meant death for one or both.
Quote:Based on what we know, Meisner dedicated his life to fighting against organizations that posed a danger to society. He was not a terrorist, but portrayed as an unselfish hero – i.e. the complete opposite of Sean Renard. That’s why your theory about Meisner being the one who needed redemption is absurd. If Meisner needed to be redeemed, it would be included in the storyline! The writers were trying to tell a story, not hide it away from the viewers!
He was a terrorist, kidnapper, murderer, and he liked to brutalize women. That was obvious from his encounter with Eve. You think that because he delivered Adalind's baby, he's a good guy. Meisner was Renard's bodyguard, but it's not a stretch of the imagination to see that he's going with the side who pays him the most money.
Very bad man. He needs redemption. He came to Renard, not the other way around.
A better way to frustrate a cyber bully BS artist is to expose their idiocy-ty and in your case, you idiocy-ty is the brightest light, now on 2 forums. Damm, I am good, I just created the word IDIOCY-TY just for you.
Its one thing to be stubborn with your facts. It is another thing when you are stubborn about your incompetence. You are un-informed about the subject at hand. You are confused about what you have watched. You are clueless of whom you were conversing with on various forums. I am not talking about me, but about others, and you are still clueless.
You lack the ability to discuss history without the proper knowledge to have a leg to stand on. As a simple example, your comment about Hitler's goal of ethnic cleansing. If that is what you believe was his goal, what can I say? Watch the history channel for a few years and maybe even someone with such a feeble mind can get a clue.
BTW, Changing your signature from one idiotic statement to your new idiotic statement "The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him." is proof of your own hypocrisy. If you did ignore me, you wouldn't have changed it to such a hypercritical signature.
(01-01-2020, 11:21 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: I don't doubt that Renard supplied both Meisner and Sebastien with operating funds, in much the same way that the Allies in WWII supplied the French Resistance. But do you really think they did what they did for him solely because he managed to outbid the royals?
Face, I have disagreed with you in the past but at least you can make sense of your opinions. Do you really think the poster your are replying to has expressed any real thoughts in its comments? Or just blinded emotions?
RE: Meisner's ghost - N_grimm - 01-01-2020
(12-31-2019, 08:22 PM)izzy Wrote: No I did not abandon my own thread, I am still digesting the thoughtful commentary.
I just wanted to compliment the polite banter between FaceInTheCrowd and the Jellyfish.
And a very Happy New Year to all.
I almost forgot, Happy New Year!
(and I who thought the Grimm forum was dying..)
RE: Meisner's ghost - dicappatore - 01-01-2020
(01-01-2020, 11:07 AM)N_grimm Wrote: [quote='irukandji' pid='75912' dateline='1577898432']
He liked to brutalize women????? - I knew this had to relate to Juliette somehow...
So tell me, how shocking was it when you came up with this conclusion?
RE: Meisner's ghost - N_grimm - 01-01-2020
This is what Sasha Roiz had to say:
"It is definitely Renard’s Macbeth moment where he is haunted with everything from guilt to a literal ghost. It is very open to interpretation. Even I myself can’t say with any certainty if it was a literal haunting by a spirit or just something brought upon by his sense of guilt and subconscious. It was definitely something he was struggling with within himself".
RE: Meisner's ghost - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-01-2020
It's too bad they didn't have Sasha write the scripts for that...
RE: Meisner's ghost - dicappatore - 01-01-2020
(01-01-2020, 12:22 PM)N_grimm Wrote: This is what Sasha Roiz had to say:
"It is definitely Renard’s Macbeth moment where he is haunted with everything from guilt to a literal ghost. It is very open to interpretation. Even I myself can’t say with any certainty if it was a literal haunting by a spirit or just something brought upon by his sense of guilt and subconscious. It was definitely something he was struggling with within himself".
WTF does the actor, Sasha Roiz know about the character he played. He was only on set with a copy of the script to look over, and directed to play the Sean Renard character.
We are (COUGH) fortunate to be (cough, cough) ingratiated by the (cough, couch, clam spit), the omnipotent, all knowing, all seeing obscure spineless jelly-fish, with the ability to guide us from the darkness of knowledge to the light with extreme and excruciating ability of diarrhea of the typed word.
RE: Meisner's ghost - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-01-2020
I think we could reasonably say that Renard was unsure of what was going on at the time, or may have been in denial; do we know whether Renard even believed in ghost hauntings before Meisner started his appearances? But by the time Meisner showed up to warn Renard that there was an ambush waiting for him in the PPB garage and then blurred the vision of one of his attackers, the matter was settled. Which was reflected in Renard later telling Trubel that Meisner knew he had come over to the scooby side.
RE: Meisner's ghost - irukandji - 01-01-2020
(01-01-2020, 11:07 AM)N_grimm Wrote: He liked to brutalize women????? - I knew this had to relate to Juliette somehow...
No, it relates to Meisner. Get the characters straight. I don't recall him showing any discomfort or regret when he slapped her. Did you?
(01-01-2020, 11:07 AM)N_grimm Wrote: When Trubel later said: “I wish Meisner knew”, Renard responded: “believe me, he does”. This had nothing to do with Meisner needing redemption.Again, you apparently failed to read Izzy's initial post. Let me reiterate one of his questions, AGAIN, for you:
""What was the real purpose of the Meisner ghost?""
What I wrote was a purpose I could see for the ghost. You apparently believe you somehow have to change my mind.
The whole point of the thread (which again you apparently missed), is that the real point of Meisner's ghost is not clear cut.
I don't believe Meisner simply decided to haunt Renard at his own discretion. If he and Bonaparte were somewhere, (presumably hell), then it stands to reason that a higher power brought him back to haunt Renard into joining the right side.
You want to believe Meisner to be a just and upright man. That's your prerogative. I do not see him that way, simply because he delivered Adalind's baby and then she kissed his cheek in return. I'm not a big Adalind fan, but I am so glad the creative team did not decide to pair her up with that monster.
The man was evil. He could have easily been the one that needed redemption. That is my thought on what the real purpose of the Meisner ghost is.
RE: Meisner's ghost - dicappatore - 01-01-2020
(01-01-2020, 07:05 PM)irukandji Wrote:(01-01-2020, 11:07 AM)N_grimm Wrote: He liked to brutalize women????? - I knew this had to relate to Juliette somehow...
No, it relates to Meisner. Get the characters straight. I don't recall him showing any discomfort or regret when he slapped her. Did you?
(01-01-2020, 11:07 AM)N_grimm Wrote: When Trubel later said: “I wish Meisner knew”, Renard responded: “believe me, he does”. This had nothing to do with Meisner needing redemption.Again, you apparently failed to read Izzy's initial post. Let me reiterate one of his questions, AGAIN, for you:
""What was the real purpose of the Meisner ghost?""
What I wrote was a purpose I could see for the ghost. You apparently believe you somehow have to change my mind.
The whole point of the thread (which again you apparently missed), is that the real point of Meisner's ghost is not clear cut.
I don't believe Meisner simply decided to haunt Renard at his own discretion. If he and Bonaparte were somewhere, (presumably hell), then it stands to reason that a higher power brought him back to haunt Renard into joining the right side.
You want to believe Meisner to be a just and upright man. That's your prerogative. I do not see him that way, simply because he delivered Adalind's baby and then she kissed his cheek in return. I'm not a big Adalind fan, but I am so glad the creative team did not decide to pair her up with that monster.
The man was evil. He could have easily been the one that needed redemption. That is my thought on what the real purpose of the Meisner ghost is.
Frustration - Finding out for the 1st time, you couldn't do it the 2nd time.
Panic - Finding out for the 2nd time, you couldn't do it the 1st time.
N, the elusive jelly-fish is in total panic mode since she can't convince you of them delusional interpretations..
Bro, I have to introduce you to a fellow GrimmPower.
RE: Meisner's ghost - irukandji - 01-02-2020
(01-01-2020, 11:21 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: I don't doubt that Renard supplied both Meisner and Sebastien with operating funds, in much the same way that the Allies in WWII supplied the French Resistance. But do you really think they did what they did for him solely because he managed to outbid the royals?
I'm assuming he didn't know either of them prior to their relationship, so I would have to say, yes. That would be the sole reason why they worked for him. Any relationship with him would come later. Money usually talks first and loudest.