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+--- Thread: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? (/Thread-what-was-the-worst-betrayal-that-happened-during-the-show)
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - dicappatore - 05-24-2019
(05-23-2019, 04:34 PM)irukandji Wrote:(05-23-2019, 02:30 PM)N_grimm Wrote: Nick was the Grimm and the hero. Monroe/Rosalee were Nick’s wesen helpers. Hank and Wu were Nick’s police partners. In season 5 and 6 Adalind was Nick’s love interest/girlfriend and Renard the evil captain/villain. But what was Eve? She was a sort of mysterious figure that was given “random” functions depending on the circumstances. I always had the impression that the creators didn’t really know how to use her in the storyline and that she was only brought back because of Bitsie's relationship with DG. I didn’t dislike Juliette before she turned evil, but I found the Eve character strange.
Nick is a main character in Grimm, but he isn't the only one.
Monroe/Rosalee-I can actually see a combination of supporting characters/main characters, depending on the story line.
Hank/Wu-I can see them as supporting characters.
Renard-definitely a main character.
Adalind-I still have to stick with supporting character on this one. It seemed her purpose during the first four seasons was at first, villainess under Renard's guidance, then subordinate villainess to the royals. The last two seasons, she was there as mother to Nick's baby.
Juliette-I can see her as a supporting character, but she also was often a main character in her own right, depending on the story.
Eve-definitely a main character all the way.
Diana-While Diana really came onto the scene late in the series, she is also definitely a main character.
Bud-supporting character.
Trubel-supporting character.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2f-MZ2HRHQ
I get called a bully when I correct someone yet some make it so easily wanting to be corrected or as some define "corrected" as being bullied. Let us look at this quote.
(05-23-2019, 04:34 PM)irukandji Wrote: Nick is a main character in Grimm, but he isn't the only one.
This is almost as ridiculous as saying 1st isn't 1st all the time. Sometimes 2nd or 3rd or 4th, is 1st. In Grimm, there is ONLY one main character. PERIOD!
According to Merriam Webster, By definition:
Definition of main
main noun\ ˈmān\
1 : physical strength : force —used in the phrase with might and main The next instant we were away down the river, clawing with might and main to keep out of the woods.— Mark Twain
2a : mainland
b : high sea
3 : the chief part : essential point they are in the main well-trained
4 : a pipe, duct, or circuit which carries the combined flow of tributary branches of a utility system
5a : mainmast
b : mainsail
Obviously, the definition that applies to this particular use is item #3 "the chief part".
Time to wake up and smell the coffee (cough-ee). There never was nor there will ever be any shared main characters in the past TV Series Grimm. Maybe if there is a spin-off it can be written as a shared main characters but the show in question on this forum was not it.
Spin it, flip it, turn it upside down to your heart's content. No matter how you try to say it, in the end, you are wrong. There was only one main character, and it was Nick. This is not an opinion, it is a fact! CIAO!
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - irukandji - 05-24-2019
(05-23-2019, 06:15 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Monroe was originally cast as the sidekick, i.e., Robin, Tonto, Dr. Watson, etc.
Rosalee, like Adalind, was originally cast as a recurring/guest character and was "promoted" to series regular after she and Monroe merged into "Monrosalee."
And both were interesting and intelligent enough to be involved in their own stories, not just being conveniently available to help Nick 24/7. If that had been the case, it would have been really boring.
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - N_grimm - 05-24-2019
(05-23-2019, 04:34 PM)irukandji Wrote: Nick is a main character in Grimm, but he isn't the only one.
Monroe/Rosalee-I can actually see a combination of supporting characters/main characters, depending on the story line.
Hank/Wu-I can see them as supporting characters.
Renard-definitely a main character.
Adalind-I still have to stick with supporting character on this one. It seemed her purpose during the first four seasons was at first, villainess under Renard's guidance, then subordinate villainess to the royals. The last two seasons, she was there as mother to Nick's baby.
Juliette-I can see her as a supporting character, but she also was often a main character in her own right, depending on the story.
Eve-definitely a main character all the way.
Diana-While Diana really came onto the scene late in the series, she is also definitely a main character.
Bud-supporting character.
Trubel-supporting character.
Supporting characters can have stuff going on in the storyline that isn’t directly related to the main characters, that does not make them main characters. In Grimm it was only Nick.
If you Google Grimm it says: "The series' narrative follows Portland Homicide detective Nick Burkhardt (played by David Giuntoli), who discovers he is a Grimm, the latest in a line of guardians who are sworn to keep the balance between humanity and mythological creatures, known as Wesen. The series features a supporting cast consisting of Russell Hornsby, Bitsie Tulloch, Silas Weir Mitchell, Sasha Roiz, Reggie Lee, Bree Turner, and Claire Coffee".
And then we have the this (from the shows intro in season 2):
“There once was a man who lived a life so strange it had to be true. Only he could see what no one else can: the darkness inside, the real monster within. And he's the one who must stop them. This is his calling, this is his duty - this is the life of a Grimm”.
Or to put it even clearer: Nick was the only character who couldn't be written out of the storyline without the series having to be canceled.
Diana a main character? She has a tiny tiny role. How much time did she spend on screen in total? I don’t know, 15 minutes? As for Juliette/Eve, she was not even in every episode and in many episodes, she only shows up for a few minutes. Bud and Trouble are not even part of the regular cast.
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - eric - 05-24-2019
(05-20-2019, 05:31 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Adalind's apology ended up as a deleted scene in episode 510.
Finally got a chance to look at the deleted apology scene. While she did say "I'm sorry", she didn't list the people present she had harmed - Nick, Hank, Wu. She also didn't mention Juliette/Eve. I guess what she did say was okay for the needs of the show - no need to wallow in guilt - but based on my experience a little more verbiage would have been nice. Of course, it never was in the show, so I guess I'm just a nit picker.
For good comedy, the deleted scene when Hank was trying to decide if he should take a cookie was really funny
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RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - N_grimm - 05-24-2019
(05-24-2019, 03:26 PM)eric Wrote:(05-20-2019, 05:31 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Adalind's apology ended up as a deleted scene in episode 510.
Finally got a chance to look at the deleted apology scene. While she did say "I'm sorry", she didn't list the people present she had harmed - Nick, Hank, Wu. She also didn't mention Juliette/Eve. I guess what she did say was okay for the needs of the show - no need to wallow in guilt - but based on my experience a little more verbiage would have been nice. Of course, it never was in the show, so I guess I'm just a nit picker.
For good comedy, the deleted scene when Hank was trying to decide if he should take a cookie was really funny
She apologized to everyone present, i.e. Nick, Hank, Wu, Monroe and Rosalee. This happened in season 5, when Eve was still an emotionless robot. She apologized to Eve in season 6 and she expressed regret for the things she did to Nick on several occasions.
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - irukandji - 05-24-2019
Also from wikipedia under List of Grimm characters:
Quote:Main characters
Actor Character Seasons
1 2 3 4 5 6
David Giuntoli Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt/GRIMM Main
Russell Hornsby Hank Griffin Main
Bitsie Tulloch Juliette Silverton / Eve Main
Silas Weir Mitchell Monroe/blutbad Main
Sasha Roiz Captain Sean Renard/zauberbiest Main
Reggie Lee Sergeant Drew Wu Main
Bree Turner Rosalee Calvert/fuchsbau Recurring Main
Claire Coffee Adalind Schade/hexenbiest Recurring Main
If you'll notice, even Claire Coffee is listed as a main character.
(05-24-2019, 03:26 PM)eric Wrote: Finally got a chance to look at the deleted apology scene. While she did say "I'm sorry", she didn't list the people present she had harmed - Nick, Hank, Wu. She also didn't mention Juliette/Eve. I guess what she did say was okay for the needs of the show - no need to wallow in guilt - but based on my experience a little more verbiage would have been nice. Of course, it never was in the show, so I guess I'm just a nit picker.
For good comedy, the deleted scene when Hank was trying to decide if he should take a cookie was really funny
I just watched it too. Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought she was supposed to be crying? I heard a catch in her voice, but didn't really see anything that would amount to crying. So Adalind says she's sorry and Nick says she's trying to say Thank you. Hmmmm.....I can see why they deleted this scene. Her apology to Eve was more sincere, even though it was obvious Eve didn't buy it.
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - N_grimm - 05-25-2019
(05-24-2019, 07:16 PM)irukandji Wrote: Also from wikipedia under List of Grimm characters:
Quote:Main characters
Actor Character Seasons
1 2 3 4 5 6
David Giuntoli Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt/GRIMM Main
Russell Hornsby Hank Griffin Main
Bitsie Tulloch Juliette Silverton / Eve Main
Silas Weir Mitchell Monroe/blutbad Main
Sasha Roiz Captain Sean Renard/zauberbiest Main
Reggie Lee Sergeant Drew Wu Main
Bree Turner Rosalee Calvert/fuchsbau Recurring Main
Claire Coffee Adalind Schade/hexenbiest Recurring Main
If you'll notice, even Claire Coffee is listed as a main character.
(05-24-2019, 03:26 PM)eric Wrote: Finally got a chance to look at the deleted apology scene. While she did say "I'm sorry", she didn't list the people present she had harmed - Nick, Hank, Wu. She also didn't mention Juliette/Eve. I guess what she did say was okay for the needs of the show - no need to wallow in guilt - but based on my experience a little more verbiage would have been nice. Of course, it never was in the show, so I guess I'm just a nit picker.
For good comedy, the deleted scene when Hank was trying to decide if he should take a cookie was really funny
I just watched it too. Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought she was supposed to be crying? I heard a catch in her voice, but didn't really see anything that would amount to crying. So Adalind says she's sorry and Nick says she's trying to say Thank you. Hmmmm.....I can see why they deleted this scene. Her apology to Eve was more sincere, even though it was obvious Eve didn't buy it.
When I use the term main character, I’m referring to the protagonist. That’s Nick and only Nick. This list gives no meaning, since it’s basically saying that every regular character is a main character.
That scene is very credible. Eve did not bye it? Eve had just been rolled out of the tunnel in some sort of mental unstable condition. She hardy talked. What makes you believe she didn’t bye it. As soon as she got better, she constantly contacted Adalind for help to get over to the “other side”. They even sat down and drank vine together. I have no clue what you base these claims on.
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - dicappatore - 05-25-2019
(05-25-2019, 02:54 AM)N_grimm Wrote:(05-24-2019, 07:16 PM)irukandji Wrote: Also from wikipedia under List of Grimm characters:
Quote:Main characters
Actor Character Seasons
1 2 3 4 5 6
David Giuntoli Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt/GRIMM Main
Russell Hornsby Hank Griffin Main
Bitsie Tulloch Juliette Silverton / Eve Main
Silas Weir Mitchell Monroe/blutbad Main
Sasha Roiz Captain Sean Renard/zauberbiest Main
Reggie Lee Sergeant Drew Wu Main
Bree Turner Rosalee Calvert/fuchsbau Recurring Main
Claire Coffee Adalind Schade/hexenbiest Recurring Main
If you'll notice, even Claire Coffee is listed as a main character.
(05-24-2019, 03:26 PM)eric Wrote: Finally got a chance to look at the deleted apology scene. While she did say "I'm sorry", she didn't list the people present she had harmed - Nick, Hank, Wu. She also didn't mention Juliette/Eve. I guess what she did say was okay for the needs of the show - no need to wallow in guilt - but based on my experience a little more verbiage would have been nice. Of course, it never was in the show, so I guess I'm just a nit picker.
For good comedy, the deleted scene when Hank was trying to decide if he should take a cookie was really funny
I just watched it too. Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought she was supposed to be crying? I heard a catch in her voice, but didn't really see anything that would amount to crying. So Adalind says she's sorry and Nick says she's trying to say Thank you. Hmmmm.....I can see why they deleted this scene. Her apology to Eve was more sincere, even though it was obvious Eve didn't buy it.
When I use the term main character, I’m referring to the protagonist. That’s Nick and only Nick. This list gives no meaning, since it’s basically saying that every regular character is a main character.
That scene is very credible. Eve did not bye it? Eve had just been rolled out of the tunnel in some sort of mental unstable condition. She hardy talked. What makes you believe she didn’t bye it. As soon as she got better, she constantly contacted Adalind for help to get over to the “other side”. They even sat down and drank vine together. I have no clue what you base these claims on.
1st off N, some seem to confuse the meaning of what a main character is and what are main supporting cast, as opposed to plain supporting cast.
On the apology matter. Say what ever some may say about Adalind's sincerity. Sincere enough or not, what ever it was, it was a lot more sincere then Juliette's.
Oh Wait, Juliette never apologized at all. She was gone. Disappeared. As Eve, all she did was save Nick and his crew! <-----(SARCASM just in case some don't get it)
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - irukandji - 05-25-2019
(05-25-2019, 02:54 AM)N_grimm Wrote: When I use the term main character, I’m referring to the protagonist. That’s Nick and only Nick. This list gives no meaning, since it’s basically saying that every regular character is a main character.
Laughs. And I get accused of twisting things.
So let's see. You can quote from Wikipedia to suit your thoughts, but if I do, then my information has no meaning. Is that it?
Then, for the first time, you throw out the word, 'protagonist', and claim Nick is the protagonist. Every other character in the series gets lumped into a Tonto-like characterization.
You made a remark because I called Diana a main character. Yet you consider Monroe, Rosalee, and the rest as supporting characters who, if I'm interpreting your post correctly, would be on the same level as Diana. In other words, Nick's "helpers". I did find it funny that with this detailed explanation of yours, you weren't able to classify Juliette or Eve?
Okay then. I don't agree, but thanks for giving me an understanding of the completes as well as the "incompletes" of where you are coming from.
(05-25-2019, 02:54 AM)N_grimm Wrote: That scene is very credible. Eve did not bye it? Eve had just been rolled out of the tunnel in some sort of mental unstable condition. She hardy talked. What makes you believe she didn’t bye it. As soon as she got better, she constantly contacted Adalind for help to get over to the “other side”. They even sat down and drank vine together. I have no clue what you base these claims on.
No Eve did not "bye" it. I said it was obvious Eve didn't "buy" it.
I understood you to be among the posters who felt Adalind had a terrible childhood, that her mother cruelly cast her out and wanted nothing more to do with her. So she had nothing. If that's the case, where then would Adalind learn to make a believable apology? I think Adalind was sincere. That came across to me as the viewer.
But Eve's reaction was much less positive, and she apparently didn't care for the apology. Otherwise she would have acknowledged it. A simple statement, like "you're forgiven" or "I believe you" would have sufficed. But she said nothing.
The apology fell completely flat despite the sincerity behind it. Eve apparently didn't like it as much as she liked Adalind's wine or enlisting her help to deal with Z in the other side.
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - N_grimm - 05-25-2019
(05-25-2019, 07:23 AM)irukandji Wrote:(05-25-2019, 02:54 AM)N_grimm Wrote: When I use the term main character, I’m referring to the protagonist. That’s Nick and only Nick. This list gives no meaning, since it’s basically saying that every regular character is a main character.
Laughs. And I get accused of twisting things.
So let's see. You can quote from Wikipedia to suit your thoughts, but if I do, then my information has no meaning. Is that it?
Then, for the first time, you throw out the word, 'protagonist', and claim Nick is the protagonist. Every other character in the series gets lumped into a Tonto-like characterization.
You made a remark because I called Diana a main character. Yet you consider Monroe, Rosalee, and the rest as supporting characters who, if I'm interpreting your post correctly, would be on the same level as Diana. In other words, Nick's "helpers". I did find it funny that with this detailed explanation of yours, you weren't able to classify Juliette or Eve?
Okay then. I don't agree, but thanks for giving me an understanding of the completes as well as the "incompletes" of where you are coming from.
Stop laughing! I’m not the one twisting here. I’m simply explaining that when I use the term main character, I’m referring to the protagonist i.e. Nick. By quoting the description of the show, the opening theme of season 2 and explain my argument in detail in several previous posts, it should be impossible to misunderstand my point.
These terms are synonyms. I could also use the term “lead character”, “central character” or the shows “hero”. My point is, and have always been, that Nick is nr. 1 and the others supporting cast. If you want to use the term main character for every regular member of the show, that does not change anything regarding my point. If I only used the term main character, without explain it, I could (MAYBE) see where you where coming from, but I have explained this in severals posts already.
If you read my previous post you would see that my point was exactly that characters like Diana, Bud and Troble can’t be compared to the regular cast, like Monroe, Rosalee or even Eve – not even close. So, I do not understand why you claim I’m placing them on the “same level as Diana”.
If you kill Nick, the show must be canceled. If you kill off any other character, the show can go on. That’s what makes Nick special. To claim that this is not the case is equivalent to saying that Batman is not the most important character in Batman, that Robin Hood is not the most important character in Robin Hood or that Sherlock Holmes is not the most important character in Sherlock Holmes. The show is called Grimm and Nick is the only regular Grimm on the show.
(05-25-2019, 07:23 AM)irukandji Wrote: No Eve did not "bye" it. I said it was obvious Eve didn't "buy" it.
It's a typo, I know what you meant. How could she say "I forgive you" when she refused to be Juliette? Eve was not Juliette. If you claim she had the ability to forgive, you must also ask yourself: why did SHE not apologize for her crimes?